Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nggaplz61. Show Nggaplz61's posts

    Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Why is it always assumed that Jacoby Ellsbury is gonna bolt from the team or be traded? Hes given so much doubt because of the 2 years he suffered freak injuries, he can be a very good player, he hits for Average, and the potential for power is definitely there. He is exactly the kind of player we should be extending. Hes home grown and can put up some crazy numbers if hes out there every day.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    The assumption is based on Boras. Ells will go free agency route, and some team will offer more than the RS. 

    Ells game has been built on speed and athleticism, and at his age, going 5-7 years on a contract could mean paying $20m for his post peak years....

    Factor is the Bradley replacement factor, most feel that the $$$ Ells will command would be better spent elsewhere. 

    The only remaining question is do the RS move Ells now to get some value back?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Would you give a guy thats going to be 30 next offseason a 7 year deal like the one we gave CC? The answer should be no...Ells is NOT a 20M a year player...Id be ok with a 4/60 with an option for a 5th year if he performs well in 2013 and plays 150+ games. I dont think hes a consistent 30HR hitter. Maybe 15-20...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lstboss. Show lstboss's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The assumption is based on Boras. Ells will go free agency route, and some team will offer more than the RS. 

    Ells game has been built on speed and athleticism, and at his age, going 5-7 years on a contract could mean paying $20m for his post peak years....

    Factor is the Bradley replacement factor, most feel that the $$$ Ells will command would be better spent elsewhere. 

    The only remaining question is do the RS move Ells now to get some value back?

    [/QUOTE]

    Well said,
    Boras has made it perfectly clear that they will not entertain offers from the sox until after he hits the open market.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nggaplz61. Show Nggaplz61's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:


    No, I wouldnt give him a Crawford Contract but you hit the nail on the head he is not a 20M a year player. Ellsburys injury history should serve for getting him on a 4 or 5 year deal 2013/14 free agent class is deep in outfielders so hes not gonna get something crazy like CC. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    He would reject the offer I made above, which is ok. JBJ will be ready in 2014 anyway if all goes according to plan.

    Id be looking to trade him this winter. Id rather get some value now then wait for a draft pick in 2014, then wait for that prospect to develop with no guarentee of him even sniffing MLB...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Would you give a guy thats going to be 30 next offseason a 7 year deal like the one we gave CC? The answer should be no...Ells is NOT a 20M a year player...Id be ok with a 4/60 with an option for a 5th year if he performs well in 2013 and plays 150+ games. I dont think hes a consistent 30HR hitter. Maybe 15-20...

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think he will sign for 4/60. Dodgers, Nats, Rangers and maybe the Yankees figure in the mix. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Would you give a guy thats going to be 30 next offseason a 7 year deal like the one we gave CC? The answer should be no...Ells is NOT a 20M a year player...Id be ok with a 4/60 with an option for a 5th year if he performs well in 2013 and plays 150+ games. I dont think hes a consistent 30HR hitter. Maybe 15-20...

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think he will sign for 4/60. Dodgers, Nats, Rangers and maybe the Yankees figure in the mix. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I know he would reject it. But its the offer I would make, even with a good year. Im looking to get value for him this winter...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    IMO, as soon as he signed with Boras there was no way for an extension of any kind, he doesn't work that way.  I think the other problem is that teams like the ones rkarp mentioned would probably be willing to over pay.  My question is two-fold, 1. how far are the RS willing to go with him seeing that he basically only played  1.5 out of the last 3years and  2.  Can't they make a qualifing offer so at least they get something in return?  Seems to me that if a deal can't be reached either this winter or prior to deadline that would be the way to go.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    "No, I wouldnt give him a Crawford Contract but you hit the nail on the head he is not a 20M a year player"

    And that's why I dismiss him. Because  Boras is convinced he is a 20M a year player and he is going all out to get that amount. I'll be shocked if he doesn't get it. 

    Also, I believe Ellsbury has some grievances against how the Sox/local press have handled his injuries (Sox medical staff in particular) so the Sox would have to outbid other teams to get him back and that's not going to happen. 

    For all those reasons I expect him gone which is why folks around here are skeptical about keeping him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Based on the stats the last 2 seasons, which player would they be getting in a long term deal?  The aberration of the 2011 stats makes me think that something was going on with Jacoby to put up those type of numbers.

    For example are the getting the player who homered every 20 ABs or the one that did it every 75 ABs?

    How much do you pay this player, factoring in his speed and injury history?

     YEAR   GP   AB    R    H  HR  RBI SB  AVG   OBP

    2011 158 660 119 212 32 105 39 0.321 0.376

    2012  74  303   43   82  4    26 14 0.271 0.313

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    We have JBJ.

    Aviles was one of the reasons why we got rid of Scutaro.

    Iglesias is the reason we got rid of Aviles.

    I think Ells will have a fine year, but even if he was low risk, why re-sign Ells for fairly good money when you have an excellent prospect to replace him?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to Nggaplz61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is it always assumed that Jacoby Ellsbury is gonna bolt from the team or be traded? Hes given so much doubt because of the 2 years he suffered freak injuries, he can be a very good player, he hits for Average, and the potential for power is definitely there. He is exactly the kind of player we should be extending. Hes home grown and can put up some crazy numbers if hes out there every day.

    [/QUOTE]


    Very simple......What he will be asking for....Two reasons..........injuries and Boras.....The WHY is solved.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Ask this question: what is there about Boston that Ellsbury would want to stay here?

    I doubt he'd return here even if we offer a million more than the highest offer.

    It's my opinion, but I think there is virtually no chance he stays here. With that in mind, we should do like the Angels just did and trade Ellsbury before we get nothing in return but a comp sandwich draft pick.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to Nggaplz61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is it always assumed that Jacoby Ellsbury is gonna bolt from the team or be traded? Hes given so much doubt because of the 2 years he suffered freak injuries, he can be a very good player, he hits for Average, and the potential for power is definitely there. He is exactly the kind of player we should be extending. Hes home grown and can put up some crazy numbers if hes out there every day.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ells is a huge risk even if he stays healthy and has a good season.  An often injured player at a young age "like Sizemore" even though Ells injuries have been minor in comparison doesn't normally change overnight.

    He won't be in very high demand as a FA without another monster year and staying off the DL.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    The way Elles is going he might end up taking a 1-2 year deal in 2014 hoping to put it all together "again" and get a biiger pay. Anything short of 2011 numbers and he is "screwed" in the FA market.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask this question: what is there about Boston that Ellsbury would want to stay here?

    I doubt he'd return here even if we offer a million more than the highest offer.

    It's my opinion, but I think there is virtually no chance he stays here. With that in mind, we should do like the Angels just did and trade Ellsbury before we get nothing in return but a comp sandwich draft pick.

    [/QUOTE]


    When did the Angels trade Ellsbury...I totally missed that??

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A. He's a career loser albatross

    B. He doesn't take responsibility for showing up for work

    C. When he has an injury he takes 10 to 100 times longer to return to work

    D. When he finally does return to work, he makes sure he's terrible by loafing through what's left of the season and waiting until he gets closer to FA

    E. He's the most overrated Red Sox player in history

    F. He always plays the big hop

    G. He always takes games off for "precaution"

    H. The Red Sox have a superior athlete who could play CF right now at the MLB level

    I. He'll be 30 years old for the first year of his FA years contract

    J. Despite a career year seeing meatballs in front of big years by Pedroia and AGon and Ortiz, he'll never hit for career average pop and power because he short arms the ball and shifts his weight to his back foot

    K. He always pulls up and makes sure he doesn't hit wall padding

    L. He covers less ground than a top fielding CF'er because his depth perception is poor but he fools people by making routine catches look like good catchers by using his speed to try and recover from his mistakes

    M. He can't but a lick despite the fact that speed is what his MLB career is dependent on

    N. He runs the bases poorly despite the speed he has

    O. During his overpaid FA years and the 10 million cost for 2013, his speed will be declining as he moves into his thirties (see God's Law, or, for Democrat Party atheists, Nature's Law)

    P. Entire career in college and minors and MLB, where he is an everyday season player in a team leadership position, he puts himself above the team and poisons the team winning attitude

    Q. When making a play or getting on base or extra bases are critical in tipping point moments of team competition, he performs his worst and way below his ability level

    R. He has the weakest throwing arm for any MLB CF'er I've seen in my entire life

    S. Has no opposite field  or CF power, so instead of getting on base more by going the other way or with the pitch on outer half pitches, he tries to pull nearly every pitch in an attempt to produce more HR and extra base hits because he's been coached on position player stat profiles that pay the highest amount in arbitration and FA

    T. He's an aloof loner in a team sport, with the personality of his agent

    U. He complained about being moved to a different position instead of respecting the team game of baseball

    V. During the long season, he chose to "rehab" in AZ, near his agent, while allowing his agent to become his mouthpiece for nearly an entire season

    W. After taking at least 10 times longer, than the average professional athlete, to return to his job from broken ribs and dislocated shoulder with no structural damage, despite being young in MLB career age, he returned for a few games and then quit on the team and shut himself down for the season with the rib injury and played with apathy after missing most of the 2012 season 

    X. Has never communicated that he has an intense desire to end his career with the Red Sox

    Y. Has never communicated a deep appreciation to the Red Sox ticket and media purchasing Red Sox fans

    Z. Since becoming a season starting position player, a half a decade ago, his face represents the most embarrassing combination of losing Red Sox baseball in relation to nearly a billion dollar in labor costs

    And, everyone isn't so quick to "dismiss Ellsbury", whatever that means. You are a huge fan of Ellsbury and are pipe dreaming that he'll be signed to a big FA contract years with the Red Sox.   

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Can you now provide examples of your A to Z analysis because frankly you are just making things up as you go.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    I think the chances of Ellbury staying with the Sox after 2013 are very low, for all of the reasons that have been stated.  Unless he's willing to give the Sox a home team discount, which I don't believe for a second he is, the Sox should let him walk.

    That said, I wouldn't trade him this offseason unless somebody offers the Sox a deal they just can't refuse.  IMO, they shouldn't sell low on him just to get back something that is better than a draft pick. 

    For those who truly believe that we are in rebuilding mode next year, trading Ells now makes sense.  For those of us who think the Sox can contend next season, keeping Ells for 2013 makes more sense. 

     

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Regardless of whether or not you want to trade Ellsbury, I don't get the fear of dealing with Boras. Hate him all you want , but Boras is the number one agent in baseball. He represents many top players, including the highly touted but still unproven Bradley Jr.  Boras has to be dealt with. That is the way it is today, like it or not.  Do you think the Yankees are sweating dealing with Boras regarding Cano ? Of course they are not. At what point did the Sox become a small market franchise , unable to deal with the high power agents ? 

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to Nggaplz61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is it always assumed that Jacoby Ellsbury is gonna bolt from the team or be traded? Hes given so much doubt because of the 2 years he suffered freak injuries, he can be a very good player, he hits for Average, and the potential for power is definitely there. He is exactly the kind of player we should be extending. Hes home grown and can put up some crazy numbers if hes out there every day.

    [/QUOTE]


    I will agree with this post cause i too like to keep elsbury in the sox organization. I personally would only sign him short term ie 3 to 4 year deal. The sox do have some prospects coming up from the minors ie. brentz and can't think of the other OF but he can steal bases and can a future lead hitter for the sox. If everything works out these two can be Boston's future OF's. So Cody Ross and Els i will like to see sign to a 3 to 4 year deal while these prospects mature into the majors.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    Ellsbury should be made a great offer....either he wants to play here at that offer...or move on. If it is about the most $$$ for Boras and Ells then there is no sense getting caught up in that. Use that money elsewhere...like Pitching

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from elvis-surfs. Show elvis-surfs's posts

    Re: Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Ellsbury?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A. He's a career loser albatross

    B. He doesn't take responsibility for showing up for work

    C. When he has an injury he takes 10 to 100 times longer to return to work

    D. When he finally does return to work, he makes sure he's terrible by loafing through what's left of the season and waiting until he gets closer to FA

    E. He's the most overrated Red Sox player in history

    F. He always plays the big hop

    G. He always takes games off for "precaution"

    H. The Red Sox have a superior athlete who could play CF right now at the MLB level

    I. He'll be 30 years old for the first year of his FA years contract

    J. Despite a career year seeing meatballs in front of big years by Pedroia and AGon and Ortiz, he'll never hit for career average pop and power because he short arms the ball and shifts his weight to his back foot

    K. He always pulls up and makes sure he doesn't hit wall padding

    L. He covers less ground than a top fielding CF'er because his depth perception is poor but he fools people by making routine catches look like good catchers by using his speed to try and recover from his mistakes

    M. He can't but a lick despite the fact that speed is what his MLB career is dependent on

    N. He runs the bases poorly despite the speed he has

    O. During his overpaid FA years and the 10 million cost for 2013, his speed will be declining as he moves into his thirties (see God's Law, or, for Democrat Party atheists, Nature's Law)

    P. Entire career in college and minors and MLB, where he is an everyday season player in a team leadership position, he puts himself above the team and poisons the team winning attitude

    Q. When making a play or getting on base or extra bases are critical in tipping point moments of team competition, he performs his worst and way below his ability level

    R. He has the weakest throwing arm for any MLB CF'er I've seen in my entire life

    S. Has no opposite field  or CF power, so instead of getting on base more by going the other way or with the pitch on outer half pitches, he tries to pull nearly every pitch in an attempt to produce more HR and extra base hits because he's been coached on position player stat profiles that pay the highest amount in arbitration and FA

    T. He's an aloof loner in a team sport, with the personality of his agent

    U. He complained about being moved to a different position instead of respecting the team game of baseball

    V. During the long season, he chose to "rehab" in AZ, near his agent, while allowing his agent to become his mouthpiece for nearly an entire season

    W. After taking at least 10 times longer, than the average professional athlete, to return to his job from broken ribs and dislocated shoulder with no structural damage, despite being young in MLB career age, he returned for a few games and then quit on the team and shut himself down for the season with the rib injury and played with apathy after missing most of the 2012 season 

    X. Has never communicated that he has an intense desire to end his career with the Red Sox

    Y. Has never communicated a deep appreciation to the Red Sox ticket and media purchasing Red Sox fans

    Z. Since becoming a season starting position player, a half a decade ago, his face represents the most embarrassing combination of losing Red Sox baseball in relation to nearly a billion dollar in labor costs

    And, everyone isn't so quick to "dismiss Ellsbury", whatever that means. You are a huge fan of Ellsbury and are pipe dreaming that he'll be signed to a big FA contract years with the Red Sox.   

     

    [/QUOTE]

    wow, a trotter post I agree with 

     

     

Share