Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    moon, what some of us who have defended bill on this issue have pointed out, and what you have completely neglected to respond to, are the following:

    1) He loved Bradley and was screaming for him to be the everyday outfielder.

    2) He loved Iggy and was screaming for him to be the everyday shortstop.

    I can go dig up some of the threads he started about these things.

    You seem to be taking the position that someone can be 'selectively racist'.

    A charge as serious as racism should not be made this carelessly. 

     

    The old reply that "some of my friends are black" does not mean a person is racist or not.

    Besides, JBJ and Iggy have not been "uppity" either.



    I guess bill must have bashed Fat-Cat Beckett because he was an uppity white guy. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In case you still don't get it?   I'm beyond tired of outsiders constantly taking shots at my home.  My neighbors.  My friends.   Who have nothing to do with your 1970's fantasy stereotyped view of Boston & Mass.  

    Time to zip it.  I respect you Moon, but you are way past the line.  Time to drop it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    moon is grabbing decades ol' straws  to make his perception of a point.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    redsoxdirtdog yes I am driving home the full-venom non-race points just because moon injected race into the conversation. A few including the OP admitted race was never part of the original question: Why the venom on BOTH sides?

    moon may be polite but he quietly supplied the venom from the other side, and it is a deadly venom as it comes. Racism.

    redsoxdirtdog u are a thorough poster.




    You partially misunderstand with respect to overreacting.  I was referring to your overreaction to Papi wanting his his payday, & going public with his wishes.  I understand your reaction to Moon using this subject as a foil.

    I'm very disappointed with him on doing so.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    At this point, does it matter ????????




    You don't matter.....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    At this point, does it matter ????????




    You don't matter.....



    So we all have finally found an agreeable point ! Cool

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?



    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Take your blinders off.....the guy is a bigot. 

    Sure he rooted for JBJ and Iggy because he's a fan (I think) but that doesn't take away the fact that he also has said A LOT of racially motivated things in the past and present.  The guy should be banned and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later....

     

    I was responding to the specific quote.  That's all I can do.  I get a little tired of anyone pointing out anything about any group being sexist, or racist, or some other -ist.  It's possible that he racist, but I disagree with that particular statement being racist.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Boy has this thread really have gone off the tracks.

     

    Geez -- everybody just take a deep breath and settle down.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Take your blinders off.....the guy is a bigot. 

    Sure he rooted for JBJ and Iggy because he's a fan (I think) but that doesn't take away the fact that he also has said A LOT of racially motivated things in the past and present.  The guy should be banned and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later....

     

    I was responding to the specific quote.  That's all I can do.  I get a little tired of anyone pointing out anything about any group being sexist, or racist, or some other -ist.  It's possible that he racist, but I disagree with that particular statement being racist.



    (+1) ..... 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?



    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?



    How many black people do you think have white friends and still bad mouth the heck out of white people? Do u call them racists or do you just remind us all about slavery?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     

     

     

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 



    I cry racism behind every shadow? 

    Please!

    I said you all think racism doesn't exist? When and where.

    You are the demagogue here.

    Why don't you stop "digging" and assuming I am saying things I never even implied.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?



    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?



    How many black people do you think have white friends and still bad mouth the heck out of white people? Do u call them racists or do you just remind us all about slavery?



    Taking this angle is telling- very very telling.

    Classic.

    But yes, they would be and are racists as well. 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

     

    [/QUOTE

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 



    I cry racism behind every shadow? 

    Please!

    I said you all think racism doesn't exist? When and where.

    You are the demagogue here.

    Why don't you stop "digging" and assuming I am saying things I never even implied.



    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there /

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.



    It's not always so clear.

    Today many in the "PC community" are taking a new tact. They may say or believe in something like this, "Look how well the Indian immigrants have assimilated into our culture and succeeded better than others..."  (or "model minorities") It's really a back-handed way of demeaning other cultures, and like more overt racism is based in ignorance and lack of a fuller understanding of the actual factors involved differing ethnic groups coming to America and how the shade of ones skin color still effects your chances to succeed 9at least financially). Just read the book "Tiger Mom" and see for yourself how racism can take many forms.

    How many of you have heard someone say something like, "Those Indians always win the spelling bees, because their culture demands that their parents push them to learn..."? It's oversimplifications like this that are based in narrow-mindedness & ignorance, which happens to be the hotbed of racism. Clearly, if India shared a border with the USA, we'd be hearing another story from the same mouths of those praising their culture now. India is a mess. Over 25% of the country is illiterate. That's more than Mexico, but only the top money earners in India can even afford a plane ticket to the USA. I read somewhere that the $1000 it costs to fly from India to the USA is like a year's pay for the average Indian. The top 10% income bracket in Mexico is not coming to America, if it was, the dialogue would be changed.

    Yes, the left and right are both continuing the ignorance. Maybe things are improving, maybe not so much. It's still a fact that the color of one's skin plays a significant factor in opportunity and the chance for success, and it's not because of any racial or ethnic inferiority or superiority; it's because of varying levels of discrimination, bigotry and racism.

    I'm sticking to my position that some of all this wildly excessive vitriol is racially motivated. I don't cry "racism" behind "every shadow".  If that makes me equal to a racist in your mind, then there's not much more to say, but I'll end with this: I don't lump everyone into one clear group of pure racists or pure non racists, in fact, I believe probably all of us have some form of harmful racial or ethnic prejudice in us some where, even if unconcious. It's not as clear as night and day.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.



    It's not always so clear.

    Today many in the "PC community" are taking a new tact. They may say or believe in something like this, "Look how well the Indian immigrants have assimilated into our culture and succeeded better than others..."  (or "model minorities") It's really a back-handed way of demeaning other cultures, and like more overt racism is based in ignorance and lack of a fuller understanding of the actual factors involved differing ethnic groups coming to America and how the shade of ones skin color still effects your chances to succeed 9at least financially). Just read the book "Tiger Mom" and see for yourself how racism can take many forms.

    How many of you have heard someone say something like, "Those Indians always win the spelling bees, because their culture demands that their parents push them to learn..."? It's oversimplifications like this that are based in narrow-mindedness & ignorance, which happens to be the hotbed of racism. Clearly, if India shared a border with the USA, we'd be hearing another story from the same mouths of those praising their culture now. India is a mess. Over 25% of the country is illiterate. That's more than Mexico, but only the top money earners in India can even afford a plane ticket to the USA. I read somewhere that the $1000 it costs to fly from India to the USA is like a year's pay for the average Indian. The top 10% income bracket in Mexico is not coming to America, if it was, the dialogue would be changed.

    Yes, the left and right are both continuing the ignorance. Maybe things are improving, maybe not so much. It's still a fact that the color of one's skin plays a significant factor in opportunity and the chance for success, and it's not because of any racial or ethnic inferiority or superiority; it's because of varying levels of discrimination, bigotry and racism.

    I'm sticking to my position that some of all this wildly excessive vitriol is racially motivated. I don't cry "racism" behind "every shadow".  If that makes me equal to a racist in your mind, then there's not much more to say, but I'll end with this: I don't lump everyone into one clear group of pure racists or pure non racists, in fact, I believe probably all of us have some form of harmful racial or ethnic prejudice in us some where, even if unconcious. It's not as clear as night and day.




    Incredible!

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

     


    Because he is that good.



    And because some of our posters are so dead sure that their fantasy GM skills aren't to be questioned.  How dare we question internet know-it-alls as compared to a true high level professional?  How dare we question his skill, drive or even ability to deal with injury ... uh, or lack of the same? 

    I appreciate the fact that we have Big Papi supporters and that he has validated their support.  I don't understand the vitriol against him.  He's always been a colorful individual, not soft-spoken or cow-towing to the "sensible" fans here.  His flare is both enjoyed and dispised.  But he's always been worth any time invested, monies paid, and attention allotted. 

    He's the same man who told the terrorists of the world that Boston wasn't owned by them but by Bostonians ...

    The on field activities and the interviews are the same worth while person.

    It's time that the negative voices edit their sure lack of support.  It's time that we all appreciate this rare individual before he is truly no longer MLB star capablle.

     

    As far as being racist, that might be some of it.  But I remember feeling the same offense by people who kept saying Yaz was no longer a big leaguer ...  and after teon or twelve years of them saying it, they finally were right.   Too bad they did not appreciate Yaz - or do not appreciate Big Papi - for all they have meant AS THEY PLAY!




    An excellent post, SY.



    Thx 4B  :)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Even now people are pushing "micro-aggression" labels onto people as if you can never have an opinion on someone who is not white. It is bologna!

    So now I or anyone cannot criticize Ortiz out of fear of being called a racist. That is what you are doing - squashing opinions by instilling fear of false persecution.

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.



    Actually, more than any other time in his career, now is the most justifiable time to ask for more.



    Agreed, Moon.  And I totally disagree with the "shut your (his) face" comments or mind set.  He has been diminished time after time as a slacker and a money hungry guy,  especially during those 2 season that his hand injury played such a huge part of his difficulty.  He has been Big Papi and had happily slain the Yanquiis and we loved it.  He has been the 2nd bat in the twin killers of Manny and Papi and I LOVED IT.  (Discussion on Manny another place and another time ...)  But he has REMAINED TRUE to Boston, through it all.  He has TALKED TO US AS IF WE ARE FAMILY and he is invested in this family.  We have gotten his for a family discount year after year.  He has outperformed the hated A-Rod year after year at nearly a third of the price annually.  He CAME BACK FROM HIS INJURY magnificently and we have enjoyed the result - a third WS championship in his time with us.  CAN WE NAME ANOTHER STAR THAT GAS GIVEN US THAT?  Naaaaaaaaa

    Moon, I hope you realize I'm not railing against you - but those who still think Papi is out of order.

    My birthday was last Sunday and the good wife gave me another nice suhprize (sic) - a Big Papi jersey...

     

     
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