Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So from that you feel comfortable in saying "no one respects him"? Are you by any chance a sportswriter? 

    I think when your best players go to management to get you fired, they don't respect you.

    When your 2B tells you that your type of thinking doesn't work here, he doesn't respect you.

    When your RP won't hand you the ball, he doesn't respect you.

     

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    LMAO, you use a bona fide nut job(Aceves) to make your point. I expect more of you Joe. I believe Pedroia admitted to being wrong for his comment regarding what works here. He was lonely for his cribbage partner so he thought Bobby should emulate Terry and the way Terry did things. 

    Now that I think about it, if Aceves doesn't respect Valentine, then I must be wrong and "No One Respects Him" !  My bad.  Too funny.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, Aceves must be a nut job.

    Why?

    Because he hates Vaelntine.

    What'll you do after you run out of players that don't like?

    In any case, after this year, he'll just be an answer to the trivia question-

    Which manager has had the worst record in the last 46 years?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:

    Bobby V. says things that probably shouldn't be said out in the open such as the Sept. lineup is terrible / loaded with AAA players, however I've heard Remy, Orsillo, Gammons, and Eck say the same thing in recent weeks. Many on this forum have expressed the same observation. The problem here is that the witch hunt and hatred on this forum for BV trumps the objective observation that he doesn't have a team to work with. Casey Stengel would have trouble with this lineup. You can't squeeze water out of a stone.


    You're seriously going to compare Bobby Valentine to Casey Stengel? You should quit while you're behind.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Bobby V. says things that probably shouldn't be said out in the open such as the Sept. lineup is terrible / loaded with AAA players, however I've heard Remy, Orsillo, Gammons, and Eck say the same thing in recent weeks. Many on this forum have expressed the same observation. The problem here is that the witch hunt and hatred on this forum for BV trumps the objective observation that he doesn't have a team to work with. Casey Stengel would have trouble with this lineup. You can't squeeze water out of a stone.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    When you find other managers that say the same things, let me know.  I was listening to the TB announcers the other day ridiculing Valentine for saying his guys stink.

     

    And it is not a witch hunt.  It's called having the worst record in our lifetimes.  How old were you the last time we were this bad?  I only go back to 1967, so I haven't seen us this bad, ever.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:

    1965, Sox were 62-100.  Yes, BV never should have said it publicly but he was sort of right. It's a mixed bag. I ask you how many managers could do well with this lineup? Papi and Middlebrooks out, Gonzales traded away. Ellsbury and Pedroia just getting back into stride.  Eck said the other night that only Ross, Pedroia, and Ellsbury were legitimate MLB players in the lineup.


    The point is that you don't throw your guys under the bus. Ever.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    Day 4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xmRWj7gJEU

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    There's no benefit from sacking him now.   He'll join the 47% shortly after the season ends but to do it now means yet more disruption, an interim manager and more aggro from the Pulitzer Prize ceremony seat filler Globe "journalists".

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I used to work in a warehouse during summers away from college. There was a bumbling co-worker who was one of the worst order selectors in the place. The next summer, I returned and he had been promioted to truck loader. He was the worst loader ever. Product was coming back damaged at a record pace. When I returned the final summer, he was the supervicor of the loading dock. Later, I heard he became supervisor of the whole warehouse.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    One of the saddest truisms is Woody Allen's joke "Ninety percent of life is just showing up."

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I get that point. My point was that Remy, Orsillo, Gammons, and Eck felt the same way and went public with telling it like it is. Of course, they have that privilege as media. The writers have been saying the same thing for weeks also.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    What the paid media says is irrelevant.   The first lesson in the first class on the first day in Management 101 (or Parenthood 101, etc.) is to publically praise and privately criticise.  I was opposed to hiring him, had low expectations....but Valentine's behaviour has been shockingly bizarre and thoughtless.  Totally unprofessional.

    Forget the emotive comparison to his predecessor....compare him to Rivers and Belichick without laughing or wincing.....

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I guess you also missed Aceves refusing to give him the ball the other night.

    And Pedroia taking a photo of him sleeping and texting it around the clubhouse saying "our manager contemplating the line up"

     

    You are welcome.

    Anything else you missed that you need to be caught up on?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So from that you feel comfortable in saying "no one respects him"? Are you by any chance a sportswriter?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you have a point or is your only act to contradict what others say? 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I used to work in a warehouse during summers away from college. There was a bumbling co-worker who was one of the worst order selectors in the place. The next summer, I returned and he had been promioted to truck loader. He was the worst loader ever. Product was coming back damaged at a record pace. When I returned the final summer, he was the supervicor of the loading dock. Later, I heard he became supervisor of the whole warehouse.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The stoy of modern day American capitalism.....Love it...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It sounds like the effect of a very strong union, to me.....nice, huh?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    1965, Sox were 62-100.  Yes, BV never should have said it publicly but he was sort of right. It's a mixed bag. I ask you how many managers could do well with this lineup? Papi and Middlebrooks out, Gonzales traded away. Ellsbury and Pedroia just getting back into stride.  Eck said the other night that only Ross, Pedroia, and Ellsbury were legitimate MLB players in the lineup.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Salty is not a legitimate MLB player?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    1965, Sox were 62-100.  Yes, BV never should have said it publicly but he was sort of right. It's a mixed bag. I ask you how many managers could do well with this lineup? Papi and Middlebrooks out, Gonzales traded away. Ellsbury and Pedroia just getting back into stride.  Eck said the other night that only Ross, Pedroia, and Ellsbury were legitimate MLB players in the lineup.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, the trade and the injuries put an end to our season, but did Valentine ever have us playing well?  Papi went down on 7/16, but we were still only 46-44, and we had the whole team at that point.  We had only won 6 of 15 at that point.  It wasn't like anyone could point to how well we were playing.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I used to work in a warehouse during summers away from college. There was a bumbling co-worker who was one of the worst order selectors in the place. The next summer, I returned and he had been promioted to truck loader. He was the worst loader ever. Product was coming back damaged at a record pace. When I returned the final summer, he was the supervicor of the loading dock. Later, I heard he became supervisor of the whole warehouse.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The stoy of modern day American capitalism.....Love it...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It sounds like the effect of a very strong union, to me.....nice, huh?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Two legs good!  Unions bad!  Two legs good!  Unions bad!  Bahahahah

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pike's comment:

    1965, Sox were 62-100.  Yes, BV never should have said it publicly but he was sort of right. It's a mixed bag. I ask you how many managers could do well with this lineup? Papi and Middlebrooks out, Gonzales traded away. Ellsbury and Pedroia just getting back into stride.  Eck said the other night that only Ross, Pedroia, and Ellsbury were legitimate MLB players in the lineup.



    The point is that you don't throw your guys under the bus. Ever.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope. Thats on Valentine..his mistake. But this season's failures are MOSTLY on the players, not on the manager. Some folks here are blind to that fact. And it IS a fact.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    Nope. Thats on Valentine..his mistake. But this season's failures are MOSTLY on the players, not on the manager. Some folks here are blind to that fact. And it IS a fact.

     

    I am not blind to it.  But as I said earlier this season doesn't have to be his fault.  He can still be an idiot and a bad manager and have no blame at all if it makes you feel better.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pike's comment:

    1965, Sox were 62-100.  Yes, BV never should have said it publicly but he was sort of right. It's a mixed bag. I ask you how many managers could do well with this lineup? Papi and Middlebrooks out, Gonzales traded away. Ellsbury and Pedroia just getting back into stride.  Eck said the other night that only Ross, Pedroia, and Ellsbury were legitimate MLB players in the lineup.



    The point is that you don't throw your guys under the bus. Ever.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope. Thats on Valentine..his mistake. But this season's failures are MOSTLY on the players, not on the manager. Some folks here are blind to that fact. And it IS a fact.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, about 100% of the critics agree that this isn't all BV's fault.  This looks to me to be about an 80-win team with all the injuries and the trade.  Managers have a limited impact on their team, but I'd say this is about the biggest impact I've ever seen, at least in BB.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    I don't really get why people keep saying "it's not his fault".  Beckett had a bad year this year but it wasn't his fault either.  It isn't Baileys fault he was injured.  It isn't Bard's fault that he stinks.

    For me to say that Valentine has been a train wreck this year is not implying that everything is his fault.

    The fact is that he is a laughingstock around the league and in boston.  is that his fault?  yes.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    Actually, about 100% of the critics agree that this isn't all BV's fault. This looks to me to be about an 80-win team with all the injuries and the trade. Managers have a limited impact on their team, but I'd say this is about the biggest impact I've ever seen, at least in BB

    I don't believe I have seen any posts here from you that explicitly said that most of the results from this year not the fault of the manager, but of the players.

    Is your boss responsible for the quality of your work, or is that on you? I know that I never held my boss responsible for what I did at work. I took enough professional pride to do the best job possible at all times. When I failed and made poor judgements my boss had the responsibility to speak with me about it. I have also had bosses that were really not very good IMO. Some of them said things in public that should have been said privately; others made the tactical error of trying to micromanage my professional life. However under no circumstances did I hold my boss accountable for the quality of my work. That was ALWAYS on me. Similarly, the quality of the work contributed by our players this year is on THEM, not on the manager. I agree that he didn't make it easy for them, that he did a poor job, and that he needs to be fired the day the season ends. But in no way is he accountable for the pitches thrown by our lackluster pitching staff this year, the Achilles Heel of the season for us.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nope. Thats on Valentine..his mistake. But this season's failures are MOSTLY on the players, not on the manager. Some folks here are blind to that fact. And it IS a fact.

     

    I am not blind to it.  But as I said earlier this season doesn't have to be his fault.  He can still be an idiot and a bad manager and have no blame at all if it makes you feel better.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    He was an idiot and a bad manager as it turned out; he deserves the fate that awaits him. However, his role in our losses this year was miniscule compared to the role of our pitching, talent level, and injuries.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    I think manager influence is greatly exaggerated.  During the halcyon Francona years there was a certain poster that insisted every season that Francona had cost the Sox "at least 15 wins".  As if they should have won 110+ games every season!

    It's absolutely not solely Valentine's fault that the Sox have stumbled so badly this season.  But he has comprehensively failed at his job and has shown no reason for optimism.

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why hasn't Bobby Valentine been fired already?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think manager influence is greatly exaggerated.  During the halcyon Francona years there was a certain poster that insisted every season that Francona had cost the Sox "at least 15 wins".  As if they should have won 110+ games every season!

    It's absolutely not solely Valentine's fault that the Sox have stumbled so badly this season.  But he has comprehensively failed at his job and has shown no reason for optimism.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. I would place "the Valentine effect" at no more than 3-5%. He might have cost the team a couple of games this year because of faulty tactics, but no more than 2-3 losses were mostly his fault. It would be interesting to see what people here assign percentage-wise as the reason for our debacle this year. There are lots of reasons to include in the voting besides the manager: the pitching, the injuries, Cherington, Lucchino, Henry...they all had a role in this. I don't think you can blame the offense too much, though its been inconsistent: its now 4th in the AL in runs scored. With a similar ranking for pitching we would be right in the thick of things.

     

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