Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Is David Ortiz the most decorated Red Sox playoff performer in their history?  YES.

    Does David Ortiz whine and complain every time he has 1 year left on his contract?  YES.

    Did David Ortiz earn the (over) $110,000,000 that he has made in his Red Sox career?  YES.

    Have the Red Sox showed David Ortiz with 'love' and 'respect' during his 11 years? YES.

    Can David Ortiz ask to be extended after hitting .688 in the World Series and would I do the same?  YES.

    Does it seem petty for the 'face of the franchise' to complain about his contract three months after his team won the World Series?  Especially considering the Red Sox had the best team chemistry in a decade and possibly the best in their history? YES.

     

    I could go on.  The fact that Ortiz is 38, but seems that he has found the fountain of youth.  That his 10 most similar comps all failed to perform after age 39 (and most much earlier). That he will make $15 MM in 2014, < $2 MM more than Ryan Dempster (who might be a bullpen arm).  That he seemed to be angling for a multi-year extension in the interview, presumably at over $15 MM when he will be 39 in the first year of the extension.

     

    I hope that Ortiz's contract issue (and his discontent) doesn't cause problems in the Sox clubhouse. But if he is insisting on anything more than a tack on year at the same $$ (or slightly more), then I think that the Sox have to pass. 

     

    I guess that we will just have to see how this plays out!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    Is David Ortiz the most decorated Red Sox playoff performer in their history?  YES.

    Does David Ortiz whine and complain every time he has 1 year left on his contract?  YES.

    Did David Ortiz earn the (over) $110,000,000 that he has made in his Red Sox career?  YES.

    Have the Red Sox showed David Ortiz with 'love' and 'respect' during his 11 years? YES.

    Can David Ortiz ask to be extended after hitting .688 in the World Series and would I do the same?  YES.

    Does it seem petty for the 'face of the franchise' to complain about his contract three months after his team won the World Series?  Especially considering the Red Sox had the best team chemistry in a decade and possibly the best in their history? YES.

     

    I could go on.  The fact that Ortiz is 38, but seems that he has found the fountain of youth.  That his 10 most similar comps all failed to perform after age 39 (and most much earlier). That he will make $15 MM in 2014, < $2 MM more than Ryan Dempster (who might be a bullpen arm).  That he seemed to be angling for a multi-year extension in the interview, presumably at over $15 MM when he will be 39 in the first year of the extension.

     

    I hope that Ortiz's contract issue (and his discontent) doesn't cause problems in the Sox clubhouse. But if he is insisting on anything more than a tack on year at the same $$ (or slightly more), then I think that the Sox have to pass. 

     

    I guess that we will just have to see how this plays out!



    Great post.

    I thought I heard that he just wanted a year tacked on. If that's the case, it should be a no-brainer. I agree with the title of your thread. The level of venom is absurd.

    Ortiz never has handled the contract stuff very well publicly. So what. He's not perfect. It's amazing how some will pounce when they see the slightest flaw in a public figure, focusing on the one or two flaws and ignoring everything else.

    It's also ridiculous IMO when some say regarding Ortiz that it's better to get rid of him a year too early, rather than a year too late. Really? By that theory, if Ortiz struggles this season or get hurt -- as I posted on another thread -- does that mean the Sox would have been better off getting rid of him before last year, which would have been a year too early.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    We should write a Tim Wakefield contract for him where the contract renews annually, but costs half as much each year.

    year 1 - $15 mil    year 2 - $7.5 mil   year 3 - $3.75

     

    That way the team benefits from lowering his yearly average over the life of the deal as well as giving him security into the future. 

    League inflation could make that $18, $9 and $4.5 million

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from one-for-the-road. Show one-for-the-road's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    boring, year in and year out, the same old song and dance; only the past offseason when they signed him for a 2 year deal, he was happy and didnt whine to the media about "respect"

     

    I think he deserves all of the 110 million he has earned, but man, what does he want? a miltiyear deal, starting when he'll be 39?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I think another elephant in the room is that everyone knows that Ortiz's time is coming to an end soon...  I for one will be very sad to see Ortiz retire or have to move on... it will break my heart as a fan.  I think when people make a connection to a sports figure and they know the time is limited, reactions can sour. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    I think another elephant in the room is that everyone knows that Ortiz's time is coming to an end soon...  I for one will be very sad to see Ortiz retire or have to move on... it will break my heart as a fan.  I think when people make a connection to a sports figure and they know the time is limited, reactions can sour. 



    Yes, one day Papi will decline beyond his value, probably sooner than some of us want it to be.

    I can understand not wanting to pay a guy for an extra year or two beyond that point, but if anyone ever deserved pay for past legendary performance, it would be Papi. I'm not making a case for that as the reason for extending Papi. I know we have him over a barrell with this whole qualifying offer system, and the fact that his "open market" value would be severely lessened for another team not wanting to lose a draft pick to sign a guy for 1 or 2 years tops, but is that what Sox management really wants to do to a legend? The legend?

    The Sox do have a history of letting legends walk to free agency, such as Pedro Martinez, but Pedro made out fine the way that system was back then. The Sox also have a history of paying legends into old age, and even beyond out of respect for heroic acts on the field when it counts.

    They paid Schilling big money until 2007, despite the fact that he turned 41 that Novemeber, then out of gratitude gave him a "golden parachute" $8M for 2008, even though he never pitched an inning. I don't recall any posters complaining about paying the "great white hope" for past heroics. The bloody sock was worth it all, right? I'm saddened to admit that I am not shocked that so many clowns here, who said nothing about Schillings' deal, are making such a big deal about Papi answering a question by an interviewer, and saying he'd like to stay with the Sox longer and get an extension.

    The hatred and vitriol has come to be the norm. Sad but true.

     

     

    ...When all it sees at the hiring time is the line on the color bar

    That's just the way it is
    Some things will never change
    That's just the way it is...

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to royf19's comment:

    Ortiz never has handled the contract stuff very well publicly. So what. He's not perfect. It's amazing how some will pounce when they see the slightest flaw in a public figure, focusing on the one or two flaws and ignoring everything else.

    It's also ridiculous IMO when some say regarding Ortiz that it's better to get rid of him a year too early, rather than a year too late. Really? By that theory, if Ortiz struggles this season or get hurt -- as I posted on another thread -- does that mean the Sox would have been better off getting rid of him before last year, which would have been a year too early.



    A million bingos.  Well said. 

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    Is David Ortiz the most decorated Red Sox playoff performer in their history?  YES.

    Does David Ortiz whine and complain every time he has 1 year left on his contract?  YES.

    Did David Ortiz earn the (over) $110,000,000 that he has made in his Red Sox career?  YES.

    Have the Red Sox showed David Ortiz with 'love' and 'respect' during his 11 years? YES.

    Can David Ortiz ask to be extended after hitting .688 in the World Series and would I do the same?  YES.

    Does it seem petty for the 'face of the franchise' to complain about his contract three months after his team won the World Series?  Especially considering the Red Sox had the best team chemistry in a decade and possibly the best in their history? YES.

     

    I could go on.  The fact that Ortiz is 38, but seems that he has found the fountain of youth.  That his 10 most similar comps all failed to perform after age 39 (and most much earlier). That he will make $15 MM in 2014, < $2 MM more than Ryan Dempster (who might be a bullpen arm).  That he seemed to be angling for a multi-year extension in the interview, presumably at over $15 MM when he will be 39 in the first year of the extension.

     

    I hope that Ortiz's contract issue (and his discontent) doesn't cause problems in the Sox clubhouse. But if he is insisting on anything more than a tack on year at the same $$ (or slightly more), then I think that the Sox have to pass. 

     

    I guess that we will just have to see how this plays out!



    I totally agree. Papi is a great player and seems like a good guy. I am just tired of him complaining about his contract.  That doesn't make me a hater.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.



    Some of it is probably racism, but I don't think all of it is, moon.  Look at J. D. Drew.  Not too many Sox players have taken more abuse than that guy did, and he was a southern white man.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    I think another elephant in the room is that everyone knows that Ortiz's time is coming to an end soon...  I for one will be very sad to see Ortiz retire or have to move on... it will break my heart as a fan.  I think when people make a connection to a sports figure and they know the time is limited, reactions can sour. 



    Yes, one day Papi will decline beyond his value, probably sooner than some of us want it to be.

    I can understand not wanting to pay a guy for an extra year or two beyond that point, but if anyone ever deserved pay for past legendary performance, it would be Papi. I'm not making a case for that as the reason for extending Papi. I know we have him over a barrell with this whole qualifying offer system, and the fact that his "open market" value would be severely lessened for another team not wanting to lose a draft pick to sign a guy for 1 or 2 years tops, but is that what Sox management really wants to do to a legend? The legend?

    The Sox do have a history of letting legends walk to free agency, such as Pedro Martinez, but Pedro made out fine the way that system was back then. The Sox also have a history of paying legends into old age, and even beyond out of respect for heroic acts on the field when it counts.

    They paid Schilling big money until 2007, despite the fact that he turned 41 that Novemeber, then out of gratitude gave him a "golden parachute" $8M for 2008, even though he never pitched an inning. I don't recall any posters complaining about paying the "great white hope" for past heroics. The bloody sock was worth it all, right? I'm saddened to admit that I am not shocked that so many clowns here, who said nothing about Schillings' deal, are making such a big deal about Papi answering a question by an interviewer, and saying he'd like to stay with the Sox longer and get an extension.

    The hatred and vitriol has come to be the norm. Sad but true.

     

     

    ...When all it sees at the hiring time is the line on the color bar

    That's just the way it is
    Some things will never change
    That's just the way it is...

     

     




    EXCELLENT POST!!!!  Very well said. I simply do not get it.  The guy has been quite possibly the biggest hero the Sox have ever had.  Have there been 'better players'??  Yes.  Have there been better players when it mattered most?  NO.  If not for Papi there is a more than probable chance that the WS drought would still be in full swing.  So the guy answered questions and it may have come off a bit redundant.  WHO CARES!!!!????  The guy wears his emotions on his sleeve and when he gets asked a question....he answers it.  So why demonize the guy because of that??  Since when have we become so sensitive as a population that when somebody speaks his mind and is honest....people go crazy??  I don't get it.  As far as I'm concerned, the 3 time champ and Redsox hero/legend has earned the right to complain every other year about a contract.  Again.....WHO CARES????? 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

     


    Because he is that good.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to 37stories' comment:



    I totally agree. Papi is a great player and seems like a good guy. I am just tired of him complaining about his contract.  That doesn't make me a hater.



    I'm still trying to figure what Ortiz said, that's so much worse than what most other older players have said about wanting to play for a few more years...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    I think another elephant in the room is that everyone knows that Ortiz's time is coming to an end soon...  I for one will be very sad to see Ortiz retire or have to move on... it will break my heart as a fan.  I think when people make a connection to a sports figure and they know the time is limited, reactions can sour. 



    Yes, one day Papi will decline beyond his value, probably sooner than some of us want it to be.

    I can understand not wanting to pay a guy for an extra year or two beyond that point, but if anyone ever deserved pay for past legendary performance, it would be Papi. I'm not making a case for that as the reason for extending Papi. I know we have him over a barrell with this whole qualifying offer system, and the fact that his "open market" value would be severely lessened for another team not wanting to lose a draft pick to sign a guy for 1 or 2 years tops, but is that what Sox management really wants to do to a legend? The legend?

    The Sox do have a history of letting legends walk to free agency, such as Pedro Martinez, but Pedro made out fine the way that system was back then. The Sox also have a history of paying legends into old age, and even beyond out of respect for heroic acts on the field when it counts.

    They paid Schilling big money until 2007, despite the fact that he turned 41 that Novemeber, then out of gratitude gave him a "golden parachute" $8M for 2008, even though he never pitched an inning. I don't recall any posters complaining about paying the "great white hope" for past heroics. The bloody sock was worth it all, right? I'm saddened to admit that I am not shocked that so many clowns here, who said nothing about Schillings' deal, are making such a big deal about Papi answering a question by an interviewer, and saying he'd like to stay with the Sox longer and get an extension.

    The hatred and vitriol has come to be the norm. Sad but true.

     

     

    ...When all it sees at the hiring time is the line on the color bar

    That's just the way it is
    Some things will never change
    That's just the way it is...

     

     




    Other than Stiffy playing the reverse-racism charge against ALL Boston fans, in a naked attempt to turn the tables on folks calling his rants racist, the "RACISM" charge is patently absurd, moreover it's really getting old.

    I highly doubt that more than .1 % of Boston fans take potchots at Papi due to racism.  It's akin to every substantive schots at Obama being chalked up to racism.  It's beyond old!

    If some on this board want to jump on Stiffy's "racism" claims, it's time to check yourself.  The self-flagelation is tired.  

    Ironic.......

    Papi is the MOST BELOVED sports figure in Boston RIGHT NOW!

    Schill is one of the most reviled!  How did all that "white hope" love dissipate so quickly?

     

    Some of you want to jump into Stiffy's trap on this subject?  Good on ya!  Brilliant!  Play into the old stereotypes of Boston, as the Stiffler is want for you to do??  Have at it.  Again...  Brilliant.  You're making his day.  "Oh...  It's not me who I'm calling racist, it's those other Bostonians...  You know...."  Really?   Get over it!

    Papi is so far beyond beloved!  It's time to stop focusing on a relative FEW nitwits who truly are racist, as though Boston is unique in having a few racists in their midst?  Time to take a drive around this country......   Boston is FAR FROM unique in this regard.  In fact, I'd put money on the FACT that Boston is far more "progressive" in their views about differing races co-existing in harmony.  Again.......  Get over yourselves on this point.  You want to self-flagelate?  Go for it.  Just leave the rest of us out of your fantasy world.

    I'm as liberal as they come on matters of race & social politics, but I'm sick and tire of the nonsense on this issue!  You want to beat up on Boston on this issue?  Go do it someplace else!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    oooops!  Forgot about the "chot heard round the world....."

    It took 5 schots to get that done....

    Ughhhh!

    p.s.  NOT taking schots at Moon specifically.  Just the generally tire point.....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.




    Why does it have to be this? 

    If people of color want to be treated equallly they should also expect their actions to be treated equally.  I'd be as critical of Nava, Koji, or The Flyin' Hawiaan if any of them said in the middle of a contract that if they don't get the extension they want they may want to "move on".  Language like that is more appropriate toward the END of a contract. 

    Your assertion that the issue is about racism is the mirror image of a person of color not getting what they want and then blaming it on racism.


    Some things aren't about race.  Some things just ARE. 

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.




    are you serious?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

      MOON,  I am disappointed in you, of all people to be playing "the race card" here........No need for it at all..... All of Red Sox NATION loves PAPI and everything that he has done in & out of his RED SOX uni .......  That being said, there is always two sides of the baseball/business transactions .......   Yes, I have admitted SEVERAL times that "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PAPI IN 2013" as he not only got back on the field, had a real goooood year, and put "us on his back " for the playoffs &  W S ......  Butttt, the SOX are in a tough place based on age, health concerns (this year or down the road) and the evidence that when PAPI is done, the  D H position will take on a new look......  I have been called out constantly for my posts by a lot of posters who think that an opinion on this board is always got to be one way, the race card many times... Now I see you playing that card and I am appalled by it .  Again, as a 40,000 + poster, and one of the great voices on this board, may I suggest that you step up and walk the race card back, you are a better person than that !!!   B-806 & DAD ....


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.



    Some of it is probably racism, but I don't think all of it is, moon.  Look at J. D. Drew.  Not too many Sox players have taken more abuse than that guy did, and he was a southern white man.

     

    boy Nut, you just had to bring that up didn't you?..you've now probably set andrewmitch's therapy back a year..he was doing so well Tongue Out 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     

      MOON,  I am disappointed in you, of all people to be playing "the race card" here........No need for it at all..... All of Red Sox NATION loves PAPI and everything that he has done in & out of his RED SOX uni .......  That being said, there is always two sides of the baseball/business transactions .......   Yes, I have admitted SEVERAL times that "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PAPI IN 2013" as he not only got back on the field, had a real goooood year, and put "us on his back " for the playoffs &  W S ......  Butttt, the SOX are in a tough place based on age, health concerns (this year or down the road) and the evidence that when PAPI is done, the  D H position will take on a new look......  I have been called out constantly for my posts by a lot of posters who think that an opinion on this board is always got to be one way, the race card many times... Now I see you playing that card and I am appalled by it .  Again, as a 40,000 + poster, and one of the great voices on this board, may I suggest that you step up and walk the race card back, you are a better person than that !!!   B-806 & DAD ....


     




    So wait a second......he shares his very candid OPINION and you don't like it so you want him to take it back?  Aren't you the same person that when you get blasted for your opinion you state that 'it's my opinion and I won't let the Lib, Rad, Moonbats control my opinion'......

    Does that seem fair at all Bill??  Does it seem right?  So I guess you're calling yourself a Lib.....good job hypocrite!! 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to 37stories' comment:



    I totally agree. Papi is a great player and seems like a good guy. I am just tired of him complaining about his contract.  That doesn't make me a hater.



    I'm still trying to figure what Ortiz said, that's so much worse than what most other older players have said about wanting to play for a few more years...



    He has a history of complaining about his contract, it makes me a tad irritated. I would be irritated with any player complaining publicly about his contract.

    There really isn't much more to it than that. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to steven11's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.




    are you serious?



    That is  a rather bizarre thing to say.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    2014 Season

    Lester 13 million
    Papi 15 million
    Pedroia 12.5 million

    I think racism can be taken out.

     
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