Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Take your blinders off.....the guy is a bigot. 

    Sure he rooted for JBJ and Iggy because he's a fan (I think) but that doesn't take away the fact that he also has said A LOT of racially motivated things in the past and present.  The guy should be banned and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later....

     

    I was responding to the specific quote.  That's all I can do.  I get a little tired of anyone pointing out anything about any group being sexist, or racist, or some other -ist.  It's possible that he racist, but I disagree with that particular statement being racist.



    (+1) ..... 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?



    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?



    How many black people do you think have white friends and still bad mouth the heck out of white people? Do u call them racists or do you just remind us all about slavery?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

    Racism is dead, because you all said so.

     

     

     

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 



    I cry racism behind every shadow? 

    Please!

    I said you all think racism doesn't exist? When and where.

    You are the demagogue here.

    Why don't you stop "digging" and assuming I am saying things I never even implied.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love it when a guy someone wants to label a racist says he has black friends, and the accuser says he is either lying, or still a racist anyhow... then when the accuser cannot win his argument he developes a new-age term called "micro-aggression"

    When is enough enough moon?



    You actually think it is impossible for a white person to have a black friend and still be a racist?



    How many black people do you think have white friends and still bad mouth the heck out of white people? Do u call them racists or do you just remind us all about slavery?



    Taking this angle is telling- very very telling.

    Classic.

    But yes, they would be and are racists as well. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    You can all go feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside now.

     

    [/QUOTE

     

    Oh for crying out loud Moon.  Who said that?  Nobody!  But way to perfectly demagogue the issue.

    This line of arguement is way below you.

     

    p.s.  btw.....  you marginalize your point about racism when you cry racism behind every shaddow.  That's the real point.  It's what CNN & especially MSNBC are learning the hard way.  Particularly when they manufacture the issue to begin with, a la mocking the picture of Romney with his bi-racial grandson.

    Racism is real & alive.  One should speak up when it rears it's ugly head. 

    However.....  When somebody starts crying racism about every little thing, like taking offense to Papi's public contract negotiations, you marginalize your actual point about racism existing.

    Now, you demagogue the point by claiming we all think racism doesn't exist.  CHEAP!

    Just stop digging Moon.  I think you're a decent guy, so just stop.  You've taken it too far. 



    I cry racism behind every shadow? 

    Please!

    I said you all think racism doesn't exist? When and where.

    You are the demagogue here.

    Why don't you stop "digging" and assuming I am saying things I never even implied.



    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there /

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.



    It's not always so clear.

    Today many in the "PC community" are taking a new tact. They may say or believe in something like this, "Look how well the Indian immigrants have assimilated into our culture and succeeded better than others..."  (or "model minorities") It's really a back-handed way of demeaning other cultures, and like more overt racism is based in ignorance and lack of a fuller understanding of the actual factors involved differing ethnic groups coming to America and how the shade of ones skin color still effects your chances to succeed 9at least financially). Just read the book "Tiger Mom" and see for yourself how racism can take many forms.

    How many of you have heard someone say something like, "Those Indians always win the spelling bees, because their culture demands that their parents push them to learn..."? It's oversimplifications like this that are based in narrow-mindedness & ignorance, which happens to be the hotbed of racism. Clearly, if India shared a border with the USA, we'd be hearing another story from the same mouths of those praising their culture now. India is a mess. Over 25% of the country is illiterate. That's more than Mexico, but only the top money earners in India can even afford a plane ticket to the USA. I read somewhere that the $1000 it costs to fly from India to the USA is like a year's pay for the average Indian. The top 10% income bracket in Mexico is not coming to America, if it was, the dialogue would be changed.

    Yes, the left and right are both continuing the ignorance. Maybe things are improving, maybe not so much. It's still a fact that the color of one's skin plays a significant factor in opportunity and the chance for success, and it's not because of any racial or ethnic inferiority or superiority; it's because of varying levels of discrimination, bigotry and racism.

    I'm sticking to my position that some of all this wildly excessive vitriol is racially motivated. I don't cry "racism" behind "every shadow".  If that makes me equal to a racist in your mind, then there's not much more to say, but I'll end with this: I don't lump everyone into one clear group of pure racists or pure non racists, in fact, I believe probably all of us have some form of harmful racial or ethnic prejudice in us some where, even if unconcious. It's not as clear as night and day.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.



    It's not always so clear.

    Today many in the "PC community" are taking a new tact. They may say or believe in something like this, "Look how well the Indian immigrants have assimilated into our culture and succeeded better than others..."  (or "model minorities") It's really a back-handed way of demeaning other cultures, and like more overt racism is based in ignorance and lack of a fuller understanding of the actual factors involved differing ethnic groups coming to America and how the shade of ones skin color still effects your chances to succeed 9at least financially). Just read the book "Tiger Mom" and see for yourself how racism can take many forms.

    How many of you have heard someone say something like, "Those Indians always win the spelling bees, because their culture demands that their parents push them to learn..."? It's oversimplifications like this that are based in narrow-mindedness & ignorance, which happens to be the hotbed of racism. Clearly, if India shared a border with the USA, we'd be hearing another story from the same mouths of those praising their culture now. India is a mess. Over 25% of the country is illiterate. That's more than Mexico, but only the top money earners in India can even afford a plane ticket to the USA. I read somewhere that the $1000 it costs to fly from India to the USA is like a year's pay for the average Indian. The top 10% income bracket in Mexico is not coming to America, if it was, the dialogue would be changed.

    Yes, the left and right are both continuing the ignorance. Maybe things are improving, maybe not so much. It's still a fact that the color of one's skin plays a significant factor in opportunity and the chance for success, and it's not because of any racial or ethnic inferiority or superiority; it's because of varying levels of discrimination, bigotry and racism.

    I'm sticking to my position that some of all this wildly excessive vitriol is racially motivated. I don't cry "racism" behind "every shadow".  If that makes me equal to a racist in your mind, then there's not much more to say, but I'll end with this: I don't lump everyone into one clear group of pure racists or pure non racists, in fact, I believe probably all of us have some form of harmful racial or ethnic prejudice in us some where, even if unconcious. It's not as clear as night and day.




    Incredible!

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

     


    Because he is that good.



    And because some of our posters are so dead sure that their fantasy GM skills aren't to be questioned.  How dare we question internet know-it-alls as compared to a true high level professional?  How dare we question his skill, drive or even ability to deal with injury ... uh, or lack of the same? 

    I appreciate the fact that we have Big Papi supporters and that he has validated their support.  I don't understand the vitriol against him.  He's always been a colorful individual, not soft-spoken or cow-towing to the "sensible" fans here.  His flare is both enjoyed and dispised.  But he's always been worth any time invested, monies paid, and attention allotted. 

    He's the same man who told the terrorists of the world that Boston wasn't owned by them but by Bostonians ...

    The on field activities and the interviews are the same worth while person.

    It's time that the negative voices edit their sure lack of support.  It's time that we all appreciate this rare individual before he is truly no longer MLB star capablle.

     

    As far as being racist, that might be some of it.  But I remember feeling the same offense by people who kept saying Yaz was no longer a big leaguer ...  and after teon or twelve years of them saying it, they finally were right.   Too bad they did not appreciate Yaz - or do not appreciate Big Papi - for all they have meant AS THEY PLAY!




    An excellent post, SY.



    Thx 4B  :)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Even now people are pushing "micro-aggression" labels onto people as if you can never have an opinion on someone who is not white. It is bologna!

    So now I or anyone cannot criticize Ortiz out of fear of being called a racist. That is what you are doing - squashing opinions by instilling fear of false persecution.

     

    Here it is: Wether he has a good year or an off-year Ortiz acts like an azz with his needing security and respect. The guy has been paid plenty. He should for once shut his face.



    Actually, more than any other time in his career, now is the most justifiable time to ask for more.



    Agreed, Moon.  And I totally disagree with the "shut your (his) face" comments or mind set.  He has been diminished time after time as a slacker and a money hungry guy,  especially during those 2 season that his hand injury played such a huge part of his difficulty.  He has been Big Papi and had happily slain the Yanquiis and we loved it.  He has been the 2nd bat in the twin killers of Manny and Papi and I LOVED IT.  (Discussion on Manny another place and another time ...)  But he has REMAINED TRUE to Boston, through it all.  He has TALKED TO US AS IF WE ARE FAMILY and he is invested in this family.  We have gotten his for a family discount year after year.  He has outperformed the hated A-Rod year after year at nearly a third of the price annually.  He CAME BACK FROM HIS INJURY magnificently and we have enjoyed the result - a third WS championship in his time with us.  CAN WE NAME ANOTHER STAR THAT GAS GIVEN US THAT?  Naaaaaaaaa

    Moon, I hope you realize I'm not railing against you - but those who still think Papi is out of order.

    My birthday was last Sunday and the good wife gave me another nice suhprize (sic) - a Big Papi jersey...

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mike-harrington/red-sox-need-to-reward-big-papi-20140202

     

    From BUFFALO no less

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Let's not forget that the last contract the Red Sox gave Ortiz was pretty generous under the circumstances.  They guaranteed him 30 million when he was coming off an injury that kept him out almost the entire second half of the 2012 season.  Lots of people on here were complaining vociferously that they gave him too much.

    People still complain about the final contract the Sox gave Schilling, which turned out to be a parting gift.

    It's hard for the team to 'do the right thing' no matter what they do.   

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!




    Bill, I've tried to help you, but you insist on posting nonsense like this. What exactly happened in the year of our lord 2000 that changed what comes out of Mexico? Please answer that one simple question.

    If you bothered to think about it, you'd be amazed how much good has come from Mexico. Just go to any American auto dealership and feast your eyes on the American cars that were built in Mexico. Go to the the grocery story and drool over all the food that comes from Mexico. Here is a nice FACT for you: "Mexico was the United States 3rd largest supplier of goods imports in 2012." If you don't believe me, here is a link about our trade with Mexico:

    http://www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

    I have been a fool to try to help you. I'll put on my dunce cap and sit in the corner hoping you will join me.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I have no problem with giving Papi a one year extension.  He has more than earned it, IMO.  I also have no problem with him saying publicly that he wants an extension. 

    What I didn't like was the "threat" of signing with another team if he didn't get what he wants.  That didn't need to be said.   As others have said, there are better ways that he could have responded to the reporter's question.

    To Papi's credit, he has since rephrased what he said originially.  At any rate, I am confident the Sox and Papi will work out an extension, and deservedly so.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    I have no problem with giving Papi a one year extension.  He has more than earned it, IMO.  I also have no problem with him saying publicly that he wants an extension. 

    What I didn't like was the "threat" of signing with another team if he didn't get what he wants.  That didn't need to be said.   As others have said, there are better ways that he could have responded to the reporter's question.

    To Papi's credit, he has since rephrased what he said originially.  At any rate, I am confident the Sox and Papi will work out an extension, and deservedly so.

     



    ^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!^^^^^^^^^^

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.




     

    Look moon.  We probably agree on the majority of your macro analysis of racism, visa vi "soft & hard core, implicit vs. Explicit" racism in THE U.S. 2000's 》》.  Nobody is going to argue your macro analysis.  What sparks a nerve, is your implicit condemnation of those who are sick & tired of Papi's negotiating style year in & year out.  I happen to disagree with them, & think Papi has an excellent opportunity to use public support given the fact that he was once again THE DRIVING FORCE behind yet another WS Campionship.  Are there likely a hand full of racists who oppose him consciously or unconsciously on racial grounds?  Of course!  The only problem I have with you is that your condemnation was definitively implicitly broader than the handfull.  & the subsequent condemnations of others who are like minded, attacking BOSTON & more broadly MASS were never corrected by you.  I get tired of liberals from other states, especially from states with far bigger racial tensions, playing the old saw about pre-1980's Boston race relations as though that is the way things still are in New England, Boston, Mass, etc....   perhaps you could tone down the blanket statements?  If you want to talk about anywhere in the U.S. we probably agree on most of your points.  Not all, but most.  I do appologize for the "behind every shaddow" comment, as that was with respect to this thread only.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I want to ad that I have watched this thread for days and nothing disgusted me more than the above post by moonslav59

     


    JD Drew was bludgeoned here in Boston, was that racist? Easily the most dissapointing post by moonslav59 ever. And I could go on and on, I use the "Drew" example as the easiest counter but obviously there is much more that could be said... but why beat a dead horse. The dead horse being "racism" as it barely registers on the national level any longer. Most of us have grown up.



    i got pulled over yesterday afternoon.

    cops (plural because 2nd cop car was "needed":  "license, insurance, registration"

    Me:  "yes officers, may i ask why you pulled me over"

    cops:  "nothing came up when we ran your plates"

    mind you i have had the same plates for over 10 years so i know darn well they are in good order.

    they took my stuff and while 1 cop went back to his car to run it, the second stood by my passenger side rear window with his 9mm unholstered.

    after 10 minutes the cop comes back and throws my identifications in the window and they speed off.

    HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS HAPPENED TO YOU?

    it happens to me all the time....

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.




    well since you brought it up, it needs to be said.

    nothing screams racist more than a white person saying "i have a black friend".

    it just makes me ask myself....why does this person feel the need to point it out??

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.




    well since you brought it up, it needs to be said.

    nothing screams racist more than a white person saying "i have a black friend".

    it just makes me ask myself....why does this person feel the need to point it out??




    Gee...  I have no idea why a conservative would ever feel the need to establish their "open-mindedness" visa vi race relations, when they are consistently, frequently, and more often than not erroniously accused of being a racist.  I feel for your recent story, & can't possibly imagine that being done to me yet again, leaving me to understandibly suspect racism.  Having said that, I feel equally outgaged by the abhorant treatment of virtually EVERY SINGLE black conservative in this country, who can count on having the "Uncle Tom" slur being hurled at them with ABSOLUTE impunity.  I find it absolutely unbelievable that in this day & age, the self-professed "most open-minded among us" could still demand that blacks be a monolithic group, & follow the playbook handed to them by their leaders, most of whom are white liberals.  Stray from the liberal orthodoxy, & there will be hell to pay.  You will be marginalized as a self-serving "Uncle-Tom."  And nobody, I mean nobody....  black or white will come to your defense.  Instead, the piling on will ensue, and you will be verbally assassinated.

    My point is not to take away from your story, which I have no doubt is very credible.  My point being.....  I absolutely can understand feeling the need to pad your "open-mindedness" on race.  Even your personal & credible understanding, by way of your personal relationships.  Do white conservatives often feel the need to innoculate themselves by mentioning their black friends?  You bet your arrrsss they do.  Yes!  My black friends get it.  Even though I'm a fiscal conservative & social liberal, it doesn't matter.  I could say it until I'm blue in the face, & all liberals hear is you are a fire-breathing neocon, gay-bashing, latent racist, simply shifting your focus to hold minorities down economically.  Even my liberal friends & collegues, who know most of my stances, often seek to lump me in with the fringe right, simply to marginalize.  It's a sad state of affairs when we are so far beyond really listening to eachother.  We all simply seek to attack & destroy with the ad hominem instead of engaging in a nuanced discussion.  There's no nuance with the Right or Left.  It's all black & white.  All in or all out.  Tow the line, or shut the hell up.

    SAD

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Oh & yes!  My black friends think it's funny as hell that my white liberal friends will give me no quarter.

    ;)  It's all good.  For the most part, they're simply playing the game of political football we all set up long ago.  All hits are good, especially those at the knees & above the shoulders.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Moon, I hope you realize I'm not railing against you - but those who still think Papi is out of order.

    No problem with that. Happy Birthday.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.

     




     

     

    Look moon.  We probably agree on the majority of your macro analysis of racism, visa vi "soft & hard core, implicit vs. Explicit" racism in THE U.S. 2000's 》》.  Nobody is going to argue your macro analysis.  What sparks a nerve, is your implicit condemnation of those who are sick & tired of Papi's negotiating style year in & year out.  I happen to disagree with them, & think Papi has an excellent opportunity to use public support given the fact that he was once again THE DRIVING FORCE behind yet another WS Campionship.  Are there likely a hand full of racists who oppose him consciously or unconsciously on racial grounds?  Of course!  The only problem I have with you is that your condemnation was definitively implicitly broader than the handfull.  & the subsequent condemnations of others who are like minded, attacking BOSTON & more broadly MASS were never corrected by you.  I get tired of liberals from other states, especially from states with far bigger racial tensions, playing the old saw about pre-1980's Boston race relations as though that is the way things still are in New England, Boston, Mass, etc....   perhaps you could tone down the blanket statements?  If you want to talk about anywhere in the U.S. we probably agree on most of your points.  Not all, but most.  I do appologize for the "behind every shaddow" comment, as that was with respect to this thread only.



    Thanks, and I apologize for my wording that appeared to lump everyone fed up with Papi's contractual antics as being based in racism. 

    I do think the venom spewed by some here against Papi is out of proportion to his deeds off season. To me, if any player in the history of Red Sox Nation deserves to ask for an extension, it is Papi this winter. That's what surprises me most about the 3-4 threads, the lengths of the threads, and the amount of anti-Papi venom in those threads. 

    Papi is a Red Sox legend. He has a unique personality that is not all about greed or selfishness, and personally, I think it isn't even a significant part of who he is.

    BTW, racism is everywhere to varying degrees. Boston is no more racist that Sugar Land, Texas as far as I can tell.

     
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