Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Much ado about nothing, Tim Kurkjian said. Sox can give him a QO, then work an extension, after he agrees.
    Probably Ben told his Agent, just be patient. Still working on coming season.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even now people are pushing "micro-aggression" labels onto people as if you can never have an opinion on someone who is not white. It is bologna!

    So now I or anyone cannot criticize Ortiz out of fear of being called a racist. That is what you are doing - squashing opinions by instilling fear of false persecution.

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, more than any other time in his career, now is the most justifiable time to ask for more.

    [/QUOTE]

    He can ask for whatever he wants-privately. He has been paid very well in Boston and makes far more than any of us and likely more than anyone any of us even know. For him to take his requests public has nothing to do with his race; it still sounds greedy. A generic "I am sure everything will work out" is a wiser response to the questions reporters are asking him rather than "I want a multiyear contract or else its time to move on". Even better: "I am very grateful to the Red Sox organization for compensating me very very well during my tenure here. Like all professional baseball players I have made more money for playing a game than 99.9% of the people in this country. My family and I are secure for life. I am sure my next contract will be a fair one".

    Sorry. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with brash tactlessness.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even now people are pushing "micro-aggression" labels onto people as if you can never have an opinion on someone who is not white. It is bologna!

    So now I or anyone cannot criticize Ortiz out of fear of being called a racist. That is what you are doing - squashing opinions by instilling fear of false persecution.

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, more than any other time in his career, now is the most justifiable time to ask for more.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ah!  There it is....  A real debate, minus the race card.

     

    I happen to think that Enchillada is seriously over-reacting with respect to Papi RIGHT NOW!  There is no doubt that IF EVER, NOW is the time for him to step up & try to hit pay dirt for a LIFETIME of service to the Sox.  Now, in the past, when he and Manny were in the habbit of playing the "where's my respect," all while Manny would show his teammates & fans ZERO respect, a la "my grandmother died again"......  "Picture day with my teammates?"  "What teammates?"  "You don't have my reservation old man, I'm gonna put you through a wall"  Now that OLD "where's my respect crap, used to infect Papi to some degree.  It got OLD REAL QUICK.   Flash forward..........  I no longer lump Papi in with the likes of his old buddy Manny.  The guy has been THE DRIVING FORCE behind all 3 WS Championships, and there is NO DOUBT that he has been underpaid for that amazing production.  Now is the time to strongly suggest getting paid by the Sox.  He's earned that right.  I wish he kept it behind closed doors, but we all know how the game is played.  You aren't going to get paid unless there is home town pressure to do so.  The Sox are under no obligation to extend him right now, and it benefits them to see how things go in 2014.  Papi's getting old, & doesn't want to run the risk of getting hurt & never getting a paycheck for 2015.  It's just business. 

    You see.....  I respect those who get tired of the "where's my respect" BS, but in the end, I side with Papi on this one.  HE'S EARNED THE RIGHT to ask for the extension NOW. 

    NO NEED to impute "racist" motives in the arguement.  Ench, Bill, etc. are not being racists, just stupid ;) 

    Just kidding boys ;)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why so vicious? The guy has done a lot on the field for the Red Sox. Prior to 2004, would you have ever said the Sox will win three World Series titles in 10 years. Ortiz has been integral to all three. It doesn't give anyone a pass to do anything, but it should make fans be a bit more tolerant to his idiosyncrisies (sp?). 

    Everyone has his flaws. Ortiz isn't the first player to have insecurities. Money and success doesn't always make those go away. In fact, the fact that he has those insecurities likely drives him.

    You mentioned Vaughn and Clemens in another post. Ortiz has never rested on his laurels or turned things ugly regardless of his contract. When he struggled against lefties post wrist injury (2009 and 2010), what did he do. He worked harder prior to 2011 to improve against lefties.

    You don't have to like his complaining, but do you have to get so nasty when discussing it? 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That is true, but what about all the other years? If winning means anything it should more to him than us, why start with the poor me tactics yet again and a possible tarnish on Spring Training.

     

    Keep in mind he always gets his way, the team has yet to call his bluff. I would not bet he would be Mr. Happy if they did... Mo Vaughn, Clemens, etc.,..... all our favorites turned ugly when they didn't get that extra "security/respect"

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't say he "always gets his way", since he was underpaid by over $40M just for his regular season output since 2003.

    Like I said, I have no beef with how Sox management has treated Papi. This thread is about Papi's tactics to get what he feels he deserves.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    moon, what some of us who have defended bill on this issue have pointed out, and what you have completely neglected to respond to, are the following:

    1) He loved Bradley and was screaming for him to be the everyday outfielder.

    2) He loved Iggy and was screaming for him to be the everyday shortstop.

    I can go dig up some of the threads he started about these things.

    You seem to be taking the position that someone can be 'selectively racist'.

    A charge as serious as racism should not be made this carelessly. 

     

    The old reply that "some of my friends are black" does not mean a person is racist or not.

    Besides, JBJ and Iggy have not been "uppity" either.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even now people are pushing "micro-aggression" labels onto people as if you can never have an opinion on someone who is not white. It is bologna!

    So now I or anyone cannot criticize Ortiz out of fear of being called a racist. That is what you are doing - squashing opinions by instilling fear of false persecution.

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, more than any other time in his career, now is the most justifiable time to ask for more.

    [/QUOTE]

    He can ask for whatever he wants-privately. He has been paid very well in Boston and makes far more than any of us and likely more than anyone any of us even know. For him to take his requests public has nothing to do with his race; it still sounds greedy. A generic "I am sure everything will work out" is a wiser response to the questions reporters are asking him rather than "I want a multiyear contract or else its time to move on". Even better: "I am very grateful to the Red Sox organization for compensating me very very well during my tenure here. Like all professional baseball players I have made more money for playing a game than 99.9% of the people in this country. My family and I are secure for life. I am sure my next contract will be a fair one".

    Sorry. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with brash tactlessness.

    [/QUOTE]


    well said.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    redsoxdirtdog yes I am driving home the full-venom non-race points just because moon injected race into the conversation. A few including the OP admitted race was never part of the original question: Why the venom on BOTH sides?

    moon may be polite but he quietly supplied the venom from the other side, and it is a deadly venom as it comes. Racism.

    redsoxdirtdog u are a thorough poster.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    redsoxdirtdog yes I am driving home the full-venom non-race points just because moon injected race into the conversation. A few including the OP admitted race was never part of the original question: Why the venom on BOTH sides?

    moon may be polite but he quietly supplied the venom from the other side, and it is a deadly venom as it comes. Racism.

    redsoxdirtdog u are a thorough poster.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point exactly: racism brings out the venom on "both sides".

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to tvfrank's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Racism in Boston? Are you nuts? Weren't the SOX the 1st American League team to sign a black ballplayer? Hold on; what's that? They were what? err, nevermind.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just to be clear, I have never come close to saying the Sox, under current management" is or has been racist.

    Before Henry, there is no debate.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to tvfrank's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Racism in Boston? Are you nuts? Weren't the SOX the 1st American League team to sign a black ballplayer? Hold on; what's that? err, nevermind.

    [/QUOTE]

    My guess is that those of you basking in the glow of 1970's Boston are not from Boston, & have never spent much time here.  I wonder if you've ever traveled any of this splendidly open minded country.

    Frankly, your holier than thou condemnations of MODERN Boston & Mass by proxy, are beyond tired.  

    Try to get out more.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Oh how I love the bandwagon fans from elsewhere who constantly need to over-sell their liberal civil rights credentials by condemning everyone around them.

    Lift yourselves up boys.  You must feel you need it?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon, what some of us who have defended bill on this issue have pointed out, and what you have completely neglected to respond to, are the following:

    1) He loved Bradley and was screaming for him to be the everyday outfielder.

    2) He loved Iggy and was screaming for him to be the everyday shortstop.

    I can go dig up some of the threads he started about these things.

    You seem to be taking the position that someone can be 'selectively racist'.

    A charge as serious as racism should not be made this carelessly. 

     

    The old reply that "some of my friends are black" does not mean a person is racist or not.

    Besides, JBJ and Iggy have not been "uppity" either.

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess bill must have bashed Fat-Cat Beckett because he was an uppity white guy. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In case you still don't get it?   I'm beyond tired of outsiders constantly taking shots at my home.  My neighbors.  My friends.   Who have nothing to do with your 1970's fantasy stereotyped view of Boston & Mass.  

    Time to zip it.  I respect you Moon, but you are way past the line.  Time to drop it.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    moon is grabbing decades ol' straws  to make his perception of a point.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    redsoxdirtdog yes I am driving home the full-venom non-race points just because moon injected race into the conversation. A few including the OP admitted race was never part of the original question: Why the venom on BOTH sides?

    moon may be polite but he quietly supplied the venom from the other side, and it is a deadly venom as it comes. Racism.

    redsoxdirtdog u are a thorough poster.

    [/QUOTE]


    You partially misunderstand with respect to overreacting.  I was referring to your overreaction to Papi wanting his his payday, & going public with his wishes.  I understand your reaction to Moon using this subject as a foil.

    I'm very disappointed with him on doing so.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    At this point, does it matter ????????

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At this point, does it matter ????????

    [/QUOTE]


    You don't matter.....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At this point, does it matter ????????

    [/QUOTE]


    You don't matter.....

    [/QUOTE]

    So we all have finally found an agreeable point ! Cool

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?

    [/QUOTE]

    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Take your blinders off.....the guy is a bigot. 

    Sure he rooted for JBJ and Iggy because he's a fan (I think) but that doesn't take away the fact that he also has said A LOT of racially motivated things in the past and present.  The guy should be banned and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later....

     

    I was responding to the specific quote.  That's all I can do.  I get a little tired of anyone pointing out anything about any group being sexist, or racist, or some other -ist.  It's possible that he racist, but I disagree with that particular statement being racist.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Boy has this thread really have gone off the tracks.

     

    Geez -- everybody just take a deep breath and settle down.

     

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