Why remove Wake?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    From what I've gathered from the postgame reports from the media, Wakefield and Francona had agreed before the game on a pitch count of 75.  Wakefield was quoted after the game that he was very surprised to have made it as far as he did, or words to that effect.  It sounds to me like mentally he was ready to leave the game at that point, and that can be an important factor too.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    We do have access to pitcher v batter information.

    It seems Tito does not use that information in all cases, otherwise why are so many lefties starting vs most LHPs? Why dose he still sometimes bat them high in the line-up even with horribl one-on-one splits?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    I'm not sure it was as much mental as it was physical. He wasn't stretched out this ST or this year. That would be understandable for others, but Wake is seen differently.

    I can understand Tito not wanting to push it. But the way this pen has been so erratic, Tito might start altering his approach.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dcater. Show dcater's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    He threw 75 pitches...but didn't he sit for 2 full weeks without an appearance??? gee, let me think..guy is throwing a shutout, he's dominating and bring him out for a guy who has been at best a 50-50 pitcher of late...Hell, had they brought in Albers I could at least understand, but Jenks???? in that situation??? jesus.....Look, Wakefield is a soldier and soldiers don't trash their COs. Wakefield knows he is being jerked around, and we all know (well a few fans here have figured it out) that this is a PR-machine generated way of easing Tim out the Sox pitching plans and into early retirement. It's really age discrimination, and can easily be compared to the same things that happen in private business, non-sports, executive boardrooms across America. You get old, you do a good job, you get forced out. It's such a ridiculous way to treat people.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dcater. Show dcater's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    If you think any of the 5 starters ahead of Tim would have been pulled for a situational at bat, you guys are all smoking really dangerous stuff.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dcater. Show dcater's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    In Response to Re: Why remove Wake?:
    We do have access to pitcher v batter information. It seems Tito does not use that information in all cases, otherwise why are so many lefties starting vs most LHPs? Why dose he still sometimes bat them high in the line-up even with horribl one-on-one splits?
    Posted by moonslav59


    moon, PR spin machine called Tito-Theo...The only thing that is mindboggling is that I think Theo has only hinted to Tito that he must play his signees and big-ticket players (high salary) guys no matter what and no matter the situation (jenks, crawford) and he can do what he likes with the low salary players.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Harness, do you really believe that Francona, after 7 plus years of this nonsense, will alter his approach?? He is what he is, which is very fortunate to be manager of a team that has been able to overcome his foolishness for 7 plus years and counting.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Bosox1941, that last one is a classic.  Basically, you're saying Francona has been lucky--for seven years.  Napoleon used to say he wanted generals who were lucky.  Maybe Theo is thinking the same thing. 

    Taking Wake out in the 6th inning was not a spur of the moment thing, but carefully thought out.  Unfortunately, Jenks couldn't do his part.  But I feel very confident in saying that, if Francona had left Wakefield in and the Mariners had scored a couple runs off of him, you would be on here saying, "why did he leave Wakefield in when it was obvious he had run out of gas (roughly defined as 76 pitches)?"
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamaicaPlain67. Show JamaicaPlain67's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    You've hit the nail on the head Max. I remember Law saying one day that he waits for the smoke to clear before deciding if Theo made a good trade or not. That way he could always be right. The Tito bashers employ the same act, "Heads I win, tails you lose". It is a perfect strategy and that is why trolls use it all of the time. Childs play.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    moonslav, I'm a little surprised at your last post.  Can you be more specific about this year's lineups?

    -Ortiz is hitting lefties well.
    -Crawford is now 8th in the order.
    -Cameron and McDonald have been getting starts against lefties and Drew has usually been sitting.

    I'm not sure what more you're expecting Tito to do.  Are you talking about shuffling lineups every game based on numbers vs. the opposing starter?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    moonslav, I'm a little surprised at your last post.  Can you be more specific about this year's lineups?

    -Ortiz is hitting lefties well.

    I'm happy Papi is batting well vs LHPs this year. I think he should bat 3rd vs RHPs and 4th vs LHPs until AGon gets his power back.

    He still had AGon up 3rd. He should not be there vs LHPs for sure. Vs lefties. Recently, Tito usually had this against lefties:
    1) L Ells
    2) R Pedey
    3) AGon
    4) Youk
    5) Papi

    That's 3 lefties out 5 and Pedey has not done well vs lefties for 2 years.


    -Crawford is now 8th in the order.

    It took too long and he should bat 9th in front of Ellsbury.

    -Cameron and McDonald have been getting starts against lefties and Drew has usually been sitting.

    Not enough starts and usually only one at a time.

    I'm not sure what more you're expecting Tito to do.  Are you talking about shuffling lineups every game based on numbers vs. the opposing starter?

    No, I have discussed my choice of line-ups several times already, but I would adjut it at times if players are doind poorly or well.

    Assuming everyone starts hitting to their norm, this would be reasonable line-up that minimizes juggling. It is not my chosen line-up, but raher one that I think Tito could try.

    vs RHPs:
    1) L Craw
    2) R Pedey
    3) L AGon (Papi until AGon regains his power stroke)
    4) R Youk
    5) L Papi
    6) L Drew
    7) S Salty
    8) R Scutty
    9) L Ellsbury

    vs LHPs
    1) Ellsbury
    2) Pedey
    3) Youk
    4) Papi (until AGon regains)
    5) Cameron (to 6 when AGon regains)
    6) AGon (see 4/5 slots)
    7) Lowrie
    8) VTek
    9) Craw/DMac

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    I don't agree Moon.
    AGONE's been making solid contact no matter who's pitching. The dingers will come. The important thing is to maintain the flow of the line-up. Thus, OBP becomes a critical factor.

    I'd drop Papi to 6th vs. southpaws, but keep AGONE 3rd. I think Lowrie should hit in front of Papi vs. lefties. In fact, hitting Lowrie lead-off also has merit.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    I don't agree Moon.
    AGONE's been making solid contact no matter who's pitching. The dingers will come. The important thing is to maintain the flow of the line-up.

    Flow Shmoh. It's the oldest paradigm that has no merit.

    Thus, OBP becomes a critical factor.

    I'd drop Papi to 6th vs. southpaws, but keep AGONE 3rd.

    Not just yet. Papi is doing very well vs LHPs. Will he continue to do so? Who knows. I'll eat crow if he does (and be happy to do it), but until he does, he should bat 3-5 vs both armed pitchers.

    I think Lowrie should hit in front of Papi vs. lefties. In fact, hitting Lowrie lead-off also has merit.

    Maybe earlier, but Jed has not been doing well the last few games.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    You don't think it's important to keep the flow of the line-up moving?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Ortiz would have had his bags packed in June 2010 if it were up to me - and I would have been wrong as he hath proven his capabilities are still MLB worthy.

    Its okay to be wrong especially if its for the best.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Try teaching that wisdom to Softlaw.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from glumandrew. Show glumandrew's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    In Response to Re: Why remove Wake?:
    Ortiz would have had his bags packed in June 2010 if it were up to me - and I would have been wrong as he hath proven his capabilities are still MLB worthy. Its okay to be wrong especially if its for the best.
    Posted by BurritoT

    Yes but you are consistently a Debbie Downer and your heros are downers. You really need to be a bit optimistic once in awhile and your heros are the pessimists( Law, Softlaw, GM, Babe) otherwise everyone will put you onto ignore like they have with Babe (another one of your heros). You seem to enjoy entertainment at all costs instead of acting like a legitimate Sox fan. The forum is losing newbies because of the circus act which you seem to relish.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?





    Shut the hell up moron.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    You don't think it's important to keep the flow of the line-up moving?

    I don't even believe in "floe of the line-up" to begin with, so about "keeping it moving" means jack to me.

    I know many players say they like to know where they will hit from night to night, but I really don;t think it is as a big a deal as many feel it is, unless you are jerking someone with a big ego to a low slot.

    I also think the whole L-R-L paradigm is way overblown. It has some value late in games, but to put an inferior batter ahead of a better one for 3-4 PAs in the hops that it just might, once every 15-20 gams or so, make a difference on what handed relief pitcher the opposing team chooses to use for maybe 1 PA is quite frankly idiotic to me.

    I'm no saying I would have 162 line-ups a year. I would not make major line-up changes based on 10-20 PA head-to-head sample sizes. I would use a number of factors including recent trends (hot or cold), lefty/righty splits, splits vs similar type picthers, and lastly specific pitcher-batter splits. I'd have a generic template I'd work off of and I'd keep my players informed of my methodology and philosophy. There would be no surprises and lat minute shock treatments.

    My own personal template would look something like this (please do not take this as a Tito bash. I have my opinions and I do not pretend to be smarter than him or Theo.):

    vs RHPs:

    1) Crawford
    (I like some power up 1st)

    2) Pedey
    (but if he continues his struggles vs RHPs or keeps his SLG% growing I'd look at moving him to the 5 slot.)

    3) AGon
    (Youkilis is probably our best 3rd hitter vs RHP and LHPs, but it is so close vs RHPs with AGon that I think the L-R-L paradigms tips the balance here. I would try to chose a slot and stick with it and not be too swayed by head-to-head numbers to make a day-to-day change at these slots.)

    4) Youkilis
    (No doubt, he needs to bat 3rd or 4th every game he can play.)

    5) Papi
    (This guy has killed RHPs for years. He's off to a slow start this year vs righties, but I am very sure that will change)

    6) Drew
    (He's way better here tahn any righty we have vs RHPs, so I dont care about 2 lefties in a row)

    7) Salty
    (He hits RHPs way better than VTek, so I would use a platoon by L/R opponents not a personal caddy platoon.

    8)Scutaro
    (Until Lowrie proves he can hit RHPs well enough, I'll stick with the lightly better fielding SS in thse games.)

    9) Ellsbury
    (I like him up in front of Crawford)

    vs LHPs

    1) Ellsbury
    (He gets on base vs LHPs about as well as vs RHPs and way better than Crawford has during his whole career and even in his great 2010 season.)

    2) Pedroia
    (There is some merit to putting Lowrie or Cameron here since they both have ungodly OBPs vs LHPs, but Pedey does seem to be the type of guy that might NOT like to be moved. Since we stink vs LHPs, there is a strong case to be made to have Pedey bat 5th or 6th.)

    3) Youkilis
    (I don't care about 2 righties in a row. He is our best hitter vs lefties: this is a slam-dunk choice slotfor Youk.)

    4) AGon
    (He has shown he can hit lefties well recently, so I go with him here, even though Cam and lowrie have better numbers.... see, I am not all about numbers and splits.)

    5) Cameron -RF
    (Over.400 OBP vs LHPs for 3 straight years and has some power.)

    6) Papi
    (If he starts regressing back to 2008-2010 form vs selected LH'd starters, I'd move him down to 7th or rest him and use Youk at DH and Jed at 3B, so youk can get rest without sitting out on offense.)

    7) Lowrie SS
    (This guy rocks LHPs. He plays until he shows he isn't what we think he is.)

    8) VTek
    (Has been over .800 vs LHPs or the last 3 years. Crawford my be better, even vs LHPs, here, but I want Crawford and Ellsbury back-to-back. That's about as close to "flow" as I can get.)

    9) Crawford/DMac
    (If Crawford stays at about .700 vs LHPs, DMac should play more. I suspect that will be the case, since Crawford has shown no signs of impoving aginst LHPs. His 2010 numbers were below his career numbers vs LHPs.)
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    I pretty much agree with those line-ups. Cam 5th only if he's swinging as good bat.
    You may not buy into "keeping the line moving" philosophy, but UR line-ups say otherwise.

    Hitting continuity depends on the very criteria you spoke of: Current form/match-ups, etc. Obviously, hitters with higher OBP create more opportunities. That's what line-up flow is all about.

    Otherwise, the sequence becomes irrelevant, beyond the top of the line-up getting an extra at-bat. It's all about %'s on paper. Beyond that, it's in-game intangibles - like momentum swing.

    One thing: I don't like the idea of cold table-setters. If Scut or Lowrie are seeing the ball well, I'd take their OBP over the speed element. It's all about creating opportunities. Speed can do that anywhere in the line-up.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamaicaPlain67. Show JamaicaPlain67's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Have you folks watched the game tonight? Just curious. Guess that you will watch it later.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    I pretty much agree with those line-ups. Cam 5th only if he's swinging as good bat.
    You may not buy into "keeping the line moving" philosophy, but UR line-ups say otherwise.

    Hitting continuity depends on the very criteria you spoke of: Current form/match-ups, etc. Obviously, hitters with higher OBP create more opportunities. That's what line-up flow is all about.

    Otherwise, the sequence becomes irrelevant, beyond the top of the line-up getting an extra at-bat. It's all about %'s on paper. Beyond that, it's in-game intangibles - like momentum swing.

    One thing: I don't like the idea of cold table-setters. If Scut or Lowrie are seeing the ball well, I'd take their OBP over the speed element. It's all about creating opportunities. Speed can do that anywhere in the line-up.

    I thought you meant a "flow" from game to game by keeping the line-up more or less the same.

    Cue softy to tell us what "flow" means.

    If by flow you mean:

    1) Best OBP w power guy up 3rd.
    2) Best power guy up 4th (if he not up 3rd)
    3) Best OBP guys 1 and 2 (speed is the tie-breaker)
    4) 5-9 slots should be more or less in order by a player's OPS, but with OBP higher rated than Slg%.

    I don't think a slow guy in front of a fast guy really matters more than maybe 5 times a year. The OBP and hitting ability should be way more important.

    I had Crawford up 9th vs LHPs more because he stinks vs lefties than because of the Crawbury effect.  I think you see the matching of baserunners as high flow.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Have you folks watched the game tonight? Just curious. Guess that you will watch it later.

    I like to play back the game about an hour into the game. I fast forward the pregame, commercials and after foul balls and pitching changes, usually end up watching the last inning or so "live". I save about an hour this way for doing things around the house.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    In Response to Re: Why remove Wake?:
    Have you folks watched the game tonight? Just curious. Guess that you will watch it later.
    Posted by JamaicaPlain67


    I can actually multi-task. You know, watch the game, kick Softlaw's can and chew gum. Then I watch the replay later, cutting out the BS.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why remove Wake?

    Crawbury was alive tonight, Moon.
    I doubt anybody beyond this tandem scores the 2nd/3rd runs.
    Then AGONE loses one for the game winner.

    This exemplifies this multi-dimensional team. And when they have both power/speed elements going on, solid starting pitching and a good bridge to Paps,it's easy to see why many picked Boston to play in the fall classic.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share