Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:

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    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     

    [/QUOTE]  MOON,  I am disappointed in you, of all people to be playing "the race card" here........No need for it at all..... All of Red Sox NATION loves PAPI and everything that he has done in & out of his RED SOX uni .......  That being said, there is always two sides of the baseball/business transactions .......   Yes, I have admitted SEVERAL times that "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PAPI IN 2013" as he not only got back on the field, had a real goooood year, and put "us on his back " for the playoffs &  W S ......  Butttt, the SOX are in a tough place based on age, health concerns (this year or down the road) and the evidence that when PAPI is done, the  D H position will take on a new look......  I have been called out constantly for my posts by a lot of posters who think that an opinion on this board is always got to be one way, the race card many times... Now I see you playing that card and I am appalled by it .  Again, as a 40,000 + poster, and one of the great voices on this board, may I suggest that you step up and walk the race card back, you are a better person than that !!!   B-806 & DAD ....


     

    [/QUOTE]


    So wait a second......he shares his very candid OPINION and you don't like it so you want him to take it back?  Aren't you the same person that when you get blasted for your opinion you state that 'it's my opinion and I won't let the Lib, Rad, Moonbats control my opinion'......

    Does that seem fair at all Bill??  Does it seem right?  So I guess you're calling yourself a Lib.....good job hypocrite!! 

    [/QUOTE]And you KINGFISH are off base too....  Opinions are opinions and that is what this board is all about......  The "RACE CARD" on this board is 99% garbage......  I get called for it all the time when my posts are based on "what I see on the field" as well as the business side of all/MLB sports today......  Moon is to goooood of a poster to suggest that CARD.....  Looks like a lot of posters agree with me today !!


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    Ok there allstar.....  Let me remind you and everybody here.  You are the same guy that got kicked off the forum TWICE last year.  The first time was because of the following quote in your THREAD TITLE FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE: 

    "Has anything good ever come out of Mexico"

    Remember that little gem?  Do you also remember how you fought and fought and it came to the point where you eventually offended so many here that you got banned.  So yeah, don't give me and garbage about how your unjustly targeted.  You reap what you sow big guy.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When Carl Crawford was with the Red Sox and in rehab and playing in a minor league game in NH and an off duty cop shouted a racial slur at him and was subsequently disciplined , didn't this forum have a dozen threads where many posters sided with the cop? Now those threads would be a much better indicator of racism in the forum than those who like to pick on Papi on a daily basis merely just to stir the forum pot.

    Didn't the days of slurring a black player from the stands end 60 years ago? "When will they ever learn".

    [/QUOTE]

    Careful. They'll accuse you of playing the "race card".

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:

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    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     

    [/QUOTE]  MOON,  I am disappointed in you, of all people to be playing "the race card" here........No need for it at all..... All of Red Sox NATION loves PAPI and everything that he has done in & out of his RED SOX uni .......  That being said, there is always two sides of the baseball/business transactions .......   Yes, I have admitted SEVERAL times that "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PAPI IN 2013" as he not only got back on the field, had a real goooood year, and put "us on his back " for the playoffs &  W S ......  Butttt, the SOX are in a tough place based on age, health concerns (this year or down the road) and the evidence that when PAPI is done, the  D H position will take on a new look......  I have been called out constantly for my posts by a lot of posters who think that an opinion on this board is always got to be one way, the race card many times... Now I see you playing that card and I am appalled by it .  Again, as a 40,000 + poster, and one of the great voices on this board, may I suggest that you step up and walk the race card back, you are a better person than that !!!   B-806 & DAD ....


     

    [/QUOTE]


    So wait a second......he shares his very candid OPINION and you don't like it so you want him to take it back?  Aren't you the same person that when you get blasted for your opinion you state that 'it's my opinion and I won't let the Lib, Rad, Moonbats control my opinion'......

    Does that seem fair at all Bill??  Does it seem right?  So I guess you're calling yourself a Lib.....good job hypocrite!! 

    [/QUOTE]And you KINGFISH are off base too....  Opinions are opinions and that is what this board is all about......  The "RACE CARD" on this board is 99% garbage......  I get called for it all the time when my posts are based on "what I see on the field" as well as the business side of all/MLB sports today......  Moon is to goooood of a poster to suggest that CARD.....  Looks like a lot of posters agree with me today !!


    [/QUOTE]

    Ok there allstar.....  Let me remind you and everybody here.  You are the same guy that got kicked off the forum TWICE last year.  The first time was because of the following quote in your THREAD TITLE FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE: 

    "Has anything good ever come out of Mexico"

    Remember that little gem?  Do you also remember how you fought and fought and it came to the point where you eventually offended so many here that you got banned.  So yeah, don't give me and garbage about how your unjustly targeted.  You reap what you sow big guy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, what Bill said was "Nothing good has ever come out of Mexico". It was so obtuse that its hard to get out of my mind......the quintessence of bigotry.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I have not called everyone who is critical of Papi a racist, but pretending that his skin color has had nothing to do with some of the venom displayed here is being naive or an act of denial.

    To say there is no example of what Papi is doing out there in the real world is insane. Look what Oprah and other entertainers get for drawing people to them. Look what top execs get paid for delivering. Look what some get paid for not delivering.

    It's the American way to go out and try to get the most you can grab. While there are examples of some players taking "home town discounts", the vast majority of sports and entertainment people go all out to maximize their take. To single out Papi and go to such lengths to minimize his value to this club since 2003 by picking out the few times he failed to lead this club to a ring in a manifestation of failed logic. No Sox player has ever done more to raise this club out of it's long slump of ineffectiveness than Papi. His 2004, 2007 and 2013 playoff performances alone more than make-up for his partially injury-related slump from age 32-34.

    I've never come close to saying we owe him the $40M regular season underpay fangraphs has him at, but it is clear he was underpaid since 2003. I realize that management has the right to profit from theiur player's performances, and the Sox have made much more than $40M on Papi alone. They have lost money on other players. They can't go back and ask for that back. I get that.

    I get the risk involved with extending a 37 year old player with a little injury history and a past 3 year down stretch. I'm not advocating a 3-4 year extension and never cam eclose to saying so.

    I am defending Papi's position of seeking the most he can get based on the fact that no other Sox player has the resume Papi does. Even when he slumped vs the tough Tiger pitching staff, he had the biggest hit in the series, and perhaps all of Sox history- the grand slam that took us out of the jaws of defeat.

    There should be a statue of Papi outside Fenway Park. That's not some obsessed hero worship. That's just the plain truth.

    The vitriol against Papi that has been going on for years on this site is just plain sick. I'm not backing down from my position that some of it has been racially motivated. I would not fault any black player for never wanting to play for fans like some of the ones here. It is what it is. Denying it just adds to the problem.

    Stop with "you're playing the race card" mantra. It's plain denial.

    Seriously, there are about 5 Papi threads on the top now...for what? Ask yourself, "for what?" If you want to pretend his "crime" fits the punishement, then you're a lost cause.

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    Excellent post Moon and I can't agree with you more.  I sincerely believe that there are really only two posters here (one is no longer with us) whose bigotry can come into question....but I do often wonder if Papi were not from the D.R. if he would be getting so much angst.  It's almost like a 'hidden' type of racism that people do not realize they have until it's pointed out. 

    Thank you for being brave enough 'to go there' and not back down from your point.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:

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    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     

    [/QUOTE]  MOON,  I am disappointed in you, of all people to be playing "the race card" here........No need for it at all..... All of Red Sox NATION loves PAPI and everything that he has done in & out of his RED SOX uni .......  That being said, there is always two sides of the baseball/business transactions .......   Yes, I have admitted SEVERAL times that "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PAPI IN 2013" as he not only got back on the field, had a real goooood year, and put "us on his back " for the playoffs &  W S ......  Butttt, the SOX are in a tough place based on age, health concerns (this year or down the road) and the evidence that when PAPI is done, the  D H position will take on a new look......  I have been called out constantly for my posts by a lot of posters who think that an opinion on this board is always got to be one way, the race card many times... Now I see you playing that card and I am appalled by it .  Again, as a 40,000 + poster, and one of the great voices on this board, may I suggest that you step up and walk the race card back, you are a better person than that !!!   B-806 & DAD ....


     

    [/QUOTE]


    So wait a second......he shares his very candid OPINION and you don't like it so you want him to take it back?  Aren't you the same person that when you get blasted for your opinion you state that 'it's my opinion and I won't let the Lib, Rad, Moonbats control my opinion'......

    Does that seem fair at all Bill??  Does it seem right?  So I guess you're calling yourself a Lib.....good job hypocrite!! 

    [/QUOTE]And you KINGFISH are off base too....  Opinions are opinions and that is what this board is all about......  The "RACE CARD" on this board is 99% garbage......  I get called for it all the time when my posts are based on "what I see on the field" as well as the business side of all/MLB sports today......  Moon is to goooood of a poster to suggest that CARD.....  Looks like a lot of posters agree with me today !!


    [/QUOTE]

    Ok there allstar.....  Let me remind you and everybody here.  You are the same guy that got kicked off the forum TWICE last year.  The first time was because of the following quote in your THREAD TITLE FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE: 

    "Has anything good ever come out of Mexico"

    Remember that little gem?  Do you also remember how you fought and fought and it came to the point where you eventually offended so many here that you got banned.  So yeah, don't give me and garbage about how your unjustly targeted.  You reap what you sow big guy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, what Bill said was "Nothing good has ever come out of Mexico". It was so obtuse that its hard to get out of my mind......the quintessence of bigotry.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     You're 100% correct......my bad!  I hate misquoting!  I still am shellshocked that he actually defended his stance the way he did.  Sad.....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Two separate issues got intertwined, the possibilty that some of the criticsm at Papi is racist, and the fact that Bill is often critical of Papi. That does not make him a racist, even if he gets his news from Fox. Not a racist. Bill is not a racist.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree that Bill is not a racist. He's a xenophobe.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
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    I think another elephant in the room is that everyone knows that Ortiz's time is coming to an end soon...  I for one will be very sad to see Ortiz retire or have to move on... it will break my heart as a fan.  I think when people make a connection to a sports figure and they know the time is limited, reactions can sour. 



    Yes, one day Papi will decline beyond his value, probably sooner than some of us want it to be.

    I can understand not wanting to pay a guy for an extra year or two beyond that point, but if anyone ever deserved pay for past legendary performance, it would be Papi. I'm not making a case for that as the reason for extending Papi. I know we have him over a barrell with this whole qualifying offer system, and the fact that his "open market" value would be severely lessened for another team not wanting to lose a draft pick to sign a guy for 1 or 2 years tops, but is that what Sox management really wants to do to a legend? The legend?

    The Sox do have a history of letting legends walk to free agency, such as Pedro Martinez, but Pedro made out fine the way that system was back then. The Sox also have a history of paying legends into old age, and even beyond out of respect for heroic acts on the field when it counts.

    They paid Schilling big money until 2007, despite the fact that he turned 41 that Novemeber, then out of gratitude gave him a "golden parachute" $8M for 2008, even though he never pitched an inning. I don't recall any posters complaining about paying the "great white hope" for past heroics. The bloody sock was worth it all, right? I'm saddened to admit that I am not shocked that so many clowns here, who said nothing about Schillings' deal, are making such a big deal about Papi answering a question by an interviewer, and saying he'd like to stay with the Sox longer and get an extension.

    The hatred and vitriol has come to be the norm. Sad but true.

     

     

    ...When all it sees at the hiring time is the line on the color bar

    That's just the way it is
    Some things will never change
    That's just the way it is...

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Other than Stiffy playing the reverse-racism charge against ALL Boston fans, in a naked attempt to turn the tables on folks calling his rants racist, the "RACISM" charge is patently absurd, moreover it's really getting old.

    I highly doubt that more than .1 % of Boston fans take potchots at Papi due to racism.  It's akin to every substantive schots at Obama being chalked up to racism.  It's beyond old!

    If some on this board want to jump on Stiffy's "racism" claims, it's time to check yourself.  The self-flagelation is tired.  

    Ironic.......

    Papi is the MOST BELOVED sports figure in Boston RIGHT NOW!

    Schill is one of the most reviled!  How did all that "white hope" love dissipate so quickly?

     

    Some of you want to jump into Stiffy's trap on this subject?  Good on ya!  Brilliant!  Play into the old stereotypes of Boston, as the Stiffler is want for you to do??  Have at it.  Again...  Brilliant.  You're making his day.  "Oh...  It's not me who I'm calling racist, it's those other Bostonians...  You know...."  Really?   Get over it!

    Papi is so far beyond beloved!  It's time to stop focusing on a relative FEW nitwits who truly are racist, as though Boston is unique in having a few racists in their midst?  Time to take a drive around this country......   Boston is FAR FROM unique in this regard.  In fact, I'd put money on the FACT that Boston is far more "progressive" in their views about differing races co-existing in harmony.  Again.......  Get over yourselves on this point.  You want to self-flagelate?  Go for it.  Just leave the rest of us out of your fantasy world.

    I'm as liberal as they come on matters of race & social politics, but I'm sick and tire of the nonsense on this issue!  You want to beat up on Boston on this issue?  Go do it someplace else!

    [/QUOTE]


    Once again....   It's getting old.  & when you start driving the Massachusetts TurnPIKE to drive. Your point home, odds are.....  "You're going the wrong way."  (Planes, Trains, & Automobiles). Thank you John Candy and Steve Martin!

     

    ;)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    NOT directed at Moon.  I respect his right to his opinion.  Just a few questions....

    Have we gotten so far to the edge of political correctness that anytime a person of color gets castigated for something that person says, the castigation is because of their race?

    What about, "I just plain don't agree with him"?  Do we have to agree with everything a person of color says or risk being called a racist?

    Anyone of any race, creed or color has just as much right to be wrong as I do - and race has nothing to do with it!  :-)

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, I can't stand the POTUS, but it has everything to do with his policies and beliefs than his color. Yet people will always pull the race card in a political discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    yea, his policy of ending two wars is really offensive.  Turning around the auto industry still offends me.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just stated the fact the Bill loves iggy and hates Drew.

    I guess Bill is just racist against some hispanics but not all of them, and likes some white guys but not all of them.

    oh...wait.

    I actually like Ortiz but get bugged by the fact that he whines about money so I guess I am just kinda racist.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is no doubt that 37 stories is one of the biggest Ortiz fans on this forum.  When the contract whines by Ortiz annoy 37, enough said.

    From a business point of view Ben will most likely let Ortiz finish out his contract then give him a qualifying offer.  Then Ortiz will test the market, well half the market.  Then among the teams who still use full time DH's and then those which are in the market for one.

    Who knows what John Henry will do.  If Ortiz wants to take over Johnny Pesky's role, that will be fine by me.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    yea, his policy of ending two wars is really offensive.  Turning around the auto industry still offends me.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not to make this a political debate, the taxpayers bailed out the auto industry and have not been paid back. Yes, that offends me. Not to mention it went into effect when Bush was president.

    Number 2, the Iraqi withdrawal was a bilateral agreement signed by Bush and I would hardly consider the Afghan war "over".

    [/QUOTE]


    yes, this should be for the political board.  Despite Bush's agreement, McCain and bunch wanted to stay there.  Romney and friends wanted the auto industry to fail.  And yes, the tax payers have been paid back not to mention the jobs saved and created.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    and what's an Ortiz discussion without a contribution from ol' CHB...the Shankmeister Tongue Out......David Ortiz’s contract talk is selfish, offensive

    By Dan Shaughnessy

    David Ortiz was on Boston television the other night. Guess what he was talking about?

    His contract.

    Big Papi loves to complain about his contract. He’s never satisfied unless he has a multiyear contract. It’s about respect, I guess.

    Sorry, but it’s also tone-deaf, selfish, and offensive.

    Let’s get all the qualifiers out of the way: David Ortiz has earned his place as one of the most clutch and popular athletes in the history of Boston sports. He has been here 11 years, and was the only Sox player on all three championship teams of the 21st century. He is the greatest designated hitter in baseball history. He was MVP of last year’s World Series, when he batted .688 in six games against the Cardinals. He hit the grand slam that turned around the AL Championship Series and compiled a .353 postseason batting average with an OPS of 1.206. He did all that after hitting .309 with 30 homers and 103 RBIs during the 2013 season.

    Ortiz is a legitimate Fenway god. He’s also smart, thoughtful, caring, and charitable. He has time for everyone. He is Boston Baseball’s Father Christmas, a latter-day Bambino. Sports Illustrated almost made him 2013’s Sportsman of the Year.

    Ortiz is a guy who can drop an F-bomb on live television and be madly applauded for his eloquence. Even the boss of the FCC said it was OK. After all, it was Big Papi.

    Ortiz is the leader who gathered his teammates in the dugout in St. Louis and told them to play like champions. And then they played like champions.

    So why does he need to threaten the Sox by saying it will be “time to move on’’ if he doesn’t get a contract extension?

    Please.

    Let’s try to remember that Ortiz is signed for the upcoming season. The Sox will pay him $15 million to bat four times per game in 2014. And by today’s standards, he deserves every penny. He might even be a bargain.

    “I always keep on telling people this is a business,’’ Papi told Channel 4’s Steve Burton Sunday. “Sometimes you’ve got to do what’s best for you and your family.’’

    At the end of this season, Ortiz’s career earnings will be north of $127 million. Good for him. He’s at the top of his profession and he has earned his money. But don’t tell us this is about the family.

    It’s simply bad business for the Red Sox to talk about a contract extension for a DH who will be 39 years old at the end of his present contract. The Sox would be nuts to cave on this (let’s not forget that John Henry might need extra cash to take care of hard-working newspaper people).

    The Sox know what it’s like to have dead money on the books. After Curt Schilling staggered through the 2007 playoffs, winning on smarts and guile, someone thought it would be a good idea to bring him back for $8 million in 2008. Schilling never threw another pitch in the big leagues.

    Ortiz might be a great hitter for a few more years, but his insistence on getting another multiyear deal smacks of a guy who wants to get paid for a year after he’s finished.

    Let’s see how he looks in 2014 and then talk about it. What is the risk for the Red Sox? Where is the market for Ortiz? Does anyone think another team will offer Ortiz a multiyear deal that would start in the year he turns 40? Are we kidding here?

    Big Papi simply has no leverage. National League teams won’t hire him and the Red Sox are just about the only team still paying big bucks to a full-time DH. Folks like the Yankees, Angels, and Rangers already are stocked with fat contracts for older players who have trouble staying on the field. I’d certainly take my chances on another team coming at Ortiz with a multiyear deal after the 2014 season.

    The only reason to extend Ortiz now would be to make him feel the love. You’d agree to pay him for two years so that he’ll be sure to give you a good season in 2014. That’s emotional extortion. Whatever happened to simply honoring your contract? Especially when you are nearing the end of your career?

    Talking about his ability to keep playing into his 40s, Ortiz said, “It could be two years, it could be three years, it could be 10.’’

    Very funny. But while we’re chuckling about this, remember that Ortiz was released in 2002. He came to Boston in 2003 and turned his career around. That’s also the year he failed a drug test. In 2010, he was again on the threshold of being released. The Sox were “resting” him against some lefties and pinch hitting for him against tough lefties in late innings.

    Now he has turned things around again. Last year he looked like the best 38-year-old hitter in the history of baseball.

    Swell. Way to go, Big Papi. Everybody loves you. But you have no leverage. Please stop talking about a contract extension and honor the deal you signed

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Why would tax payers be "paid back"?  The whole point of taxes is a collective contribution to our society.  Bailing out the auto industry was not supposed to be a loan to tax payers.  Maintaining a semblance of industrial power was the indirect financial gain goal of that expenditure.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    yes, this should be for the political board.  Despite Bush's agreement, McCain and bunch wanted to stay there.  Romney and friends wanted the auto industry to fail.  And yes, the tax payers have been paid back not to mention the jobs saved and created.

    [/QUOTE]

    The taxpayers were paid back??!! I never saw a check in my mailbox!!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/12/16/general-motors-gm-bailout-repayment/4043607/

    [/QUOTE]

    As this article correctly points out, the cost of doing nothing was not zero.

    http://wardsauto.com/blog/dear-taxpayer-your-auto-bailout-loan-repaid-interest

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    yes, this should be for the political board.  Despite Bush's agreement, McCain and bunch wanted to stay there.  Romney and friends wanted the auto industry to fail.  And yes, the tax payers have been paid back not to mention the jobs saved and created.

    [/QUOTE]

    The taxpayers were paid back??!! I never saw a check in my mailbox!!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/12/16/general-motors-gm-bailout-repayment/4043607/

    [/QUOTE]


    I have ten links proving my statement.  Look at where unemployment was and where it is now.  The housing market is stronger the stock market is better than his first day, as well as 401K's.  Get over it, he did a better job than most thought or wished.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Sorry, you will never get me to believe that tax payer money should be used to save failing public corporations.

    And, no, the money was not paid back. It may have averted other costs, but it was not paid back.

    And I'm sorry, I will never agree that my tax dollars should be used to pay union workers benefits.



     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can understand that position and, in general, I agree with it. However, sometimes you have to look at the bottom line and agree to swallow something bitter in order to avoid something even worse. I think that was the case here. An unemployment rate of 21% in the midwest and its accompanying costs to the taxpayers was simply not an option.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Sorry, you will never get me to believe that tax payer money should be used to save failing public corporations.

    And, no, the money was not paid back. It may have averted other costs, but it was not paid back.

    And I'm sorry, I will never agree that my tax dollars should be used to pay union workers benefits.



     

    [/QUOTE]


    Then you have an issue with George W's policies as well because he started the bailouts.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    yes, this should be for the political board.  Despite Bush's agreement, McCain and bunch wanted to stay there.  Romney and friends wanted the auto industry to fail.  And yes, the tax payers have been paid back not to mention the jobs saved and created.

    [/QUOTE]

    The taxpayers were paid back??!! I never saw a check in my mailbox!!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/12/16/general-motors-gm-bailout-repayment/4043607/

    [/QUOTE]


    I have ten links proving my statement.  Look at where unemployment was and where it is now.  The housing market is stronger the stock market is better than his first day, as well as 401K's.  Get over it, he did a better job than most thought or wished.

    [/QUOTE]


    Please provide those links.


    I won't hold my breath, since this is another of your make-believe stories. Good grief, bring this to the political forum... they need a good laugh up there.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Sorry, you will never get me to believe that tax payer money should be used to save failing public corporations.

    And, no, the money was not paid back. It may have averted other costs, but it was not paid back.

    And I'm sorry, I will never agree that my tax dollars should be used to pay union workers benefits.



     

    [/QUOTE]

    The bailouts speak to an interesting potential unity of purpose amongst all of us polarized political publicans:  they failed both a "conservative" vision of free markets (in which the market dictates failure or success of industry with no governmental interference) and a "progressive" vision (in which corporations that are fiscally irresponsible or downright cheaters are punished for not acting in the interest of the society at large).  The problem is far more intrinsic and systemic than republican or democrat ideologies.  

     
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