Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    The team ERA is 3.78.  Peavy's ERA is 4.28, a half a run higher.  So the Sox are dumping a brilliant fielder in order to overpay a guy who is not a good bet to make the rotation better. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The team ERA is 3.78.  Peavy's ERA is 4.28, a half a run higher.  So the Sox are dumping a brilliant fielder in order to overpay a guy who is not a good bet to make the rotation better. 




    Max....not sure it is fair to judge Peavy on just that number.......in 2012 pitching for the Same pitching Coach he has now with the Sox , peavy had a 3.37 ERA, a 1.10 WHIP, a .234 BAA , all Top 10 in the league and all significantly better than anyone on the Red Sox

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The team ERA is 3.78.  Peavy's ERA is 4.28, a half a run higher.  So the Sox are dumping a brilliant fielder in order to overpay a guy who is not a good bet to make the rotation better. 




    The team ERA+ is 113; Peavy is at 100. Lester is at 99. Dempster is at 100. Peavy is similar to those two in terms of performance, but with a lower WHIP. The addition of Peavy won't make any difference unless Breakholz decided he will pitch again, assuming he pitches effectively.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxfan65. Show soxfan65's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The team ERA is 3.78.  Peavy's ERA is 4.28, a half a run higher.  So the Sox are dumping a brilliant fielder in order to overpay a guy who is not a good bet to make the rotation better. 



    Although Peavy's ERA is higher one could argue that  his rib injury that sent him to the DL pushed his ERA up.   Peavy was lit up for a total of12 runs in the two games prior to going on the DL.  Take away those two games and his era drops to 3.18.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     




    Pumpsie,

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to tomnev's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    Pumpsie,

     

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account



    Yes you do have to take history into account, but how far back do you go? I say that the most important history is what a player has done recently, meaning THIS YEAR. Look at some of the stars who performed last year but who are not doing the job this year and vice versa. Players have good years and bad years. Beckett was a perfect example. In 2007 his ERA was 3.27, but a year earlier and later it was 5.01 and 4.23. Peavy is not having as good a year this year as last year, perhaps due to his injury. We are getting THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Peavy, not the 2007 or 2012 version.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    His stats show that the ERA is inflated. His WHIP is extremely low for an ERA that high. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to tomnev's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    Pumpsie,

     

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account

     



    Yes you do have to take history into account, but how far back do you go? I say that the most important history is what a player has done recently, meaning THIS YEAR. Look at some of the stars who performed last year but who are not doing the job this year and vice versa. Players have good years and bad years. Beckett was a perfect example. In 2007 his ERA was 3.27, but a year earlier and later it was 5.01 and 4.23. Peavy is not having as good a year this year as last year, perhaps due to his injury. We are getting THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Peavy, not the 2007 or 2012 version.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Unless we're talking about Lester, then we go back multiple years....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBruinss. Show BostonBruinss's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    Its all about the now!! Happy to have Peavy aboard

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    Pumpsie,

     

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account

     

     



    Yes you do have to take history into account, but how far back do you go? I say that the most important history is what a player has done recently, meaning THIS YEAR. Look at some of the stars who performed last year but who are not doing the job this year and vice versa. Players have good years and bad years. Beckett was a perfect example. In 2007 his ERA was 3.27, but a year earlier and later it was 5.01 and 4.23. Peavy is not having as good a year this year as last year, perhaps due to his injury. We are getting THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Peavy, not the 2007 or 2012 version.

     

     




    Unless we're talking about Lester, then we go back multiple years....

     



    You were wrong. You are exceptionally easy to ignore.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where his ERA was 3.62 after that 1st game was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

    Im not trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    As I've said several times in the last two days,  I hate this  trade because we gave up a promising youngster who looked to be our long-term answer at shortstop  for a decent 32-year-old pitcher.  That said,  it's ridiculous to suggest  Peavy's addition doesn't help our rotation. (What I hate is that it hurts our future).

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    Southpaw777 and other Peavy defenders,

    You're right.  He certainly is worth defending and my OP is over the top (and a repeat of another thread).  Peavy did have  a very good year in 2012 and his WHIP this year is also pretty good. 

     I'm just stirring things up because I don't like the trade.  Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo both say it is absolutely the right move, so that kind of leaves me in the lurch.  I also happen to think that Cherington has made a lot of good moves, so he could be right again here. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where he was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

     

    Imnot trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.



    I think they all count-all the games. How he will perform once he rounds back into shape is anyone's guess. And how much the injury had to do with his two bad games is also a matter of conjecture. My guess is that he will be like Dempster and Lester-decent, but not more than a #3 at best-which is all we really need if CB decides he wants to pitch again.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Southpaw777 and other Peavy defenders,

    You're right.  He certainly is worth defending and my OP is over the top (and a repeat of another thread).  Peavy did have  a very good year in 2012 and his WHIP this year is also pretty good. 

     I'm just stirring things up because I don't like the trade.  Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo both say it is absolutely the right move, so that kind of leaves me in the lurch.  I also happen to think that Cherington has made a lot of good moves, so he could be right again here. 




    I can understand yours and other posters dislike for trading Iggy. But we got a much needed and good return for what we gave up. There are risks, like any trade. But this move helps both the rotation and the pen for a playoff run.

    I agree with you that Ben has proved hes made a lot more good moves then bad. Ill trust him on this one too.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where he was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

     

    Imnot trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.

     



    I think they all count-all the games. How he will perform once he rounds back into shape is anyone's guess. And how much the injury had to do with his two bad games is also a matter of conjecture. My guess is that he will be like Dempster and Lester-decent, but not more than a #3 at best-which is all we really need if CB decides he wants to pitch again.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thats pretty much how I see him as a 2-3 starter with around a 3.50ERA

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    As I've said several times in the last two days,  I hate this  trade because we gave up a promising youngster who looked to be our long-term answer at shortstop  for a decent 32-year-old pitcher.  That said,  it's ridiculous to suggest  Peavy's addition doesn't help our rotation. (What I hate is that it hurts our future).

     

     



    Iggy was not going to be our future SS anyway. Bogaerts will assume that role, most likely. Cecchini or WMB will take over at 3B. You don't get a player like Peavy for nothing; Iggy has value, but he plays at a position of organizational depth for the Red Sox. I don't necessarily trust Cherington, but I think that this was a decent trade.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where he was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

     

    Imnot trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.

     

     



    I think they all count-all the games. How he will perform once he rounds back into shape is anyone's guess. And how much the injury had to do with his two bad games is also a matter of conjecture. My guess is that he will be like Dempster and Lester-decent, but not more than a #3 at best-which is all we really need if CB decides he wants to pitch again.

     

     




    Thats pretty much how I see him as a 2-3 starter with around a 3.50ERA

     



    The 3.50 number is yours. I said he would be like Dempster and Lester, who are #3 SP AT BEST with ERAs of 4.24 and 4.27 respectively. You have more confidence in him than I do.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    Pumpsie,

     

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account

     

     



    Yes you do have to take history into account, but how far back do you go? I say that the most important history is what a player has done recently, meaning THIS YEAR. Look at some of the stars who performed last year but who are not doing the job this year and vice versa. Players have good years and bad years. Beckett was a perfect example. In 2007 his ERA was 3.27, but a year earlier and later it was 5.01 and 4.23. Peavy is not having as good a year this year as last year, perhaps due to his injury. We are getting THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Peavy, not the 2007 or 2012 version.

     

     




    Unless we're talking about Lester, then we go back multiple years....

     

     



    You were wrong. You are exceptionally easy to ignore.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wrong about what?

    Are you saying you haven't use the "Lester hasn"t been good since 2011, so he wont be good going forward" line before?

    You used the same argument before, when you wanted Ortiz benched , after a bad start.

    "Only this year's numbers matter."

    I'm just curious why it doesn't apply to all players.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    This is a "knee jerk" reaction to a first half that the ownership wasn't expecting. Now the rebuilding process is put on the back burner in a lame attempt to keep pace with Tampa Bay and the Orioles who have surpassed the Yankees and Red Sox in rebuilding from within. Toronto is heading down this road also, but the maturation progress was slowed by many injuries to young pitchers last year. In a nutshell, my feeling is along the lines of what Lloyd said. I would rather they kept on with the rebuilding process instead of giving false hope to RSN that they can win it all. Of course, the lacklustre Yankees and their problems opens the door for the Sox to try and throw their weight around, especially after shedding all the excess baggage last August. However, what I see is more "excess baggage" in Peavy, a 32 year old pitcher who is being touted as a mini-saviour, but in reality is a slighty ( and I do mean only slightly) above average pitcher. The only reason Peavy looks good, is that there is so many bad pitchers out there.

     

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    Pumpsie,

     

     

    Of course what he does for us is the only importan thing, but if the point of the Post was to jusdge whther it was a wise trade, you have to take history into account

     

     



    Yes you do have to take history into account, but how far back do you go? I say that the most important history is what a player has done recently, meaning THIS YEAR. Look at some of the stars who performed last year but who are not doing the job this year and vice versa. Players have good years and bad years. Beckett was a perfect example. In 2007 his ERA was 3.27, but a year earlier and later it was 5.01 and 4.23. Peavy is not having as good a year this year as last year, perhaps due to his injury. We are getting THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Peavy, not the 2007 or 2012 version.

     

     




    Unless we're talking about Lester, then we go back multiple years....

     

     

     



    You were wrong. You are exceptionally easy to ignore.

     

     



     

    Wrong about what?

    Are you saying you haven't use the "Lester hasn"t been good since 2011, so he wont be good going forward" line before?

    You used the same argument before, when you wanted Ortiz benched , after a bad start.

    "Only this year's numbers matter."

    I'm just curious why it doesn't apply to all players.



    You had said that I cannot ignore you...you were wrong. But since you have apparently decided to be civil, sure, we can talk. In regard to Lester or any other player its THIS YEAR's numbers that are most important to me. In fact, even more recent performance, say, over the last few months, is even more important. I am not going to discount last year, but they are less important than recent performance. The best predictor of future performance is recent past performance. I don't think thats really debateable.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where he was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

     

    Imnot trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.

     

     



    I think they all count-all the games. How he will perform once he rounds back into shape is anyone's guess. And how much the injury had to do with his two bad games is also a matter of conjecture. My guess is that he will be like Dempster and Lester-decent, but not more than a #3 at best-which is all we really need if CB decides he wants to pitch again.

     

     




    Thats pretty much how I see him as a 2-3 starter with around a 3.50ERA

     

     



    The 3.50 number is yours. I said he would be like Dempster and Lester, who are #3 SP AT BEST with ERAs of 4.24 and 4.27 respectively. You have more confidence in him than I do.

     



    Pumpsie - Did the Red Sox get the best or second best starter traded at the deadline? Yes.
    Did they improve their rotation? Yes. His WHIP is sub 1.20, his K:BB ratio is 4.5:1, his numbers were inflated due to US Cellular field and the LHB home runs he gave up which he won't give up as much in Fenway.

    You wouldn't be happy with Cliff Lee.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why Peavy? He will make this pitching staff worse, not better

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    I like and respect your takes on thing Max, but wasnt your last thread 1/2 hour ago basically the same thing as this?

    Peavys numbers last year were those of a legit #2 starter. Before the arm issues he was an ACE for a 5 year period. Then can the arm issues which Im sure inflated the ERA. he got that issue resolved and looked great last year. Slow start this year (not uncommon) then started to really pitch good again when the broken rib happened. He is insurance for a PO run.

    Buch is hurt, lackey not pitching last year and Doubie never pitching more than 161IP, both could hit a wall. Then factor in the possibility of another injury. Peavy was the best option on the market and it cost ius a player who, although a GG, was expendable with our depth.

    We could have got Norris, Feldman or Garza and given up a lot more. It was a smart move.

     

     



    With all due respect SP, I could not care less what Peavy did last year, or about the fact that he won a Cy Young six years ago. I care only about what he did recently (=this year) and what he does for the RED Sox.

     

     




    He had a 2.97ERA before he stared dealing with the rib injury, then had 2 bad games where he was removed after 2IP of the 2nd game. That blew up his ERA. Hes pitched OK since coming back after a month and a half. But I didnt expect him to come out blazing after doing absolutely nothing for almost 2 months with a broken rib.

     

    Imnot trying to make him out to be an ace, but hes better than the mid 4ERA max is posting.

     

     



    I think they all count-all the games. How he will perform once he rounds back into shape is anyone's guess. And how much the injury had to do with his two bad games is also a matter of conjecture. My guess is that he will be like Dempster and Lester-decent, but not more than a #3 at best-which is all we really need if CB decides he wants to pitch again.

     

     




    Thats pretty much how I see him as a 2-3 starter with around a 3.50ERA

     

     



    The 3.50 number is yours. I said he would be like Dempster and Lester, who are #3 SP AT BEST with ERAs of 4.24 and 4.27 respectively. You have more confidence in him than I do.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, so we dont agreeWink

     

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