Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    Enough said in the title.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    Ive been saying this for over a month now...
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    It cannot hurt and after what I have seen from our pitching it should be a mandate to give him a shot. Taz has been here long enough and the team will need to see if he is worth keeping around.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    Yes, let's start Tazawa.

    Because converting relievers to starters has worked out so well in the past, and there is no reason at all to even try to learn anything from the biggest mistake of the entire 2012 season...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]Yes, let's start Tazawa. Because converting relievers to starters has worked out so well in the past, and there is no reason at all to even try to learn anything from the biggest mistake of the entire 2012 season...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    So what -- try once, fail, never try again?

    Look at all the relievers who have successfully made the switch -- Chris Sale, C.J. Lewis, guy with the Blue Jays (forget his name), etc. Heck, even Franklin Morales.

    And Bard had a bunch of good starts this year so he did show some signs that it might work.

    In general, there's nothing wrong with converting a reliever to a starter if you think he has the stuff.

    Specifically with Tazawa, I'm not sure but I guess there's nothing wrong with giving him a shot in the spring.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013? : So what -- try once, fail, never try again? Look at all the relievers who have successfully made the switch -- Chris Sale, C.J. Lewis, guy with the Blue Jays (forget his name), etc. Heck, even Franklin Morales. And Bard had a bunch of good starts this year so he did show some signs that it might work. In general, there's nothing wrong with converting a reliever to a starter if you think he has the stuff. Specifically with Tazawa, I'm not sure but I guess there's nothing wrong with giving him a shot in the spring.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    See, you missed the mistake, which was even worse.  It wasn't about moving a reliever to the rotation.  (You left out Jeff Samardjzia and Lance Lynn, who is essentially the same pitcher as Bard.)

    The Sox biggest deathnail in 2011 was a very clear lack of pitching depth.  They did some "status quo" stuff at the bullpen level - Bailey in, Papelbon out.  but nothing really major. 

    This year at the trade deadline, more of the same.  Bring in some minimal arm, and try and re-arrage some of these here Titanic deck chairs into a much prettier pattern.  But really, did the Sox add any actual pitching depth beyond a lefty specialist? Sine last September?

    And Tazawa is already on board, too.  They really need to get a good veteran arm that can provide needed innings, preferably good ones, too.  Lackey MIGHT fill the bill, but also might not.  At the very least, he should not be inspriring confidencemabd everything good he does a bonus.

    Moving Tazawa to the rotation will do nothing but deplete depth and keep another arm in a role that maxes out its innings. 

    They really will need to add a starter, especially if they deal Beckett...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013? : So what -- try once, fail, never try again? Look at all the relievers who have successfully made the switch -- Chris Sale, C.J. Lewis, guy with the Blue Jays (forget his name), etc. Heck, even Franklin Morales. And Bard had a bunch of good starts this year so he did show some signs that it might work. In general, there's nothing wrong with converting a reliever to a starter if you think he has the stuff. Specifically with Tazawa, I'm not sure but I guess there's nothing wrong with giving him a shot in the spring.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    CJ Wilson.  You meant CJ Wilson.

    Your name combines Colby Lewis with CJ Wilson.  Or it combines CJ Wilson with CS Lewis, and will tell us how to convert quality starting pitching out of the denizens of Narnia...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013? : See, you missed the mistake, which was even worse.  It wasn't about moving a reliever to the rotation.  (You left out Jeff Samardjzia and Lance Lynn, who is essentially the same pitcher as Bard.) The Sox biggest deathnail in 2011 was a very clear lack of pitching depth.  They did some "status quo" stuff at the bullpen level - Bailey in, Papelbon out.  but nothing really major.  This year at the trade deadline, more of the same.  Bring in some minimal arm, and try and re-arrage some of these here Titanic deck chairs into a much prettier pattern.  But really, did the Sox add any actual pitching depth beyond a lefty specialist? Sine last September? And Tazawa is already on board, too.  They really need to get a good veteran arm that can provide needed innings, preferably good ones, too.  Lackey MIGHT fill the bill, but also might not.  At the very least, he should not be inspriring confidencemabd everything good he does a bonus. Moving Tazawa to the rotation will do nothing but deplete depth and keep another arm in a role that maxes out its innings.  They really will need to add a starter, especially if they deal Beckett...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and we don't need another 4/5 slot starter! Why not move Miller back? Aceves? Mortensen?

    notin is right, we need to add a quality innings eater.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

      A few more.  " Bulldog " Translation:  Lacks good stuff.    " Pitches to contact "   Translation: Stinks, hopes to get lucky.    " Piece of the puzzle "  Translation:  Another useless ham and egger. " Good number 3 or 4  starter " Translation: I have no idea what that means.  " Has some pop "  Translation: Strikeout prone stiff.  " Player's manager"  Translation: No leadership ability. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?


    Too soon to make a call like that now, but I can see his name in the conversation. Wasn't he a starter when they signed him? Also, didn't he make a couple of starts for the ML club in 2010? (In all fairness I don't remember how he did.) So maybe give him a start in September, let him work out over the winter as a starter and see how things go in the spring. If it dosn't look good, back to the pen. What is there to lose?

    Oh, yeah. Trade Beckett ... we can dream.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]Yes, let's start Tazawa. Because converting relievers to starters has worked out so well in the past, and there is no reason at all to even try to learn anything from the biggest mistake of the entire 2012 season...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Notin,
    you know Tazawa was a starter  before he had TJS, right? He just got healthy again and there was no spot for him in the rotation so they put him in the pen out of necessity...
    He was NEVER a failed starter...Besides, its worked pretty good so far with Morales who dealt with the same issues as Bard has dealt with.
    Since Tazawa has recovered from TJS hes gained 4mph on his FB and is at a consistant 94-96. He already has above average secondary "stuff' and with the gain in velocity, the seperation makes him that much better. hes made some really good hitters look silly  at times this year. I say give him a shot in ST.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    another innings eater? lol come on now guys. we need a leader, an Ace.... and another home-run hitter. 
     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    BTW did not Bard pitch poorly in September 2011 when we needed him most? Is it out of the realm of possibility his problems started last year? Is it feasibale he would have failed as a closer?

    I did not want to move him into the rotation. I liked him right in the 8 spot. However he is so bad now that one would wonder if he would pitched well in any role this year.

    Taz is destined to be a middle reliever on this team so why not let him start a couple of games, see what happens. Otherwise by 2014 we will be reading about his pitching with another team.

    Another innings eater? I am still laughing. What a solution.
     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    All true, otherwise Taz will remain lost in the organization and eventually let go... where he just might find his place with one of our adversaries.

    I don't think to many teams grow and nurture middle relief pitchers do they? Surely they would want to know if he can start or even close for that matter.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    Lackey was supposed to be that quality innings eater.

    Oops again.

    They are in no financial position to be adding an ace anytime soon unless they grow one.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    End of the day, it starts and ends with Lester returning to form! Short of that, we need to add another top of the rotation guy to the mix.

    Here what we need in 2013

    Jon Lester; see Jon Lester circa 2008-2011
    33 starts/220 IP 18 to 20 wins with a sub 3.50 ERA

    Clay Buccholz; To stay healthy;
    33 starts/200 IP 16 to 18 wins with sub 4.00 ERA

    Felix Doubront; to build on his 2012 showing
    30 starts/180-200 IP 12-14 wins with a sub 4.25 ERA

    Franklin Morales; He's proven that he's more than capable 
    25 starts 160 IP 8 to 10 wins with a sub 4.25 ERA

    John Lackey; to come back strong and pitch to his resume!
    25 starts/160 IP 8 to 10 wins with a sub 4.00 ERA

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    * Josh Beckett; if not traded is the wildcard...
    30 starts 180-200 IP 12-14 wins sub 4.25 ERA

    It feels to me that he's worn out his welcome in Boston. A falen hero if you will, getting booed off the mound in Fenway. His performance this year has been disapointing but not horrible. Given the recent events dating back to last year Josh hasn't exactly endeared himself with the fans of late...It might be a case of moving him in the best interest of both parties. I wouldn't give him away though...

    Organizational Depth; Job opening...see Cook or similar veterans looking to make a club in spring training?


    2013 Free Agents Starting Pitchers * 2013 option
    Scott Baker *
    Joe Blanton
    Kevin Correia
    Jorge De La Rosa *
    R.A. Dickey *
    Scott Feldman *
    Gavin Floyd *
    Zack Greinke
    Jeremy Guthrie
    Dan Haren *
    Roberto Hernandez *

    Tim Hudson *
    Colby Lewis
    Francisco Liriano
    Kyle Lohse
    Derek Lowe
    Shaun Marcum
    Daisuke Matsuzaka
    Brandon McCarthy
    Carl Pavano
    Jake Peavy *
    Anibal Sanchez
    Jonathan Sanchez
    Ervin Santana *
    Joe Saunders
    James Shields *
    Jake Westbrook *
    Randy Wolf *
    Carlos Zambrano *
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?

    In Response to Re: Why not try Tazawa in the rotation in 2013?:
    [QUOTE]BTW did not Bard pitch poorly in September 2011 when we needed him most? Is it out of the realm of possibility his problems started last year? Is it feasibale he would have failed as a closer? I did not want to move him into the rotation. I liked him right in the 8 spot. However he is so bad now that one would wonder if he would pitched well in any role this year. Taz is destined to be a middle reliever on this team so why not let him start a couple of games, see what happens. Otherwise by 2014 we will be reading about his pitching with another team. Another innings eater? I am still laughing. What a solution.
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]

    They don’t need a simple “innings eater”, but they do need a pitcher who can give them a considerable workload. These classifications are way too simple. “Ace” and “innings eater” are not the only two categories for SP, and certainly not all pitchers thrown into one category or another are equal.

    The issue with Bard wasn’t simply trying to make him a starter, an idea I never liked because of his repertoire and control. Lance Lynn is also a 2-pitch pitcher and is still throwing innings quite well, so it can work, at least short term. The issue with making Bard a starter was that they were throwing him into a role where they might have needed him for 150-180IP when he was a 60 inning guy for the past several seasons (with a spotty minor league record as a starter, as well). And putting him in this role when both Lackey and Matsuzaka were out was a recipe for disaster. Especially since Buchholz was also coming off injury, and his IP total was also up in the air.

    A team really needs to get as close to 900IP as possible from their starting 5, with some 500-600IP coming from other starters and bullpen (assuming no major mid-season additions). The Sox knew 3 guys were questionable or unavailable, yet somehow decided expanding the role of a guy who never threw anywhere near 100IP in MLB was a big part of the solution. How on Earth did anyone expect this to work out?

    Getting an “Ace” is the easy answer. Yes, they could use an elite SP. Who couldn’t? But “aces” don’t grow on trees. They are expensive in multiple ways of you don’t have one coming up, which the Sox don’t have. And if they get injured, or simply have an off-year, it’s debilitating. Look at Philadelphia. Last year, they had “four aces” and the media was postulating they had the best rotation of all time. How did it turn out? They made a first round exit last year, and had a fire sale this year, with way too much payroll locked up in3 SP next year.

    Buchholz is a solid TOR pitcher, and normally Lester is a solid one as well. Adding, say, Greinke will certainly be an improvement. Unless he tanks it like he has in Anaheim. Fortunately for Anaheim, it wasn’t too costly to get him, and he won’t be handcuffing them in 2013. But that doesn’t mean he won’t be handcuffing someone else.

    So the question remains, who gets those 900IP in 2013? Buchholz and Lester will hopefully get their share, maybe 350-400IP. Doubront is probably penciled in for some. Lackey will be back, and hopefully with something left and something else to prove. If those 4 pitchers give you 700IP, which is a lot to expect all things considered (one coming off TJ, one second year, and one injury-prone pitcher in Buchholz who has missed parts of the last 2 seasons), do you want Tazawa trying to give you 150-200IP? Who gets those other innings? Tazawa has less than 100IP total since coming back from surgery, and hasn’t thrown 100IP since A-ball. And 100IP in A-ball is certainly not the same as 100IP in MLB. You can’t say “We need an ace” and come back with “See what Tazawa can do.” He might be stellar, but he won’t be stellar for 200IP, or even close to it. Make him double his workload for the past 2 seasons all in 2013, and he will fall apart physically. Book it.

    Tazawa is probably better utilized in a spot-starter / bullpen role, much like Morales. There will be starts and innings to go around. Getting an effective, experienced starting pitcher who is capable of giving you 180IP is a must. And getting the best one possible who doesn’t destroy the farm system or budget makes it all the better. Obviously a guy giving you 200IP with a 5.50ERA isn’t much help, but really, how much help is a guy who gives you a 3.50ERA, but then who falls apart at the 80IP mark? (In fact, I can argue that the first pitcher is of more use, since he won’t take down other games as well by destroying the bullpen through overuse.) We can all cry how unlucky this team is with injuries, and how the medical staff is at fault, or the pitching coach is for not “stretching Tazawa / whoever out” properly. Or we can acknowledge this plan was flawed at the outset and would have required considerable luck to work out. With the starter depth this team has, that puts them right back in the “throw it against the wall and see what sticks” methodology. And if they are lucky, they get Aaron Cook Redux. There is no lower limit for how unlucky a team can be. Look at the relievers pressed into starting this year. While Sale and Samardzjia have succeeded, how is Feliz doing? (In fact, Sale has been shut down twice already this year, including one time nearly being pushed back into the bullpen for IP concerns. Were the White Sox out of it, he might have been shut down for the season by now.) The White Sox, unlike the Red Sox, had much healthier and durable SP from the outset of the season. And even had some better minor league depth as well. The Rangers did not, and are scrambling for capable arms at this point, clinging to oft-injured and normally mildly effective Scott Feldman to keep the magic going, and are pressing for the post-season with 4 other pitchers with less than 5 combined MLB seasons of career work. Not really that good, and probably means an early exit for Texas.

    The Sox do need innings over short term success. Especially if Josh Beckett is no longer here, which I strongly suspect will be the case…

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share