Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to steven11's comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to royf19's comment:
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    And to be clear --

    Ortiz is only asking for a one-year extension.

    As for why no other DH gets what Ortiz does.

    It's because the difference in production between him (No. 1) and the No. 2 DH is greater the diffrerence between No. 1 and No. 2 at all other positions.

    So the reason why teams don't play DH's what Ortiz is getting is because they're simply not worth it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Papi is a DH.  It is said the DH of the Papi mold is a dinaosaur.  Papi is a dinosaur who hits .700 in the World Series.  Do the prehistoric math.

    [/QUOTE]


    He is  perfect for the red sox but like already discussed there are only a few teams who could use him and less who will give up a first round choice and offer two years at what he wants per year. Despite his lack of leverage on the bargaining table, the sox will take care of him.

    [/QUOTE]

    He's a middle-of-the-order power bat. There are a lot of teams that can use him. His age and loss of a first-round pick for someone his age is a legit reason why the market might be slim. But if he was 30, he'd have a huge market even being "just a DH." My point it's not that teams aren't looking for a player like him -- DH-only power bat. They're simply not out there.

    If Ortiz was 30 and teams had a choice of him as a DH-only player and his 30-100 .950-plus OPS or rotating a different players at DH who combine for 15-70 .750 OPS, they'd rather at him.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!

     

    I rest my case.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to southpaw777's comment:
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    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
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    In response to S5's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
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    The vitriol against Papi that has been going on for years on this site is just plain sick. I'm not backing down from my position that some of it has been racially motivated. I would not fault any black player for never wanting to play for fans like some of the ones here. It is what it is. Denying it just adds to the problem.

    Stop with "you're playing the race card" mantra. It's plain denial.


    Sorry Moon. I think you are off base here. You don't have to back down from your opinion that some of the vitriol against Ortiz is race based, but I think the same vitriol would be present had a white player been so public with his whining about respect and salary. I have not seen a single post here about Ortiz that I could label as racist. Its ALL about his behavior, NOT about the color of his skin.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not about just being upset with Papi's behavior. It has gone way beyond that for some here. Look at the amount of threads, the length of the threads, and some of the vile talk about Papi on these threads.

    It's hard for me to think some of it is not racially based. When a few of the posters here, who have a long history of making racial or bigoted tsatements flock to every thread about Papi quicker than lightening, the flag is raised. Then, when the classic statement, "don't play the race card" follows, I'm of the opinion that some here are in serious denial, unconcious or otherwise.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, I'll buy that since I'd would never say that race is not the agenda of some who post here.  I don't have that knowledge so I won't dispute what you say.  However, I believe the clear majority of us, even those who have been critical of Papi for his behavior, DON'T have race as a motivating factor in our posts.

    I would only point out that it offends some of us to be painted with that same broad brush - which is what happened at the beginning of this thread.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Some here are pretty clearing bigoted....just a few....and I do not want to be painted like that either. When I responded to Moon's assertion I was referring to this thread only, but I guess you really can't do that. Those who harbor race based feelings against Ortiz will do it on every thread about him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I believe some folks posts about papi here involves race. Those that dont like him, will flock to these threads and add 100 posts to their total in one day. I could name 2 or 3 off the top of my head. Those people will never change and I just ignore there nonsense.

    My complaint is that so many here were quick to call Papi a whiner about his contract. He was asked questions about it from a reporter and answered them. If the Sox dont show interest in resigning Papi after his deal is up, what did some here expect him to say? He will go somewhere else and play if he and another team feels he can still go. He wanted 1 more year added to his deal when asked about it. Hes earned it IMHO. This was really a non story that fans and the media turned into a big deal. He never said anything about respect but some here are apparently still all bowed up about last years interviews.

    Theres like 4 threads here on the topic clogging up the 1st page.

    [/QUOTE]May I suggest that the BOARD HISTORIAN check the threads on "FAT-CAT BECKETT$, DREW brothers, Jacoby, Salty, Papelbon, and many others over the years........   As "would be  G M's, we have to make DECISIONS !!!!   Thats all, nothing more !!


    [/QUOTE]

    Honestly, and some here may not agree with me, but I didnt think your Papi bashing had anything to do with race. Maybe Im wrong, but thats how I feel. You constant bashing and creating multiple threads on the same subject is very trollish and annoying, but not racial.

    I didnt mention the names of the 2 or 3 that came to my mind, but I guess you still feel the need to defend yourself. interesting.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    [/QUOTE]

    "Nothing good ever came out of Mexico". Nuff said.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill=the ultimate hypocrite.....

    [/QUOTE]OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Really???  SMH. 

    Bill, i honestly believe you should be banned from this site now.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    [/QUOTE]

    "Nothing good ever came out of Mexico". Nuff said.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill=the ultimate hypocrite.....

    [/QUOTE]OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Really???  SMH. 

    Bill, i honestly believe you should be banned from this site now.

    [/QUOTE]

    He doesn't even try and hide his bogotry, and yet some here claim his posts are not influenced by bigotry.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    The occasional "Dominican=PED user" talk and innuendo about his age does raise an eyebrow.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The thread where so many in the forum said that the Leominster cop was OK by them in shouting a racial slur at Carl Crawford was from July, 2012. The archives do not go back that far.

    [/QUOTE]


    i think it does.  maybe i will try to hunt it.  btw - it would be great if this site had a "search" function....  Mods???

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    [/QUOTE]

    "Nothing good ever came out of Mexico". Nuff said.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill=the ultimate hypocrite.....

    [/QUOTE]OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Really???  SMH. 

    Bill, i honestly believe you should be banned from this site now.

    [/QUOTE]

    He doesn't even try and hide his bogotry, and yet some here claim his posts are not influenced by bigotry.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm beginning to think he doesn't understand the meaning of bigotry.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:

    The thread where so many in the forum said that the Leominster cop was OK by them in shouting a racial slur at Carl Crawford was from July, 2012. The archives do not go back that far.

     




    i think it does.  maybe i will try to hunt it.  btw - it would be great if this site had a "search" function....  Mods???

     




    There used to be one...don't know why it was taken away.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to Kingface12's comment:
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    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
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    In response to Bill-806's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    It's not about just being upset with Papi's behavior. It has gone way beyond that for some here. Look at the amount of threads, the length of the threads, and some of the vile talk about Papi on these threads.

    It's hard for me to think some of it is not racially based. When a few of the posters here, who have a long history of making racial or bigoted tsatements flock to every thread about Papi quicker than lightening, the flag is raised. Then, when the classic statement, "don't play the race card" follows, I'm of the opinion that some here are in serious denial, unconcious or otherwise.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, I'll buy that since I'd would never say that race is not the agenda of some who post here.  I don't have that knowledge so I won't dispute what you say.  However, I believe the clear majority of us, even those who have been critical of Papi for his behavior, DON'T have race as a motivating factor in our posts.

    I would only point out that it offends some of us to be painted with that same broad brush - which is what happened at the beginning of this thread.   

     

    I did not mean in any way to imply that everyone who is critical of Papi is racist, and I thought I was pretty clear from the start on that.

    I'm not backing down from my original position that some of this extreme vitriol is race-based.

    Papi is a legend. The fact that he wears his heart on his sleeve and airs his beliefs publically should not incite this much outright hatred and bashing. 

    There are posters here who flock to every thread about Papi and spout the same extreme crahpola. One has never given him one compliment without some negative comment attached. ..ever!  When you couple that with the fact that he hero worships this boards biggest racist/bigot and has made statements before that show his bigotry, then yeah, I'm not backing down from my opinion.

    [/QUOTE]Thanks MOON ..... "LET ME BE CLEAR",   I think most people know that B-806 is "an equal opportunity critic" !!


    [/QUOTE]

    "Nothing good ever came out of Mexico". Nuff said.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill=the ultimate hypocrite.....

    [/QUOTE]OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks for 'biting' Bill.  You'll be hearing from the BDC mods soon......

    tick tock....tick tock....tick tock.....tick tock.....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I'm beginning to think he doesn't understand the meaning of bigotry.

    I'm beginning to think those that defend him and soty as not being bigots don't know the meaning of the word either.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    My complaint is that so many here were quick to call Papi a whiner about his contract. He was asked questions about it from a reporter and answered them. If the Sox dont show interest in resigning Papi after his deal is up, what did some here expect him to say? He will go somewhere else and play if he and another team feels he can still go. He wanted 1 more year added to his deal when asked about it. Hes earned it IMHO. This was really a non story that fans and the media turned into a big deal. He never said anything about respect but some here are apparently still all bowed up about last years interviews.

    Theres like 4 threads here on the topic clogging up the 1st page.

     

    +100

    Can anyone imagine this even being noticed if the player in question was almost anyone other than David Ortiz? A guy with one year left on his contract hints that if he does not receive an offer that is to his liking, he could go elsewhere. OMG, the horror.

     



    I think the bigger question is...who cares if people think Ortiz is a whiner.

     

    I already said it but...to me Ortiz is a great player, a good guy and a whiner.

    Who cares? Can't I be a fan of the guy and still think he whines a lot?  My girlfriend whines a lot too and I still thnk she is pretty cool.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And I don't think you have the 'nads to say it to either one of them. Wink

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Papi is a simple man.  RS pay him to hit the ball long, hard and often - not split the atom or be a pr genius with the press hounds.  Papi is also emotional - when he is happy, he has million dollar smile and swing... when he is not, he cannot hide it such as with marathon bombing or dragging out contract negotiations.

    The FO, fans, media and whole baseball world understand that when he is down to 1 yr he gets nervous and begins to feel as if he isn't getting due respect.  A journalist getting him to say something about it is like shooting fish in a barrel and it goes viral and Papi has to try to defend himself.

    All he wants is a little piece of mind and a year or 2 tacked on.  Crumbs from the Red Sox table in the scheme of the things.  So all the folks balking at him over this latest comment the media blew up should ask themselves if they really want him batting against the RS?  Think you feared Cano?  I'd fear Papi a lot more stepping up to bat in pinstripes.

    Sure baseball is a business, but its more than just a business.  Any RS fan hoping or willing to cut ties with Papi at this point over a few dollars isn't much of a fan in my book.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    posted at 1/27/2014 11:24 PM EST

    • moonslav59
    • Posts: 39936
    • First: 9/27/2005
    • Last: 1/31/2014

    Because of racism and people being afraid to call it that.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    I want to ad that I have watched this thread for days and nothing disgusted me more than the above post by moonslav59

     


    JD Drew was bludgeoned here in Boston, was that racist? Easily the most dissapointing post by moonslav59 ever. And I could go on and on, I use the "Drew" example as the easiest counter but obviously there is much more that could be said... but why beat a dead horse. The dead horse being "racism" as it barely registers on the national level any longer. Most of us have grown up.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!

     

    I rest my case.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats fine, but it was MY case to rest. The sad part is that Bill doesn't even see where his attitude is bigoted-and thats the first step to fix it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     



    "Nothing good ever came out of Mexico". Nuff said.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill=the ultimate hypocrite.....

    [/QUOTE]OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Really???  SMH. 

    Bill, i honestly believe you should be banned from this site now.

    [/QUOTE]

    He doesn't even try and hide his bogotry, and yet some here claim his posts are not influenced by bigotry.

    [/QUOTE]


    Moon,

    Here in lies the problem I have with your thesis.  Of course Bill, Stiffy, et al. have a decidedly obvious inclination toward the "race baiting.....  racist......  bigoted......  etc.....   The problem I have with you, & this line of thinking is that it is so intellectually lazy.  As a fiscal conservative / social liberal to moderate, I take great offense in your broad brush painting of ALL conservatives as being bigoted, a la MSNBC's mantra.  It's sad!  & below you!  If you have a problem with an individual displaying quasi "racist" /. bigoted rhetoric, then call them out.  Don't play this mamby pamby game of alluding to "racist" rhetoric by "some" on this board.  Man up & call it what it is at the time that it is said.  I AGREE.....  that Bill & Stiffy routinely traffic in this word play.  So just FFFFFF'n say it at the time, & leave the rest of us out of your fantasy of ALL conservative being "racist."  Seriously....  Stop the nibbling at the edges.  You WELL KNOW that I have  been one of the biggest antagonist with respect to Bill & Stiffy playing the racial demagoguery card.  So cut the shhhhhhhITE with the "some" on this board" BS.  Just come out & say it!  Don't lump the rest of us in with these trolls.

    Sorry to get this in your face, but I'm offended by your broad brush.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I want to ad that I have watched this thread for days and nothing disgusted me more than the above post by moonslav59

     


    JD Drew was bludgeoned here in Boston, was that racist? Easily the most dissapointing post by moonslav59 ever. And I could go on and on, I use the "Drew" example as the easiest counter but obviously there is much more that could be said... but why beat a dead horse. The dead horse being "racism" as it barely registers on the national level any longer. Most of us have grown up.

    [/QUOTE]

    JD Drew was no Papi- not even close.

    Racism in America is not a "dead horse".

    You, sir, are in denial.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    OK, I will bite ...... Besides some "hot vacation spots (all inclusive for safty), please tell me/us about all the good things that comes out of Mexico since the year in our lord of 2000 ??????    BZZZZZZZZZ   Times up !!!

     

    I rest my case.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats fine, but it was MY case to rest. The sad part is that Bill doesn't even see where his attitude is bigoted-and thats the first step to fix it.

    [/QUOTE]

    My "case" was that some posters venemous posts are rooted in bigotry or racism. Others came to BILL's defense by claiming he was not a racist or bigot.

    BILL's follow-up statement "rested my case". It's clearly denial.

    You have the right to continue your case as long as you see fit, but in my opinion, you basically just admitted that it's denial that keeps these guys from taking that first step to recovery.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Moon,

    Here in lies the problem I have with your thesis.  Of course Bill, Stiffy, et al. have a decidedly obvious inclination toward the "race baiting.....  racist......  bigoted......  etc.....   The problem I have with you, & this line of thinking is that it is so intellectually lazy.  As a fiscal conservative / social liberal to moderate, I take great offense in your broad brush painting of ALL conservatives as being bigoted, a la MSNBC's mantra.  It's sad!  & below you!  If you have a problem with an individual displaying quasi "racist" /. bigoted rhetoric, then call them out.  Don't play this mamby pamby game of alluding to "racist" rhetoric by "some" on this board.  Man up & call it what it is at the time that it is said.  I AGREE.....  that Bill & Stiffy routinely traffic in this word play.  So just FFFFFF'n say it at the time, & leave the rest of us out of your fantasy of ALL conservative being "racist."  Seriously....  Stop the nibbling at the edges.  You WELL KNOW that I have  been one of the biggest antagonist with respect to Bill & Stiffy playing the racial demagoguery card.  So cut the shhhhhhhITE with the "some" on this board" BS.  Just come out & say it!  Don't lump the rest of us in with these trolls.

    Sorry to get this in your face, but I'm offended by your broad brush.

     

    Never even came close to even implying all , most or even a significant amount of conservatives are bigots or racists.

    I'm not lazy- just perceptive.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon,

    Here in lies the problem I have with your thesis.  Of course Bill, Stiffy, et al. have a decidedly obvious inclination toward the "race baiting.....  racist......  bigoted......  etc.....   The problem I have with you, & this line of thinking is that it is so intellectually lazy.  As a fiscal conservative / social liberal to moderate, I take great offense in your broad brush painting of ALL conservatives as being bigoted, a la MSNBC's mantra.  It's sad!  & below you!  If you have a problem with an individual displaying quasi "racist" /. bigoted rhetoric, then call them out.  Don't play this mamby pamby game of alluding to "racist" rhetoric by "some" on this board.  Man up & call it what it is at the time that it is said.  I AGREE.....  that Bill & Stiffy routinely traffic in this word play.  So just FFFFFF'n say it at the time, & leave the rest of us out of your fantasy of ALL conservative being "racist."  Seriously....  Stop the nibbling at the edges.  You WELL KNOW that I have  been one of the biggest antagonist with respect to Bill & Stiffy playing the racial demagoguery card.  So cut the shhhhhhhITE with the "some" on this board" BS.  Just come out & say it!  Don't lump the rest of us in with these trolls.

    Sorry to get this in your face, but I'm offended by your broad brush.

     

    Never even came close to even implying all , most or even a significant amount of conservatives are bigots or racists.

    I'm not lazy- just perceptive.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just a suggestion: instead of saying that a few posters here are bigoted, why not just name them so others won't think they are in that group. Frankly, I see only two here who are consistently bigoted: Softy and Bill.

     
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