Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 2:32 AM EST
In response to notin's comment:
Ellsburys trade appeal right now is probably limited to Texas and Atlanta. He is not as good as Choo but options are getting limited. Forget aboutAndrus. Texas would not trade him for 3years of Upton.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 2:38 AM EST
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 3:51 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
This team will not win anything this year...
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
I am interested in your guys' takes...
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 3:58 AM EST
In response to Softlaw1's comment:
No fascination here. He should be shipped out in a pool of players that nets the DBAcks what they want for J. Upton. That pool should be:
Ellsbury and his draft compensation (to a team like Texas or Atlanta to send a player like Holland to AZ)
De La Rosa or Webster
Brentz (subtract Brentz and insert Bogaerts if needed to top other offers)
Any other prospect from the farm except Barnes and Bradley, Jr.
Total 4 prospects should close the deal and get the parties what they want. Ellsbury is not a fit for the Red Sox with nearly 40M unloeaded on Shane who is truly a value joke in RF. Ellsbury is a fit for the Braves or the Rangers and allows them a trial run before deciding to bid on him in FA. J. Upton fits best in LF for the Red Sox, long term.
They will want Middlebrooks, one of Lester/Doubront/ Buch, and then you can add Bogaerts and one of Barnes/Webster/ Rubby...They get 2 of the 3 they want. MLB ready pitcher and 3b with a stud SS prospect and another solid pitching prospect.
Thats way too much for 3 years of the inconsistent with "monster potential" Justin Upton...Your offer is not realistic for what AZ needs and is asking for, No matter what you think.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 4:06 AM EST
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 5:20 AM EST
In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 5:33 AM EST
In response to southpaw777's comment:
In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
I really like his defense as well but, is the current RS offense one that they can bury Iggy's lack of BA in? He did end the year hitting the ball hard but right at people, maybe lightning will strike and he will figure out how to get some to drop in.
You can't really talk about batting avg. or power with Iglesias in the conversation. Just sayin'.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 5:40 AM EST
In response to never1954's comment:
In response to southpaw777's comment:
In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
I really like his defense as well but, is the current RS offense one that they can bury Iggy's lack of BA in? He did end the year hitting the ball hard but right at people, maybe lightning will strike and he will figure out how to get some to drop in.
You can't really talk about batting avg. or power with Iglesias in the conversation. Just sayin'.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 5:51 AM EST
In response to southpaw777's comment:
In response to never1954's comment:
In response to southpaw777's comment:
In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
I really like his defense as well but, is the current RS offense one that they can bury Iggy's lack of BA in? He did end the year hitting the ball hard but right at people, maybe lightning will strike and he will figure out how to get some to drop in.
You can't really talk about batting avg. or power with Iglesias in the conversation. Just sayin'.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 8:59 AM EST
I think the FO would agree with this post that's why they shopped him around. As most of you all are saying his value is low at the moment. Not sure if teams want to give up a top line starter or their best prospects for a guy who has had only one really sensational year and I don't care what Boras says Ells spends too much time on the DL. Freak injuries or not.
The goal may be let Ells stay and hopefully he plays well. If Sox are in contention at the ALL-STAR break they keep him and add pieces, if Sox are where they were this year he'll be dealt.
Either way he needs to have a stud year. It's a contract year so we will see him play through broken finger nails.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:16 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
He does present a draft pick possibility at the season's end, but all the more urgent is that he is a respectable warm body in CF and running the bases. He may never have his MVP-run year numbers again and he may also be injured again for a lenghty time ... in which case, his draft pick possibility may lessen.
This team will not win anything this year...
It is short-sighted to think of only this season but we may indeed win. Not being a rose-colored bespectacled fan, just noticing the fact that the supposed uber teams of the last number of years have been anything but ... and surprise teams have come to the top instead. Yep, it would be a surprise, but you do like surprises, don't you?
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
By all accounts, the Red Sox, the Phillies and Eagles should have run away with their leagues a short while ago. Let's let history be made on the field, not in the minds of "great thinkers"
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
There's the rub. Healthy ... he isn't very often. Thus his value is greatly diminished.
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
Not so. You and I are chasing a dog around a tree here. If the season starts and he is healthy up to the trade deadline, he is much more valuable. And that bites both ways, depending on what one wants. It increases his trade value but also the cost of re-signing him.
I am interested in your guys' takes...
All things considered, he is still our starting CFer and we need one. His on base fun with Victorino will also be very interesting.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:21 AM EST
In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
Ellsbury in 2011 was better than Pedroia - not even close.
Pedroia had a great season 5 years ago nad that season was not as good as ellsbury in 2011.
Last year Pedroia was not very good and boasted a lousy attitude as well. Ellsbury was hurt. But there is no team in MLB that would take Pedroia over ellsbury.
Before one makes this claim, one best know the needs of any team. Your statement, by virtue of over reaching, is simply not necessarily true.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:31 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
This team will not win anything this year...
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
I am interested in your guys' takes...
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:37 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
This team will not win anything this year...
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
I am interested in your guys' takes...
That's what the topic is all about. If we have no chance, then Ells certainly should've been traded.
But then, Papi should not have be re-signed, no FAs should've been signed, and anyone with a contract ending in 2013 or 2014 should've been traded.
I happen to think we have a chance, and I think Ellsbury will be motivated to have a great year.
Having said that, while not knowing enough about Bauer's issues with AZ, unless they are insurmountable, I'd have made the trade, played Vic in CF, and signed a short-termer for RF.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:37 AM EST
In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
Ellsbury in 2011 was better than Pedroia - not even close.
Pedroia had a great season 5 years ago nad that season was not as good as ellsbury in 2011.
Last year Pedroia was not very good and boasted a lousy attitude as well. Ellsbury was hurt. But there is no team in MLB that would take Pedroia over ellsbury.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:39 AM EST
In response to pinstripezac's comment:
In response to Iceman4's comment:
I would like to keep him......I think he will have a great year this year. I just don't think the Sox will be able to sign him.
The issue isn't that we can't re-sign him, but with JBJ around, we have no reason to.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:42 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
This team will not win anything this year...
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
I am interested in your guys' takes...
I cant believe how many people are already conceding the 2013 season. We have a much better team than Oak, Bal. Sure, we arent quite as good as Det or LAA; however, we can certainly beat them in a 7 game series.
All that matters is getting in. We are good enough to compete for one of 5 spots.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 9:48 AM EST
In response to Wolfpack13's comment:
I think the FO would agree with this post that's why they shopped him around. As most of you all are saying his value is low at the moment. Not sure if teams want to give up a top line starter or their best prospects for a guy who has had only one really sensational year and I don't care what Boras says Ells spends too much time on the DL. Freak injuries or not.
The goal may be let Ells stay and hopefully he plays well. If Sox are in contention at the ALL-STAR break they keep him and add pieces, if Sox are where they were this year he'll be dealt.
Either way he needs to have a stud year. It's a contract year so we will see him play through broken finger nails.
Also: there is a real chance that the sox are in the hunt come the deadline.
This post has been removed.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 10:37 AM EST
In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...
This team will not win anything this year...
Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...
The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...
Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...
But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...
I am interested in your guys' takes...
Also our OF line up so far is not very deep Gomes, Nava, Kalish, Ellsbury, Victorino, plus other propsects to look at this season that may get the opportunity to be in the majors Sands, Brentz, or Bradley Jr. The Red Sox has abundance of OF prospects waiting for the big leap. Even though I like Ellsbury, I think he will be traded at deadline time.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 11:19 AM EST
1st off this TEAM has a chance to do very well. If the Lesters , Buchholzs, and Ellsburys do what thy r capable of they can win 90ish games. I said IF. If not then we at least hope Ellsbury is doing well and trade him for a couple chips and possilbly Lester. That would leave us with a great nucleus of young talent which seems to be where we r leaning.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 11:27 AM EST
In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop.
This post has been removed.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 12:33 PM EST
In response to jb12bb's comment:
I think the RS should ship him to Texas for Andrus and one of their top pitching prospects. Texas is in need of a CF and a leadoff hitter. Boston would love to put Andrus with Peddy for the next couple years. While developing another arm in a ever building farm system.
Texas has the money to resign Ellsbury long term, and boston finally has a SS they can see play for more then a year.
Victorino could play CF till Bradley is ready and Swisher could be signed to play RF.
Thats an overall better team then what they have now.
On a related note, ship Iglesias to Miami for a bullpen arm.
Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?
posted at 12/15/2012 12:34 PM EST
This team will not win anything this year...
That's what the topic is all about. If we have no chance, then Ells certainly should've been traded.
But then, Papi should not have be re-signed, no FAs should've been signed, and anyone with a contract ending in 2013 or 2014 should've been traded.
I happen to think we have a chance, and I think Ellsbury will be motivated to have a great year.
Having said that, while not knowing enough about Bauer's issues with AZ, unless they are insurmountable, I'd have made the trade, played Vic in CF, and signed a short-termer for RF.
A good summary of the issue at hand on this thread.
Do you really think we have even a 1 in 30 chance of winning a ring in 2013?
I see so many teams with vastly superior rosters than ours and other teams with close to the same as ours but with better pitching.
I try to stay optimistic and have overprojected our team's success over the last 3-4 years, but I just don't see much of a hope this year, unless about 10 things all go right at the same time. To me, we have less than a 1& chance of winning as we sgtand now. To me, that means we should have traded Ellsbury, let Papi walk, and traded all other FAs to be after 2013 and players who do not factor into our longer term plans.
I don't think most of the fans would have mutinied had we signed some younger FAs and made a big trade to bring us a player like J Upton or Myers (Stanton as a long shot chance) and Brett Anderson. Players like these could have helped us in 2013, but also be on the rise by 2014 and beyond... not in projected age-related decline.
