Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mike-harrington/red-sox-need-to-reward-big-papi-20140202

     

    From BUFFALO no less

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Let's not forget that the last contract the Red Sox gave Ortiz was pretty generous under the circumstances.  They guaranteed him 30 million when he was coming off an injury that kept him out almost the entire second half of the 2012 season.  Lots of people on here were complaining vociferously that they gave him too much.

    People still complain about the final contract the Sox gave Schilling, which turned out to be a parting gift.

    It's hard for the team to 'do the right thing' no matter what they do.   

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!




    Bill, I've tried to help you, but you insist on posting nonsense like this. What exactly happened in the year of our lord 2000 that changed what comes out of Mexico? Please answer that one simple question.

    If you bothered to think about it, you'd be amazed how much good has come from Mexico. Just go to any American auto dealership and feast your eyes on the American cars that were built in Mexico. Go to the the grocery story and drool over all the food that comes from Mexico. Here is a nice FACT for you: "Mexico was the United States 3rd largest supplier of goods imports in 2012." If you don't believe me, here is a link about our trade with Mexico:

    http://www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

    I have been a fool to try to help you. I'll put on my dunce cap and sit in the corner hoping you will join me.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I have no problem with giving Papi a one year extension.  He has more than earned it, IMO.  I also have no problem with him saying publicly that he wants an extension. 

    What I didn't like was the "threat" of signing with another team if he didn't get what he wants.  That didn't need to be said.   As others have said, there are better ways that he could have responded to the reporter's question.

    To Papi's credit, he has since rephrased what he said originially.  At any rate, I am confident the Sox and Papi will work out an extension, and deservedly so.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    I have no problem with giving Papi a one year extension.  He has more than earned it, IMO.  I also have no problem with him saying publicly that he wants an extension. 

    What I didn't like was the "threat" of signing with another team if he didn't get what he wants.  That didn't need to be said.   As others have said, there are better ways that he could have responded to the reporter's question.

    To Papi's credit, he has since rephrased what he said originially.  At any rate, I am confident the Sox and Papi will work out an extension, and deservedly so.

     



    ^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!^^^^^^^^^^

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.




     

    Look moon.  We probably agree on the majority of your macro analysis of racism, visa vi "soft & hard core, implicit vs. Explicit" racism in THE U.S. 2000's 》》.  Nobody is going to argue your macro analysis.  What sparks a nerve, is your implicit condemnation of those who are sick & tired of Papi's negotiating style year in & year out.  I happen to disagree with them, & think Papi has an excellent opportunity to use public support given the fact that he was once again THE DRIVING FORCE behind yet another WS Campionship.  Are there likely a hand full of racists who oppose him consciously or unconsciously on racial grounds?  Of course!  The only problem I have with you is that your condemnation was definitively implicitly broader than the handfull.  & the subsequent condemnations of others who are like minded, attacking BOSTON & more broadly MASS were never corrected by you.  I get tired of liberals from other states, especially from states with far bigger racial tensions, playing the old saw about pre-1980's Boston race relations as though that is the way things still are in New England, Boston, Mass, etc....   perhaps you could tone down the blanket statements?  If you want to talk about anywhere in the U.S. we probably agree on most of your points.  Not all, but most.  I do appologize for the "behind every shaddow" comment, as that was with respect to this thread only.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I want to ad that I have watched this thread for days and nothing disgusted me more than the above post by moonslav59

     


    JD Drew was bludgeoned here in Boston, was that racist? Easily the most dissapointing post by moonslav59 ever. And I could go on and on, I use the "Drew" example as the easiest counter but obviously there is much more that could be said... but why beat a dead horse. The dead horse being "racism" as it barely registers on the national level any longer. Most of us have grown up.



    i got pulled over yesterday afternoon.

    cops (plural because 2nd cop car was "needed":  "license, insurance, registration"

    Me:  "yes officers, may i ask why you pulled me over"

    cops:  "nothing came up when we ran your plates"

    mind you i have had the same plates for over 10 years so i know darn well they are in good order.

    they took my stuff and while 1 cop went back to his car to run it, the second stood by my passenger side rear window with his 9mm unholstered.

    after 10 minutes the cop comes back and throws my identifications in the window and they speed off.

    HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS HAPPENED TO YOU?

    it happens to me all the time....

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.




    well since you brought it up, it needs to be said.

    nothing screams racist more than a white person saying "i have a black friend".

    it just makes me ask myself....why does this person feel the need to point it out??

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    moon I don't believe one can be a true racist if they have friends, good friends, of another color or race... you can say "telling, very telling, classic" all you want.

    I totally disagree with your labeling as much as I would a pure racist verbally abusing others of different skin. In fact I am at the point where I don't care for people that take your stance any more than I care for the pure racist.

    You are all the same to me, and both are a problem.




    well since you brought it up, it needs to be said.

    nothing screams racist more than a white person saying "i have a black friend".

    it just makes me ask myself....why does this person feel the need to point it out??




    Gee...  I have no idea why a conservative would ever feel the need to establish their "open-mindedness" visa vi race relations, when they are consistently, frequently, and more often than not erroniously accused of being a racist.  I feel for your recent story, & can't possibly imagine that being done to me yet again, leaving me to understandibly suspect racism.  Having said that, I feel equally outgaged by the abhorant treatment of virtually EVERY SINGLE black conservative in this country, who can count on having the "Uncle Tom" slur being hurled at them with ABSOLUTE impunity.  I find it absolutely unbelievable that in this day & age, the self-professed "most open-minded among us" could still demand that blacks be a monolithic group, & follow the playbook handed to them by their leaders, most of whom are white liberals.  Stray from the liberal orthodoxy, & there will be hell to pay.  You will be marginalized as a self-serving "Uncle-Tom."  And nobody, I mean nobody....  black or white will come to your defense.  Instead, the piling on will ensue, and you will be verbally assassinated.

    My point is not to take away from your story, which I have no doubt is very credible.  My point being.....  I absolutely can understand feeling the need to pad your "open-mindedness" on race.  Even your personal & credible understanding, by way of your personal relationships.  Do white conservatives often feel the need to innoculate themselves by mentioning their black friends?  You bet your arrrsss they do.  Yes!  My black friends get it.  Even though I'm a fiscal conservative & social liberal, it doesn't matter.  I could say it until I'm blue in the face, & all liberals hear is you are a fire-breathing neocon, gay-bashing, latent racist, simply shifting your focus to hold minorities down economically.  Even my liberal friends & collegues, who know most of my stances, often seek to lump me in with the fringe right, simply to marginalize.  It's a sad state of affairs when we are so far beyond really listening to eachother.  We all simply seek to attack & destroy with the ad hominem instead of engaging in a nuanced discussion.  There's no nuance with the Right or Left.  It's all black & white.  All in or all out.  Tow the line, or shut the hell up.

    SAD

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Oh & yes!  My black friends think it's funny as hell that my white liberal friends will give me no quarter.

    ;)  It's all good.  For the most part, they're simply playing the game of political football we all set up long ago.  All hits are good, especially those at the knees & above the shoulders.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Moon, I hope you realize I'm not railing against you - but those who still think Papi is out of order.

    No problem with that. Happy Birthday.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    "Racism is dead, because you all said so."

    Ah!  Right there 

     

    I'm living in Texas. You all does not mean everyone.

     

    Can you name other times I have cried racism behind every shadow?

    Other than a few times with softy over the years, and once or twice about the Tommy Harper situation,  I barely speak of it.

    You can look, but you won't find it.

     

    Look, you can go on believeing that none of this or even part of this whole thing is racially motivated. That's your right. It's not racism to deny that some here are at least partially racially motivated, but it's my opinion it is being short-sighted.

     




     

     

    Look moon.  We probably agree on the majority of your macro analysis of racism, visa vi "soft & hard core, implicit vs. Explicit" racism in THE U.S. 2000's 》》.  Nobody is going to argue your macro analysis.  What sparks a nerve, is your implicit condemnation of those who are sick & tired of Papi's negotiating style year in & year out.  I happen to disagree with them, & think Papi has an excellent opportunity to use public support given the fact that he was once again THE DRIVING FORCE behind yet another WS Campionship.  Are there likely a hand full of racists who oppose him consciously or unconsciously on racial grounds?  Of course!  The only problem I have with you is that your condemnation was definitively implicitly broader than the handfull.  & the subsequent condemnations of others who are like minded, attacking BOSTON & more broadly MASS were never corrected by you.  I get tired of liberals from other states, especially from states with far bigger racial tensions, playing the old saw about pre-1980's Boston race relations as though that is the way things still are in New England, Boston, Mass, etc....   perhaps you could tone down the blanket statements?  If you want to talk about anywhere in the U.S. we probably agree on most of your points.  Not all, but most.  I do appologize for the "behind every shaddow" comment, as that was with respect to this thread only.



    Thanks, and I apologize for my wording that appeared to lump everyone fed up with Papi's contractual antics as being based in racism. 

    I do think the venom spewed by some here against Papi is out of proportion to his deeds off season. To me, if any player in the history of Red Sox Nation deserves to ask for an extension, it is Papi this winter. That's what surprises me most about the 3-4 threads, the lengths of the threads, and the amount of anti-Papi venom in those threads. 

    Papi is a Red Sox legend. He has a unique personality that is not all about greed or selfishness, and personally, I think it isn't even a significant part of who he is.

    BTW, racism is everywhere to varying degrees. Boston is no more racist that Sugar Land, Texas as far as I can tell.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    One thing is for sure..the topic of David Ortiz is good for business on BDC. I think the Ortiz threads wind up with the most hits and comments..lol

    Speaking as someone who admires Ortiz' talents on the field...but who does not admire him so much on a personal level..I will say this - the Ortiz threads become so contentious because the ardent Ortiz supporters..the ones who believe that he can do no wrong..ever..no matter what...etc must have everyone feel exactly the way they do. In their minds..there is no room for disagreement. If you are critical of Ortiz...you are immediately branded an Ortiz Hater and then subject to personal attack or insult....even though there is literally no other player on the team who is not subject to some criticisms at some times..etc...etc.

    In other words..some people believe that Ortiz is above any commentary other than 100 percent unconditional love and support for everything he say or does.

    I think you get my point. In other words there is no room for discussion or honest evaluation where our beloved Papi is concerned in the minds of some.

    It's my belief that this behavior is much worse and makes the forum much more tedious than anything the Bill806's of this forum do. It's a discussion board..where people come to discuss, share opinions, agree, disagree and learn from each other.

    A thread that has 1000+ comments where at least half of them are personal attacks at Bill ..etc. proves that quantity is NOT better than quality.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     



    folks...this is real.

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to tvfrank's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     



    folks...this is real.



    Only right wing-nuts believe racism is a non-factor. Many after Obama was elected wanted their country back. They wanted their white country back. Remember not all right-wingers are racists, but all racists are right-wingers.



    This is way way way wrong.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to tvfrank's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     



    folks...this is real.



    Only right wing-nuts believe racism is a non-factor. Many after Obama was elected wanted their country back. They wanted their white country back. Remember not all right-wingers are racists, but all racists are right-wingers.



    This is way way way wrong.




    Thank you Moon!

    it's time we took the country back from the mind-numbed blind ideologues on both political poles.

    the polemic & demagogic rhetoric is so old & tired!

    Anybody who believes that the REAL racism comes exclusively from the far Right is simply ignorant.  Time for them to grow up, put their big boy pants on, & read beyond all them journals favored by Sarah Palin.

    EPICALLY stupid!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to tvfrank's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     



    folks...this is real.



    Only right wing-nuts believe racism is a non-factor. Many after Obama was elected wanted their country back. They wanted their white country back. Remember not all right-wingers are racists, but all racists are right-wingers.




    Looks like we finally found someone on the Far Left to match wits with the prescient socio-political commentary from Billy?

    Brilliant!

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Just a wild guess TVfrank....

    you keep it tuned exclusively to The Cartoon Network and MSNBC?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     




    My last boss in America was black... my Die-Hard Left-Liberal friend made the comment "he only has his job because he is black".... 

    And I voted for Obama patly because he was black... I simply got tired of Aussies, Britts, and Canadians telling me "America is too racist to elect a black President"... which I disagreed with.

    Portland Maine has a lot of ethnic diversity in the city now, I do not know what you are talking about moon unless you are so elite you live ina gated community and sent your kids to Waynefleet.

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I lived in Portland, Maine for most of my life. Maine is about as white a state as can be, and was more so when I lived there than now (1972-2004).

    We lived in a middle class residential area. I have 5 sisters and both parents still living. Since 1972, not one of my family has ever been pulled over by a cop in our neighborhood- not even once. 

    I have a sister who lives in Brazil. She has an adopted child who is black. They come to maine every summer, but spend 90% of the time on Sebago Lake not at the Portland house, so my guess is they have been in the Portland neighborhood maybe 15-20 days over the last 10 years. My black nephew has been pulled over 5 times in our neighborhood, which is about 20% of the times he has driven there. He not an erratic driver, he doesn't even drink booze, and he wasn't speeding.

    It's obvious to me, what it is all about, and for the black man in America to hear that racism is a nonfactor or is on the way out has to be as disheartening as the acts of racism themselves.

     




    My last boss in America was black... my Die-Hard Left-Liberal friend made the comment "he only has his job because he is black".... 

    And I voted for Obama patly because he was black... I simply got tired of Aussies, Britts, and Canadians telling me "America is too racist to elect a black President"... which I disagreed with.

    Portland Maine has a lot of ethnic diversity in the city now, I do not know what you are talking about moon unless you are so elite you live ina gated community and sent your kids to Waynefleet.



    I don't know any gated communities in Portland.

    I lived in the city limits near Westbrook. Houses there go for about $140-200K now, but my dad bought ours for $30K back in '72.

    What I am taking about ir reality. Your doubting this happened is telling... very telling.

    Thousands of time my white family members have driven down my street to our house. We have never been pulled over. Never. My black nephew maybe has driven 20-25 times to our home. He has been pulled over 5 times. It's the truth. Go on denying it all you want. I was in the car 2 of the times, and I believe my nephew about the other 3 times, since once the cop came and knocked on our door to ask if he was staying with us. They had pulled him over 1 house down from ours.

     

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • Sections
    Shortcuts