Why do we need to keep losing?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Why do we need to keep losing?

    Here is why: we need to maintain at least position #10 in the draft. Here's the explanation:

    The top 10 picks in the draft are "protected," meaning that a team need not forfeit such a pick if signing a free agent who receives a one-year qualifying offer (roughly $13 million) from the team with whom he spent all of 2012. Picks outside of the top 10 are not protected.

    Say the Red Sox wanted to sign Josh Hamilton, a player who is certain to receive a one-year qualifying offer from the Rangers. If the Sox had the No. 10 pick in the first round of the 2013 draft, the selection would be protected. And so, the Sox only would give up their second-round selection -- a spot that likely would fall somewhere around the No. 45 overall selection in the draft -- for signing Hamilton.

    But, if the Sox are sitting at the No. 11 spot in the draft, the pick is unprotected. Signing a free agent like Hamilton would cost the Sox the No. 11 overall pick.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Exactly right PG...Also, there is an outside chance if they keep losing they could get as close as #4. The top three are out of reach, but a top #5 pick is not out of the question...

    The Cubs, Astros, and Rockies, barring a complete turnaround, have the 1-2-3 locked up.

    The Sox are tied with NYM, 4 percentage pts ahead of Jays, 10 ahead of Miami, 34 ahead of Twins and 36 ahead of Indians.

    Right now were in a tie for #9 with the Mets, but the teams in front of us are still within reach of getting a higher pick.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Giving teams this much incentive to lose is not good for the game.  Other teams are affected by the results of our games.  You still have to try to win.  Obviously we're losing most of the time anyway.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    I understand the main point of the thread, but I hope they stay away from Hamilton. I just don't think this guy with all his baggage could be allowed to have a slump in a Red Sox uniform.

    Reason #1: First time he goes 0-4 or makes an error I can see the media bringing up the alcohol problems. Considering the "beer and chicken" b*llsh*t , I would say Hamilton is a bad fit right off the bat.

    Reason #2: He's probably going to ask for a long term deal, he's around the same age as Crawford. We don't need another albatross contract to have to dump when the guy gets hurt, we have had enough injury prone players and albatross contracts ( Drew, Crawford, Gonzalez, Matsuzaka, Beckett, Lackey) Older players tend to get more injuries unless they are named Ellsbury...who was injury prone at a younger age.

    Reason #3: The ball carries well in Texas. Players who move from Texas to colder climates will suffer a loss in power numbers. When that happens here with Hamilton...see reason #1.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Never a fan of the Red Sox ever losing any games, but with this season pretty well shot since early June another reason for a better draft position is that the same draft order procedure is repeated in each and every round of the draft.

    It only makes sense that there will be at least slightly better picks available at position number 8 in each round than in position number 11 in each round

    Hopefully, the Red Sox do not fall into this situation again in my lifetime, but if you are here now it only makes sense to gain as much as possible while you are here.

    Let Matsuzaka pitch a few more games and the Sox may end up picking 7th or 8th.  Don't hold him back at any time. He never pitches much more than four innings at a time so he shouldn't be tired at any point.   I think that he should get at least two (I'd rather see three) more starts before he drifts out of Boston for good.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Agreeing with other posters, I am not sure that I would even talk to Hamilton when he hits free agency.  Just too much gamble with his health, his assorted other issues, the amount of money it is likley to take to sign him, and possibly having to give up a first round draft pick as well.

    In fact, I am not sure that I would be any too seriously pursuing any other big money free agents this winter either.  It may well be time to get away from that theory/concept of trying to buid a team as it certainly has not worked well lately.  Just about every team who has gone in that direction in the last few years is very worried about what they will pay for towards the ends of these long term, high dollar contracts.

    Even the Yankees are worried about paying ARod for those last 3-4 years at $25 (?) million per year.  I would guess that the Angels will feel the same way about Pulhols in about five years, too.  The Tigers are likely to see the same thing happen with Fielder although he is little younger and only has a seven year contract.

    I would rather see the Red Sox pay a little more per year to various free agents and hold the line at two or three years of contract length for any guy in his late 20s and to one or two years for guys in their 30s.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    I think Hamilton was just being used as an example. No one really wants to sign him long term, and he isn't going to go for a 2-3 year deal on the cheap. The point is that here is a case where it makes a lot of sense to hope we lose as only the top 10 picks are protected. If we sign a top FA pitcher we pick #45, probably, or thereabouts, if our pick is not top 10.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Another reason the Sox keep losing is that they do not play very good fundamental baseball under Valentine.

    Completely gave away a run to the Orioles early in the game by trying to pick off a guy who was all of three feet off first and then not even having the cut off man in place to prevent the hitter from going to second.

    These are basic things that middle school kids should not make mistakes on and here is a major league team letting these types of things happen in the 150th game of the year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Remaining games: Baltimore x4, one at home; Rays x2 at home; Yankees x3 away. Its entirely conceivable that we could win only a game or two of our remaining games, thereby securing a protected top 10 draft pick. Small consolation for having to endure this season, but consolation nonetheless. First order of business has to be firing Valentine the day after the season ends. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    I'm a newly recruited fan of the Marlins and Royals I'm hoping they win all of their remaining games while this sox team keeps losing. It would give the Sox a competitive advantage for the off season. Just think of drafting in the top ten! Not to count going after whichever free agent they want without losing a 1rst round pick.Sorry about my temporary defection to the Marlins and Royals,I'll come back to the team next season.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I'm a newly recruited fan of the Marlins and Royals I'm hoping they win all of their remaining games while this sox team keeps losing. It would give the Sox a competitive advantage for the off season. Just think of drafting in the top ten! Not to count going after whichever free agent they want without losing a 1rst round pick.Sorry about my temporary defection to the Marlins and Royals,I'll come back to the team next season.


    I would have slammed you, but I'm kind of cheering for the Athletics the rest of the way.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm a newly recruited fan of the Marlins and Royals I'm hoping they win all of their remaining games while this sox team keeps losing. It would give the Sox a competitive advantage for the off season. Just think of drafting in the top ten! Not to count going after whichever free agent they want without losing a 1rst round pick.Sorry about my temporary defection to the Marlins and Royals,I'll come back to the team next season.

     

     

    As you, I have other MLB teams fro whom to root... the A's & Giants.

    I have been a loyal Boston teams fan, Sox, Celtics & Pats, all my life as 1st 21 years were in Maine. But with last 45 in SF I have been a local fan too. There are some fanatical fans who believe one should only be loyal to one team or state/region’s teams all their lives. I guess had I stayed in New England all my life I would have been. But it seems the only positive reasons to root for Sox is that they could be spoilers or continue to lose to get better draft picks. But can’t a man have more than one love ? I like the A’s too across the Bay & wanted so badly for them to beat the hated Yankees but I was a bit angry they’ve blown 2 games they could have won. But, and wouldn't the Sox love their pitching as the Giants will win the division tonight & Dodgers with former Sox won’t even make the playoffs. I’ll root for the Pats but also  I have a pretty good backup team to keep up my NFL hopes, the 49ers !!!  And the Celtics are my #1 basketball team so I’ll be at Warrior games to root against the Lakers, whom I hate as much as the Yankees!!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Another reason the Sox keep losing is that they do not play very good fundamental baseball under Valentine.

    Worst fundamental team that I can remember.

    We went from 3rd in K/W to last.

    3rd in UZR to 6th

    4th in defensive efficiency to 9th

    4th in fielding % to 9th

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    Here is why: we need to maintain at least position #10 in the draft. Here's the explanation:

    The top 10 picks in the draft are "protected," meaning that a team need not forfeit such a pick if signing a free agent who receives a one-year qualifying offer (roughly $13 million) from the team with whom he spent all of 2012. Picks outside of the top 10 are not protected.

    Say the Red Sox wanted to sign Josh Hamilton, a player who is certain to receive a one-year qualifying offer from the Rangers. If the Sox had the No. 10 pick in the first round of the 2013 draft, the selection would be protected. And so, the Sox only would give up their second-round selection -- a spot that likely would fall somewhere around the No. 45 overall selection in the draft -- for signing Hamilton.

    But, if the Sox are sitting at the No. 11 spot in the draft, the pick is unprotected. Signing a free agent like Hamilton would cost the Sox the No. 11 overall pick.

     



    yeah i came on the board tonight to say the same thing. course it was my hope a couple weeks prior to the all star break when the writing was on the wall for me

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm a newly recruited fan of the Marlins and Royals I'm hoping they win all of their remaining games while this sox team keeps losing. It would give the Sox a competitive advantage for the off season. Just think of drafting in the top ten! Not to count going after whichever free agent they want without losing a 1rst round pick.Sorry about my temporary defection to the Marlins and Royals,I'll come back to the team next season.

     

     

    As you, I have other MLB teams fro whom to root... the A's & Giants.

    I have been a loyal Boston teams fan, Sox, Celtics & Pats, all my life as 1st 21 years were in Maine. But with last 45 in SF I have been a local fan too. There are some fanatical fans who believe one should only be loyal to one team or state/region’s teams all their lives. I guess had I stayed in New England all my life I would have been. But it seems the only positive reasons to root for Sox is that they could be spoilers or continue to lose to get better draft picks. But can’t a man have more than one love ? I like the A’s too across the Bay & wanted so badly for them to beat the hated Yankees but I was a bit angry they’ve blown 2 games they could have won. But, and wouldn't the Sox love their pitching as the Giants will win the division tonight & Dodgers with former Sox won’t even make the playoffs. I’ll root for the Pats but also  I have a pretty good backup team to keep up my NFL hopes, the 49ers !!!  And the Celtics are my #1 basketball team so I’ll be at Warrior games to root against the Lakers, whom I hate as much as the Yankees!!!

     



    sounds like you are in the bay area. i am too, but still root for the teams where i was raised. when th esox arent in it i do root for smaller market teams. been rooting for as and orioles adn for sox high draft picks. very upsetttign today how teh as lost. score three and allow three back in teh saem innning in the extra innings. then yanks cap it. do not like the yanks. hope they blow it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Mets win and Sox lose. looks like were at #8 right now. Toronto and Miami are within reach. Minnesota and Cleveland will be tough at #4 and #5 and 30+ percentage points under us.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Another reason the Sox keep losing is that they do not play very good fundamental baseball under Valentine.

    Worst fundamental team that I can remember.

    We went from 3rd in K/W to last.

    3rd in UZR to 6th

    4th in defensive efficiency to 9th

    4th in fielding % to 9th

    ouch!!!


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Another reason the Sox keep losing is that they do not play very good fundamental baseball under Valentine.

    Worst fundamental team that I can remember.

    We went from 3rd in K/W to last.

    3rd in UZR to 6th

    4th in defensive efficiency to 9th

    4th in fielding % to 9th

    ouch!!!




    What happened to the "fundementals" last September under Tito?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Losing for draft picks is a terrible idea in baseball. The baseball draft is a complete crap shoot. If this was football or basketball, I would agree, but teh #7 pick only has a slightly better chance of becoming an all-star than the 40th pick.  Getting into the top 10 isnt a priority.  Spending the rest of the year removing the losing culture from the team is.  You dont remove a losing culture by losing on purpose.  These are competitors.  Losing is frustrating.  We need to turn things around.  Ending the season on a high note would be preferable, even if it costs us a measly draft pick.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    Also we have to remember that pittsburg has the #9 pick because they were unable to sign Appel last year.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    High draft pick or not, my dream scenario is that the Sox knock the Yankees out of the division lead and into the one-game wildcard playoff in that last weekend of the season.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Losing for draft picks is a terrible idea in baseball. The baseball draft is a complete crap shoot. If this was football or basketball, I would agree, but teh #7 pick only has a slightly better chance of becoming an all-star than the 40th pick.  Getting into the top 10 isnt a priority.  Spending the rest of the year removing the losing culture from the team is.  You dont remove a losing culture by losing on purpose.  These are competitors.  Losing is frustrating.  We need to turn things around.  Ending the season on a high note would be preferable, even if it costs us a measly draft pick.



    Good post Drew.  The idea of losing on purpose just doesn't sit well with me.  Besides the reasons you mentioned, respecting the integrity of the game is another.  I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if the Red Sox were contending for a playoff spot and we lost out because some team was intentionally losing games.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Why do we need to keep losing?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Losing for draft picks is a terrible idea in baseball. The baseball draft is a complete crap shoot. If this was football or basketball, I would agree, but teh #7 pick only has a slightly better chance of becoming an all-star than the 40th pick.  Getting into the top 10 isnt a priority.  Spending the rest of the year removing the losing culture from the team is.  You dont remove a losing culture by losing on purpose.  These are competitors.  Losing is frustrating.  We need to turn things around.  Ending the season on a high note would be preferable, even if it costs us a measly draft pick.



    Good post Drew.  The idea of losing on purpose just doesn't sit well with me.  Besides the reasons you mentioned, respecting the integrity of the game is another.  I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if the Red Sox were contending for a playoff spot and we lost out because some team was intentionally losing games.

     


    I agree with both of you.  The Red Sox are still professionals and try to win every game.  I was hoping that even though they wouldn't make the playoffs that they would end the season on a winning streak.  It isn't even possible at this point, but it still would be nice to see them win most of their remaining games.  The players aren't going to intentionally lose games with the belief that this will give them a better draft position. 

     
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