Why fix anything?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    There is nothing that needs fixing but there is always room for improvement.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    While I reocognize the Sox like anyone could benefit from adding a good righty bat, a solid starter, and one or more reliable bullpen arms, I would like to make the arguments on why a big deal for a very good bat or arm should be avoided.  So here they are in no particular order:

    1.  Nothing's broken.  Sox lead the AL and the AL East.  Chemistry is good.  Hitting is the best in MLB, and the pitching has been better than expected.  When Buchholz gets off the DL, they will have a pretty good rotation.  Bullpen is still a little thin, however. 

    2.  Sox already own some talented players at Pawtucket like Bogaerts, Bradley, and Middlebrooks.  Plus guys already in Boston can and will improve--see Iglesias, Nava, Miller, Tazawa, et al. 

    3.  Going out into the marketplace is fraught with danger.  The Phillies are a perfect example of improving a good team only to make it worse.  They paid a king's ransom for Papelbon, and what has it gotten them?  Same goes for Cliff Lee.  Tigers got Fielder and Verlander, both at hefty prices, and the Sox are 3 games up on them while playing a tougher schedule.  The Yankees got ARod for an insane amount of money and have one WS in like 10 years to show for it.  On the other hand, I would be dishonest if I didn't recognize the 2004 Sox benefitted from three earlier, major acquisitions--Ramirez, Ortiz, and Schilling--and the 2007 team benefitted from getting Beckett and Lowell. 

    4.  This is a rebuilding year and has gone way better than expected.  Stay the course--see reason #2. 

    And now one argument for making a trade/deal, which I do recognize.  The Sox just might have more talent in the minors than the big club can reasonably absorb.  The right deal, assuming Bogaerts isn't given away, might make sense.    And I think the Sox are comfortably under the salary cap. 

     




    Depth heading to the PS, especially SP and in the pen.  We are not all that in these areas despite our record.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    There is nothing that needs fixing but there is always room for improvement.



    A .702 3B OPs is not in need of fixing?

    If Iggy is the "fixing" at 3B, then SS is not in need of fixing?

    What about the pen? A- OK?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, we botched the Gagne trade, so let us never make another in season move.

    Preventive maintenance is doing something that does not really need to be done right now (one could put off an oil change for another day or week with no harm), but is done to prevent a greater problem later. Just because we have the best record in the AL does not mean we can't get better at some positions. To say you want to improve on a specific position, does not mean you are saying the guy(s) you have at that position are bad or even below average. It just means that if a chance arises where you can significantly improve at a position without hurting the future too much, then it may be worth taking the chance.

    Yes, all trades are a gamble, and our past is littered with trades that did not work out well, but not making a trade is gambling on the players we have now continuing as is. If you take the 3B position, as is, are we really prepared to continue on without trying to improve? The bullpen without a productive Bailey will soon feel the crunch of a lack of quality set-up men as Uehara and Tazawa each moved up a notch. Buch is hurt, Lester is struggling, and the other 3 are doing very well, but to gamble on status quo in that area is foolish. Every season, something happens to a starter. To gamble that this season will be different is being negligent.

     



    Like Max, I'm not crazy about the oil change analogy either (more to do with the analogy itself than any baseball point you're making), but I think you hit the nail the head with the highlighted sections.  I wouldn't gamble on the status quo either when the possibility of a big payoff, a World Series, is not an unrealistic hope.   When you've got the opportunity, you've got to go for it.  

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yes, we botched the Gagne trade, so let us never make another in season move.

    Preventive maintenance is doing something that does not really need to be done right now (one could put off an oil change for another day or week with no harm), but is done to prevent a greater problem later. Just because we have the best record in the AL does not mean we can't get better at some positions. To say you want to improve on a specific position, does not mean you are saying the guy(s) you have at that position are bad or even below average. It just means that if a chance arises where you can significantly improve at a position without hurting the future too much, then it may be worth taking the chance.

    Yes, all trades are a gamble, and our past is littered with trades that did not work out well, but not making a trade is gambling on the players we have now continuing as is. If you take the 3B position, as is, are we really prepared to continue on without trying to improve? The bullpen without a productive Bailey will soon feel the crunch of a lack of quality set-up men as Uehara and Tazawa each moved up a notch. Buch is hurt, Lester is struggling, and the other 3 are doing very well, but to gamble on status quo in that area is foolish. Every season, something happens to a starter. To gamble that this season will be different is being negligent.

     




    So, if we aquire another starter, who do you send to the pen or AAA?

    First of all, I am not for making any old trade just for the sake of it.

    Second, I do not want to trade top prospects for a 2 month rental, so that limits the options severley.

    Third, I'd prefer to make a deal that brings us a player that is under team control or agrees to be extended as part of the deal beyond 2014.

    Now, back to your question. There is 4 weeks before the deadline and a lot can change in that time. We should know more about Buchholz and Lester by then, but if one is questionable, standing pat is basically close giving up on this season. Let's assume the best, a mistake in MLB, but for argument's sake, here it goes:

    If we traded prospects for a starting pitcher, we'd be...

    1) Getting insurance against Buch or Lester having further issues or Lackey, Dempster or Doubront getting hurt or falling off a cliff.

    2) Doubront may hit a wall at some point this year, especially if we go deep into the playoffs. He's on pace for 170+ IP for just the regular season. He could be moved to the pen as a long relief specialist/spot starter, but as of right now, he deserves to stay in the roitation (assuming he is not part of the trade that upgrades our rotation).

    3) Our top pitchers, if healthy, right now are:

    SP: Buch, Lackey, Demp, Doub, Lester, Aceves (LR)  (AAA: Webster/Wright/DLR)

    RP: Uehara, Tazawa, Breslow, Miller, Bailey (?), Morales (inj), (AAA: Wilson/Beato/Bard/de la Torre)

    If we go with 12 pitchers, and everyone is healthy at the deadline (unlikely), I'd try and trade Bailey or Morales or send Bailey to AAA (assuming he hasn't redeemed himself by the 31st). My guess is, we don't trade for a starter, unless Buch or Lester are still having serious issues. We may trade for a pen arm, especially if Bailey has not come around, and Uehara is getting too many innings.

    I think the most likely trade will involve a 3Bman who hist lefties very well, but does OK ve RHPs as well (A Ramirez or maybe M Young).

    I'm not advocating any trades right now. I have mentioned a few possible moves, but have said that I am not necessarily for the trades at this point. By July 31st, we should have a better idea of what we need, or what options are out tehre to improve at some slots without hurting others more (including our farm).

    Does this worry you?

    Team ERA:

    April: 3.58

    May:  4.00

    June: 4.13

    or this?

    last 28 days: 4.31

    last 14 days: 4.91

    If we continue at somewhere between 4.31 and 4.91 through July, would you want to explore possible upgrades?

     

     

     

    Sox4ever



    I don't want them to trade a top prospect for a 2 month rental either, but some rentals can probably be acquired by trading a lesser prospect and just picking up the tab for the remainder of the season.  Heck, for someone like Michael Young, it might mostly be a matter of picking up the tab.  What's Philly going to do with a player in his final contract year, perhaps finishing up his career, in a lame duck season?  The only way they can get more  for Young is if there is competition for him.  I can't imagine the competition would be that fierce.  I see this kind of acquisition as low risk.

    Do you know of any starters, relievers or any other players they can use that might be in a similar position?  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    Unless the Red Sox only have to pick up salary, trades should be for proven commodities. I don't want to send top prospects for anyone less than a Cliff Lee-type, and even then, I wouldn't want it to be too many prospects. Teams get in trouble when they package top prospects for second-tier talent, instead of for the best of the best.


    As for the Gagne trade, how was it a disaster? He didn't pitch well in Boston, no question about it, but the Red Sox still won the World Series that year. David Murphy turned out to be an okay player for the Rangers and Kason Gabbard had his moments in Boston, however I don't particularly miss either one of them. At the time, it was a very reasonable trade. I feel the same way about Hanrahan. There's no way Melancon was going to pitch as well here as he has for the Pirates. Had Hanrahan not been injured, he likely would have been an effective reliever on this team. If anything, the Red Sox medical staff deserves some blame for its tendency to miss all these injuries.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, we botched the Gagne trade, so let us never make another in season move.

    Preventive maintenance is doing something that does not really need to be done right now (one could put off an oil change for another day or week with no harm), but is done to prevent a greater problem later. Just because we have the best record in the AL does not mean we can't get better at some positions. To say you want to improve on a specific position, does not mean you are saying the guy(s) you have at that position are bad or even below average. It just means that if a chance arises where you can significantly improve at a position without hurting the future too much, then it may be worth taking the chance.

    Yes, all trades are a gamble, and our past is littered with trades that did not work out well, but not making a trade is gambling on the players we have now continuing as is. If you take the 3B position, as is, are we really prepared to continue on without trying to improve? The bullpen without a productive Bailey will soon feel the crunch of a lack of quality set-up men as Uehara and Tazawa each moved up a notch. Buch is hurt, Lester is struggling, and the other 3 are doing very well, but to gamble on status quo in that area is foolish. Every season, something happens to a starter. To gamble that this season will be different is being negligent.

     



    Like Max, I'm not crazy about the oil change analogy either (more to do with the analogy itself than any baseball point you're making), but I think you hit the nail the head with the highlighted sections.  I wouldn't gamble on the status quo either when the possibility of a big payoff, a World Series, is not an unrealistic hope.   When you've got the opportunity, you've got to go for it.  

     



    I thought the oil change anology was spot on. You can gamble on going a few more weeks without it, but eventually not doing it will come back to bite you in the ___.

    Maybe changing wornout tire is a better analogy.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    I don't want them to trade a top prospect for a 2 month rental either, but some rentals can probably be acquired by trading a lesser prospect and just picking up the tab for the remainder of the season.  Heck, for someone like Michael Young, it might mostly be a matter of picking up the tab.  What's Philly going to do with a player in his final contract year, perhaps finishing up his career, in a lame duck season?  The only way they can get more  for Young is if there is competition for him.  I can't imagine the competition would be that fierce.  I see this kind of acquisition as low risk.

    I'd prefer A Ramirez from the Brewers, but he may cost more than few mid level prospects (some of whom may be lost to rule 5 or roster cuts this winter anyways.

     

     

    Do you know of any starters, relievers or any other players they can use that might be in a similar position?

    A Ramirez is one. Jake Peavy. Jesse Crain. Jamie Shields. Matt Garza. Cliff Lee. Bud Norris. E Santana. Nolasco. E Jackson. Y Gallardo. K Lohse. 

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    With Hanrahan and Ross out for the year those are 2 spots that need to be addressed. Also, we don't know about Buchholz and on the premise that you can never have too much pitching I'd pick up another quality arm. The Orioles just made a move for Feldman and we need to follow suit.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to trouts' comment:

     

    With Hanrahan and Ross out for the year those are 2 spots that need to be addressed. Also, we don't know about Buchholz and on the premise that you can never have too much pitching I'd pick up another quality arm. The Orioles just made a move for Feldman and we need to follow suit.

     




    I  dont follow the monkey see, monkey do theory...The O's needed a MOTR pitcher, we dont. Im not sure Lee will be worth what it takes to get him, besides him and his wife didnt want to come here before. Why would I want a guy that doesnt want to be here anyway?

     

    Id concentrate on the bullpen right now and see how every other position looks in another 3 weeks.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    You always want to try and improve the team, but trades can certainly backfire on you. You can't assume that a given trade will improve the team. It could hurt now and in the future. We are doing very well , but could use an upgrade in a couple of areas. If we can't fill these internally , we can explore a trade or two. Our top half dozen or so prospects should be off limits.




    Two words - Eric Gagne.

    Two more - Jeff Bagwell.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    You always want to try and improve the team, but trades can certainly backfire on you. You can't assume that a given trade will improve the team. It could hurt now and in the future. We are doing very well , but could use an upgrade in a couple of areas. If we can't fill these internally , we can explore a trade or two. Our top half dozen or so prospects should be off limits.

     




    Two words - Eric Gagne.

     

    Two more - Jeff Bagwell.

    [/QUOTE]

    Two words: Orlando Cabrera

    Two more: Dave Roberts

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Does this worry you?

    Team ERA:

    April: 3.58

    May:  4.00

    June: 4.13

    or this?

    last 28 days: 4.31

    last 14 days: 4.91

     

    Yes.

     

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE



    Last 14 days, it is 4.10.  Most of the damage was Webster's game.  In 11 of the 14 games, we allowed 5 ERs or less.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Why ever get an oil change? Everything is working fine.

    Two words: preventive maintenance.

    Sox4ever

    Preventative maintenance is more akin to drafting two SPs each year knowing that you'll need one every season or so.

    The analogy most are advocating is to discuss changing the transmission fluid or the radiator fluid, without finding out which you need.  If we trade for Lee, and Uehara and Bailey both flame out, it's a waste of money and prospects.  If we trade for Paps, and Buchholz is out for the season and Lester doesn't pitch well, it's a waste of moeny and prospects.

    We don't need to make a move today because BA made a move today.  We need to make a move when we identify our key weakness, and right now, we don't have one.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Why ever get an oil change? Everything is working fine.

    Two words: preventive maintenance.

    Sox4ever

     

     

    Preventative maintenance is more akin to drafting two SPs each year knowing that you'll need one every season or so.

    The analogy most are advocating is to discuss changing the transmission fluid or the radiator fluid, without finding out which you need.  If we trade for Lee, and Uehara and Bailey both flame out, it's a waste of money and prospects.  If we trade for Paps, and Buchholz is out for the season and Lester doesn't pitch well, it's a waste of moeny and prospects.

    We don't need to make a move today because BA made a move today.  We need to make a move when we identify our key weakness, and right now, we don't have one.

    [/QUOTE]

    I have never come close to saying we need to make a trade right now. In fact, I have said countless times that we should know more in 4 weeks.

    However, in 4 weeks, we may still have to guess a little. We have a few weaknesses now, but they may fix themselves or not. We have a starting pitcher crew that has done very well this year, but now has injury issues (Buch) and a big question mark in Lester. Preventive maintences means fixing things or making things better before they get worse. 

    The 3 month old oil in your car is probably good enough to get you around the block, but if you are planning on a long trip, it is best to get that needed oil change before you hit the highway to keep your car going strong. That is how I meant my analogy. 

    Weaknesses we are sure we have right now:

    1) Middle of the order hitter vs LHPs.

    2) Bullpen (with Uehara taking Bailey's slot and Taz taking Uehara's, I'd rather not count on Bailey or Breslow to fill in down the line. This area may fix itself by the deadline, but right now, it is clrearly an identified weakness.

    3) One more stud SP for the playoffs. I know our starting staff looks 3 strong right now, but it can never hurt to add a great starter. Again, let's wait until July 31st, and of course, the price must be right or I'll pass. (likely) 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    I would look to Pawtucket ,or even Portland , for help before looking for trades. We have some real talent on the farm.  We can reassess our situation at the deadline. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    There is nothing that needs fixing but there is always room for improvement.


     I think we need a bat to protect Ortiz and Nava isn't the guy----2 intentional walks to Ortiz tonight. How about picking up Konerko or Dunn from the Chisox who aren't going anywhere this year?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    Not for nothing , but apparently Mortensen cleared waivers. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    In response to trouts' comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    [QUOTE]

    There is nothing that needs fixing but there is always room for improvement.

    0000

     I think we need a bat to protect Ortiz and Nava isn't the guy----2 intentional walks to Ortiz tonight. How about picking up Konerko or Dunn from the Chisox who aren't going anywhere this year?

    [/QUOTE]

    The one thing the Red Sox don't need is the vstrikout king Adam Dunn as protection for Papi and Konerko despite being a very good player prior to this year at 37 is on the down side of his career most likely and wouldn't provide said protection for Papi either. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    Middlebrooks is still our best bet to provide the right handed bat behind Ortiz. And, he will not cost us anything. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    The Sox should try to pick up a Larry Anderson type, or Ramon Hernandez or even a Pete Schourek. At worst, at least acquire say a Mark Melancon.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    The Sox shouldn't really trade for need. What they should do is work out some kind of trade with the Dodgers. It really wouldn't matter what the trade is, no matter what kind of deal it is, they should just do it. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why fix anything?

    We don't need to trade anyone. We have the best 25 players in MLB, and guys on our farm are better too!

     

    Sox4ever

     
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