Why is Dice never given any credit?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Like Peter Abraham for instance--the guy throws a couple of 1 hitters and they're dismissed as aberrations.  The only thing is, it isn't an aberration--when Dice is on his game, he's virtually unhittable, and that's been the case all along.  His problem is consistency and walking batters on 3-2 counts, and just possibly, lack of encouragement and support from the Red Sox community hasn't helped him at all--people just seem to want to tear him down, and they won't be satisfied until it's realized.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    Like Peter Abraham for instance--the guy throws a couple of 1 hitters and they're dismissed as aberrations.  The only thing is, it isn't an aberration--when Dice is on his game, he's virtually unhittable, and that's been the case all along.  His problem is consistency and walking batters on 3-2 counts, and just possibly, lack of encouragement and support from the Red Sox community hasn't helped him at all--people just seem to want to tear him down, and they won't be satisfied until it's realized.
    Posted by soxnewmex


    Yeah man.  It bums me out.  But, RSN is a fickle and cruel place.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    maybe he abused his VISA card.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    Like Peter Abraham for instance--the guy throws a couple of 1 hitters and they're dismissed as aberrations.  The only thing is, it isn't an aberration--when Dice is on his game, he's virtually unhittable, and that's been the case all along.  His problem is consistency and walking batters on 3-2 counts, and just possibly, lack of encouragement and support from the Red Sox community hasn't helped him at all--people just seem to want to tear him down, and they won't be satisfied until it's realized.
    Posted by soxnewmex
    CREDIT ??  YOU WANT CREDIT ?????   HOW ABOUT THE 50MIL THAT WE PAID TO TALK WITH HIM ??  THEN THE 8MIL PER YEAR !!!   I WANT RESULTS FROM THE STIFF !!   WHAT SAY YOU ??
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    The same reason Wakefield is still on the active roster.

    The same reason Bellsbury was considred a bigger "rookie splash" than Ellis Burks.

    I could go on......................
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    In Response to Why is Dice never given any credit? : CREDIT ??  YOU WANT CREDIT ?????   HOW ABOUT THE 50MIL THAT WE PAID TO TALK WITH HIM ??  THEN THE 8MIL PER YEAR !!!   I WANT RESULTS FROM THE STIFF !!   WHAT SAY YOU ??
    Posted by Bill-806


    We have gotten results from him. He could go 28 innings of scoreless ball and people would still hate him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit? : We have gotten results from him. He could go 28 innings of scoreless ball and people would still hate him.
    Posted by RSF4Life234
    JUST LIKE WAKEFIELD......  CAN THROW A NO-NO FOR 4 OR 5 INNINGS, THEN GIVE UP 6 QUICK ONES......  I CAN'T PLAN ON WINNING WITH THE STIFF !!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    That's the pont Bill806--when he gives results, as in 1-hitters, as in 18-3 with a 2 point something ERA over the course of his second season with the team, why is he never given credit?  Even those results are put down (oh he was lucky, or he loaded the bases too often) or outright dismissed as aberrations, which is dishonest, by guys like Abraham.  He simply hasn't been a bum 90% of the time, he's been, at worst, a total bum maybe 15% of the time.  But the way he's treated it's as if he's been a total bum, and it just isn't true.
    Posted by soxnewmex
      UNCOACHABLE TOO !!!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Sometimes the truth is not pretty.  While Dice-K had 'success' in his first couple years, the rest of his career has not been 'worth' the price tag.

    Example:  Throwing a no-hitter is impressive for instance.  But follow that up with 3 lousy outings, and that pitcher has done his team a disservice in the end.

    Why should INconsistency be rewarded or praised?!?

    Obviously, its Sox Mgt who overvalued Dice-K (in terns of on the field performance) so we can blame them if we like.

    At the end of the day, Dice K is a paid PUBLIC professional.  An entertainer if you will.  Signing a major league contract brings with it tons of money...and tons of public scrutiny.  If he can't handle it, he chose the wrong line of work.

    I have no compassion for a person who works in the public eye and then feels its unfair to be judged by the same.  I'm not saying Dice-K feels this way.  But at the same time, he should have expected the potential negatives at the time he agreed to be paid a fortune.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    That's the pont Bill806--when he gives results, as in 1-hitters, as in 18-3 with a 2 point something ERA over the course of his second season with the team, why is he never given credit?  Even those results are put down (oh he was lucky, or he loaded the bases too often) or outright dismissed as aberrations, which is dishonest, by guys like Abraham.  He simply hasn't been a bum 90% of the time, he's been, at worst, a total bum maybe 15% of the time.  But the way he's treated it's as if he's been a total bum, and it just isn't true.
    Posted by soxnewmex


    Soxnewmex,

    Most of us have been waiting a LONG TIME to jump on the Dice-K band wagon..
    2008 was great as far as most have been concerned!  Sure he was bashed by some, but most absolutely gave him credit...

    What you're ignoring???  is that since then Dice-K has been injured PRIMARILY due to things HE DID in the off season....  THEN, HE NEGLECTED to be honest with coaches & trainers.....  WE fans, & especially the team, get more detailed information about said injuries once he returns home to Japan.  THIS!
    Has been a MAJOR FRUSTRATION for the team & fans....  Since 2008 the TEAM & FANS simply have absolutely NO IDEA what to expect from him???
    More often than not, he gives the team NO CHANCE TO WIN!!!
    He throws in a couple of GREAT GAMES then goes back to his usual BS!!!!!!!!!

    *  We don't know what to think about injuries???  REAL / FAKE ? Who knows this time???
    *  So inconsistent that it is simply maddening!
    *  He's SO SLOW & SO MANY WALKS, it's brutal to watch no matter the outcome
    *  He's not honest w / coaches or fans
    *  He WON'T go along w/ the program ALL other pitchers are asked to do.
    *  5th year here, & he still acts like he CAN'T understand basic requests...
    *  He refuses to STOP the incessant "nibbling" around the plate
          (which by the way is 10 inches off the plate)
    *  He WON'T STOP THE WALKS
    *  It's particularly tough on the guys playing behind him!
    * ETC.  ETC....

    THE BIG PROBLEM!!!!   *  We're into this guy for so much, WE have to put up with it!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In this second season with the 18-3 W/L record and the 2.90 ERA, he also had an astounding 94 walks!!!

    Maybe the guy can be "unhittable" at times, but he also puts lots of pressure on his defense by walking so many batters and, quite frankly, gives many of us anxiety attacks by being so inconsistent.

    He gets himself into hitters counts, he runs his pitch count up high, which causes the manager to spend bullpen arms early in games.

    He was advertised as a superstar before he ever got here. He looks frustrated and anxious when on the mound, not confident and in control.

    He was supposed to be the "new Pedro" , but he is more like the new Brian Rose.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Amen Zilla!

    His act has gotten REAL OLD!!!  MOST are just flat tired of the guy & wish there was some way to get rid of him?????
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    The expectations for him were probably unreasonably high due to the huge signing fee plus the success in the WBC. Also, the stories of how many different pitches he had mastered including the " gyro " ball. Some had him in the Hall of Fame before he even threw a pitch for the Sox. In reality, he has proven to be no more than a fairly decent starter. He has his ups and downs like most average pitchers. All in all, he has to be considered somewhat of a disappointment.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Expectations stem from a 100 mil expenditure.
    Would Henry have done it again?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    How much international money did Henry make off the signing?

    That might help answer the question.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    Expectations stem from a 100 mil expenditure. Would Henry have done it again?
    Posted by harness
    IMO yes. They were going to sign a big ticket FA pitcher one way or the other. Remember where they were. Manny, Papi, Lowell and Tek at the back end of their prime. Beckett and Schilling were at the top of the rotation and then there was Wake. After that it was very, very unclear.

    The NYY were becoming vulnerable, Tampa had not yet emerged. They needed some offense at SS, a RF and a starter and they had a good shot at the whole thing. Coming off of missing the playoffs and the magic of 2003 and 2004 seasons fading the Trio were going for it.

    They had three choices. Zito, Schmidt or Dice K. I think history shows even economically that Dice K was the right choice and there is a banner to make that space between 2004 and 1918 not look so pronounced. :)

    Just my take
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    I don't get upset over it, but over the past 3 years, he is 16-15 with a 5.03.  He had a great Y2, but that was a while back.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Credit?  Who needs credit when your making $8 million to work 25 days a year....oh and you get your own freakin massuse.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Daisuke is not a $100 million man - he is a $52 million man.......he does not see any of that posting fee, so why do some act as if it is part of his contract?  The Seibu Lions got the huge fee for posting one of the most promising young stars in NPB history. We expected the number to big, though perhaps not that big.   Regardless, It did not break the Red Sox bank - it didn't impact team payroll at all - they kept the pedal to the metal and became NASCAR team co-owners - and are now kicking it in the English Premier League. That $51,111,111.11 posting fee is totally irrelevant to you, me, and Daisuke (and by now, Henry and Co. as well).  Too much is made of the fee.  In fact, the Seibu Lions used that money to upgrade their ball park, including updating porcelain in the restrooms and installing eletronically warmed toilet seats!  So quite literally, the posting fee is in the toilet!  I'm sure the Nippon fans appreciate that, but it's time for Red Sox fans to stop blaming Daisuke for the posting fee.    
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    No, but do you really think that $51M did not effect any future signings at all? Even if you figure the luxury tax into the equation, Theo could have had quite a few millions left over.

    I am glad we didn't get Schmidt or Zito as katz points out.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    It's hard to say, Moon.   But the Mets bid $39 million and the Yanks reportedly around $33 million.  So the Sox reportedly paid $12 million more in fees than the next highest bidder.  But I'll bet they made that up in the contract ($52 million was considered a steal at the time, and I imagine the Yanks or Mets would have coughed up more).  

    If you look at the fee as one big chunk and believe the Sox should not have pursued Matsuzaka at all, then sure, it seems like a lot.  But if you look at is as they overpaid by $12 million on the fee to ensure that they won the bid, it doesn't look too bad (Plus, as you pointed out earlier, the Red Sox may have profited in other ways with the signing).  

    All FA signings impact future signings.  So much is made about the fee.  I doubt it slowed the RS down.  They had a spike in payroll that same year.  If the Red Sox won with a 25 million dollar bid and then signed Dice K for 75 million (which would not have been considered extreme at the time), would you still be asking the question?  At that point, it becomes more about the contract, and then it's just like evaluating any other FA contract.  


     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    In Response to Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?:
    No, but do you really think that $51M did not effect any future signings at all? Even if you figure the luxury tax into the equation, Theo could have had quite a few millions left over. I am glad we didn't get Schmidt or Zito as katz points out.
    Posted by moonslav59

    It's not quite so simple as that.  You also have to factor in how much they made off merchandising in Japan, and other similar hidden economic factors.  None of us have those numbers, but based on how much Japanese press was around his first couple years, I'd say the Sox actually MADE money on that $51M investment.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    Yes, I mentioned the international money on another thread.

    All I was trying to point out was that you can't just totally discount the posting fee part of the issue as not effecting any future spending.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from elvis-surfs. Show elvis-surfs's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    i've read that the international money is shared by all teams...i'm fairly sure this is true...it is nice however to not have the yankees be the only team with international recognition...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Why is Dice never given any credit?

    I doubt the Sox make much money from Japan.  I would guess most of the earnings are shared by MLB. 

    March 2, 2007 ESPN Advertisers in Japan and the U.S. ride the wave of the success of Ichiro and others, but MLB teams don't benefit as much as one might think. All of Matsui's and Iguchi's games are televised in Japan, but that TV revenue doesn't go directly to the Yankees and White Sox. It goes into a pool of money that is distributed to all 30 major league teams, as will the revenue generated from when Matsuzaka's games are televised in Japan. The Red Sox will generate some revenue by marketing Matsuzaka, but mostly, said an MLB source, it will be through signage, "and probably won't result in a significant number.''

    IMO DiceK has made his own negative image.  He has been very boring  to watch with all the pausing and nibbling, out of shape, and he complained about the management instead of taking responsibility.   

    5Katz is right though like the Drew signing, look at the other alternatives that off-season and we got lucky.  Like everything our "luck" is relative.  Two names  Matthews Jr and Zito. 

     
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