Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    m
     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]I agree with Hugh, in that, though it is hard to see the last two years as anything but the way it is with Youk now, I think we need to see the next year out.  2010 was not the same as 2011 injury-wise.  the thumb was indeed a freak accident that could happen to anyone, injury-prone or not.  Now, 2011 was tough.  The hip.  the knee.  That was definitely a case of the body just failing.  But, as armchair GM, I need more than 1 season like that before I make a judgement on a player of Youk's quality.  Lost in the chicken and beer is the fact that the offense just was not the same after Youkilis went down.  Sure, Adrian's shoulder may have factored into his lack of power in the 2nd half, or the black magic of the HR Dreby (yeah right).  But, I don't think Adrian saw a decent pitch after Youk went down.  The fact that his avg. remained high was a testament to his ability to hit anything and take what is given him.  But, Youk is a monster.  even when not at the top of his game, his ability to work counts and drive balls is priceless.  I am giving him this next year to get a full picture of his health.   Now, I might be quicker to shop him if i thought there was good return coming.  But, who in their right mind, would give up someone good for a gamble with a pretty fat contract?  No one.  Unless we threw in some good prospects and then I am really throwing the baby aout with the bath water. If he goes off next spring, sure, move him while his value is high.  But, now, there is nothing of worth coming back for him.  And, at the end of the day, I want Kevin youkilis on the Red Sox.  Yes, his health is a question mark at this point.  but not a period.  I think many of you are too quick to call him done.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Gotta say I agree with your argument, but it sounds like the popular opinion is to cut him loose.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    He might like to finish his career in Cin City but where are they going to play him especially without a DH.
    I would prefer him here as DH--cut the cord with Papi and sign Jason Kubel-a lethanded DH. Youk is there in case AGon or Middlebrooks goes down and Kubel could be a corner OF fill in if need be.
    Unless Ben gets overwhelmed  in a trade for Youk --I say keep him as a DH. Keep in mind one of the best DH's of all time, Edgar Martinez, wasn't the greatest fielder nor the fastest runner---but he could hit and drive in runs. Youk is going to be a DH sooner or later---let's make it sooner and with the Sox.
    If things don't work out they can buy out his last year for $1 M--if things work out he's insurance for AGon.

     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    If the choice is to trade Youk and resign Papi, or keep Youk and let Papi go, I go with door #2.

    Trading Youk is harder than many assume.  He has to prove he is healthy, and his value is at its lowest pont ever.  So what do you think you get for him?  Meanwhile you open up a hole that must be filled, through trade or free agency.  Very likely you give up more than you get in this scenario.

    Letting Papi go and moving Youk to DH opens up a hole as well.  But in this case, you gain two draft picks (for Ortiz) and you could fill that spot either with another DH, or a 3B option through Free Agency, giving up only one draft pick, or perhaps none at all.  And you might be saving a good deal of money as well as gaining some top draft talent.  Ortiz will probably get over $10 million in his next Sox contract.  That is more than many other DHs get.  For example, Guerrero is out there, and he played for 7.5 million this season.  The money saved can go into rebuilding the bullpen.  Or, if you got a guy like Cuddyer, who has a contract offer from Minny for $8 million a year you'd have to top, you get a DH that can actually play in the field in a pinch (and while in National league cities).
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi? : Gotta say I agree with your argument, but it sounds like the popular opinion is to cut him loose.
    Posted by jmmyslinski[/QUOTE]

    Right, which is why it is a good thing that the club is in the capable hands of Ben Cherrington and not Popular Opinion's.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    Middlebrooks will start at Pawtuket.

    But the Sox could fill 3B without any move, if Youk is moved to DH.  Aviles and Lowrie could adequately fill the spot until Middlebrooks proves ready (which I hope will happen in July or August). 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi? : I agree with you about Youk not being healthy for the last 2 seasons.  I also agree with many posters who thought that the Red Sox should have signed Beltre and traded Youk.  It just wasn't something that the Red Sox had any intentions of doing before the season started.  Not sure that he will be any better at DH than Ortiz.  I really want to see Ortiz end his career with the Red Sox and would be very unhappy if this doesn't happen. 
    Posted by susan250[/QUOTE]

    Boston did wanted to sign Beltre and would have probably have trade Youkilis afterward.  But Beltre and his agent, Boras wanted at least 5 years contract. That was why Beltre couldnt sign with Boston, instead he found a team that is willing to give him a five years contract.  Since Beltre signed with Texas, Youkilis can play 3B at the same time Boston use him as their plan B.

    So the whole problem last year is that everyone wanted a long big fat contract, but Boston knew that some of these guys wouldnt last long playing defensively. More likely they all would become a DH in the future.  So instead, Boston tried signing some of them a short term deals with Beltre, Victor and Papi all in the same time.  Imagine Boston gave three to four years deal with Beltre, Victor and Papi.  All suddenly they all need to DH at the same time due Beltre/Victor suddenly can no longer play defense.  

    So I think in someway, it did paid off for the Boston!!


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    Under no circumstances should we trade Kevin Youkilis.  He could be a sports hernia operation away from his 2009 numbers, and there is nowhere in baseball we can expect to receive that kind of production from the right side of the plate in trade.  I love the guys who are suggesting Aramis Ramirez replace him - they love Ramirez because after two years of injuries, he had a year in 2011 that Youk nearly matched despite his injuries.  

    As if we needed another reason to hold onto him - Youk signed a team-friendly contract with the Sox.  The best way to discourage players from doing the same in the future is to trade the players who have done so in the past.  


     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]Under no circumstances should we trade Kevin Youkilis.  He could be a sports hernia operation away from his 2009 numbers, and there is nowhere in baseball we can expect to receive that kind of production from the right side of the plate in trade.  I love the guys who are suggesting Aramis Ramirez replace him - they love Ramirez because after two years of injuries, he had a year in 2011 that Youk nearly matched despite his injuries.   As if we needed another reason to hold onto him - Youk signed a team-friendly contract with the Sox.  The best way to discourage players from doing the same in the future is to trade the players who have done so in the past.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Finally, a voice of reason.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    Is Mr. Slinsky in the OP referring to a poll?
     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    Get a serviceable pitcher for Youkilis while his value is still reasonably high enough.
    Wait another year and get less because Middlebrooks should be ready in 2013.
    The biggest need the team has right now is pitching.    A third baseman for one year can be found.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    Slinsky started the thread and never responded.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]Get a serviceable pitcher for Youkilis while his value is still reasonably high enough. Wait another year and get less because Middlebrooks should be ready in 2013. The biggest need the team has right now is pitching.    A third baseman for one year can be found.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle[/QUOTE]

    Chances are pretty good that Middlebrooks never approaches Youk's level of ability when healthy.  He's suddenly very undervalued around here.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi? : Chances are pretty good that Middlebrooks never approaches Youk's level of ability when healthy.  He's suddenly very undervalued around here.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]


    Why?
     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]I've been suprised to see so many people ready to ditch Youk after a tough year.  before 2011 Youk has been the most consistant hitter, and most reliable infielder for the Red Sox.  I guarantee he will work twice as hard this year, hopefully with good health.  He is an identity for this team and needs to be at 3rd base next year.  This team can be force next year.  I'm pretty sure Papi is on his way out of town.  It's gonna be tough to see him in the other dugout.  Rays or Yankees would not suprise me either way.  I would like to see Lavarnway at DH if Papi leaves (this would allow Varitek to stick around to help coach the young catchers) .  It would free up some cash to keep Papalbon, and maybe bring in a replacement for Lackey and/or Beckett.    
    Posted by jmmyslinski[/QUOTE]

    Youkilis has been a first class jerk since day one. But he was tolerated A) because he produced, and B) because he was, well...our jerk. He's gotten old very quickly, cannot stay on the field, is no longer producing, and is by all accounts, still, a cancer in the clubhouse. Why would anyone suggest holding onto a player like that?

     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]Because Youk can't stay on the field? And as far as I'm concerned, the only guy in my memory who earned the right to retire in the home whites more than David Ortiz was Yaz.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    I thought that Papi came from another organization? Never would have expected a comment like this from you.
     
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    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi? : Why?
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Look at the numbers - Middlebrooks finished with the same OPS as Youk.  Middlebrooks was completely healthy and at AA - Youk was injury riddled facing major-league pitchers.  The man is an elite hitter - he's a top 10 bat in the league when totally healthy.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    If right trade comes up then you pull the trigger on Youk. I think it might be time to get a DH that can field positions and run. Don't get me wrong, I have appreciated all Papi and Youk have done, but it might be time to move them along. That is not being mean, just being realistic and honest.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    The bottom line question is: does Youk want to be here still? His horrid attitude and squabbling with teamates would need to be changed, but if that could happen he'd be welcomed by the Nation with open arms. I worry also about the dawdling response to his "sports hernia". If he's going to have surgery it better be NOW, not in January or February after they "rest it". To me that would demonstrate his desire to really help right this tilting ship. If he waits, following the meandering, passive course our less than stellar medical staff usually prescribe, I'll know he doesn't really care. And yes, players are the only ones who can demonstrate a sense of urgency to get back on the field. Dr.'s will ALWAYS take the wait and rest forever approach. I'm not suggesting he defy needed prescribed rest, just the typical defensive medicine practiced by all too many clowns out there.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?

    He runs like my mother, but ya gotta admit Youk is a gold glover at 1st or 3rd. Together with his clutch bat it makes him a STUD. He really needs to change his attitude about many things, but this guy can sure play baseball. Just hoping to hear he's healthy and doesn't need surgery. The problem with "sports hernia's" is there is often no discernable swelling or protrusions in the effected areas. In other words, the evidence that a true injury exists is entirely subjective. Some Dr.'s even think the pain is psychosomatic in origin. If the off season of rest doesn't cure the problem, we're in big trouble because Youk has never played through pain some like guys do. It'll be a 100 game season for him if we're lucky.



    In Response to Re: Why does everyone want to send Youk packing? Is it time to say bye to Papi?:
    [QUOTE]If right trade comes up then you pull the trigger on Youk. I think it might be time to get a DH that can field positions and run. Don't get me wrong, I have appreciated all Papi and Youk have done, but it might be time to move them along. That is not being mean, just being realistic and honest.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]
     
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