Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Sure, why would you want a reasonably priced 26 year old catcher who put up a .450 SLG?

    Many have already said this, but it's a known fact that many catchers bloom later in their careers than most players. A 26 year old catcher is the equivalent of a 23 or 24 year old corner fielder...anyone giving up on a 23 year old corner guy with power?

    He's not perfect, but he has the right physical makeup, and a great attitude, and that means he has upside. Power, switch hitting, some nice clutch moments this year...it's a very strong catching package. He needs to make more consistent contact, and he needs a better approach at the plate, but that can come with polish.

    Plus, many people are citing his overall numbers, while overlooking that Salty had a major late season drop in production...think maybe he was worn down in his first full season?

    He's earned at least another year, if not more...worse comes to worse, he goes to the bench and you give someone else a shot. There's no reason to dump him, though.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Exactly how many top catchers have been traded in the history of baseball?  Not free agents (Carter), not prospects (Varitek), not firesales (Rick Ferrell)....but top catchers, in or around their prime?

    Is the number zero?  I can't think of any, perhaps I've forgotten some.  Why is that?  Is it because top catchers are hard to come by, and once a team has one they keep them as long as possible?

    Nope, that's not it.  It's because GMs like Theo are too stupid, cheap and timid to go get an all star catcher.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Oops!  After that rant, I thought I'd fact check...Carter WAS traded....and at 30+ not THAT old, but still no spring chicken.

    May I plead the exception proves the rule?  What other top, prime-ish catchers have been traded?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    The Red Sox should have kept Victor Martinez, instead of signing Carl Crawford. Plenty of people said that at the time too, so this is not a case of hindsight being 20/20. I can understand swapping one Adrian (Beltre) for the other (Gonzalez) and shifting Youkilis across the diamond. Letting Martinez go was an unecessary mistake. It's not as though the Tigers paid him well over market value.

    Martinez in 2011: .330 AVG, 12 HR, 103 RBI, .380 OBA.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    In Response to Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox should have kept Victor Martinez, instead of signing Carl Crawford. Plenty of people said that at the time too, so this is not a case of hindsight being 20/20. I can understand swapping one Adrian (Beltre) for the other (Gonzalez) and shifting Youkilis across the diamond. Letting Martinez go was an unecessary mistake. It's not as though the Tigers paid him well over market value. Martinez in 2011: .330 AVG, 12 HR, 103 RBI, .380 OBA.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    All 12 HRs and 90 of the RBIs came as a DH.  What would Martinez's role have been, and how would it have affected the production we got from Papi?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    In Response to Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox should have kept Victor Martinez, instead of signing Carl Crawford. Plenty of people said that at the time too, so this is not a case of hindsight being 20/20. I can understand swapping one Adrian (Beltre) for the other (Gonzalez) and shifting Youkilis across the diamond. Letting Martinez go was an unecessary mistake. It's not as though the Tigers paid him well over market value. Martinez in 2011: .330 AVG, 12 HR, 103 RBI, .380 OBA.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]


    That means the club would have had to rely on Cam or Kalish for LF. Or how about Nava? In addition, VMART was lousy with the staff last year, excluding Buch.
    W/O Buch for most of 2011, and with Tek getting a lesser role as he did in 2010,
    the pitching would have been worse off with a 2011 VMART. 

    He hits better when not having to deal with the responsibilities as a catcher...and he's a DH for a reason.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Didn't he catch the majority of games in Cleveland? Wasn't he an exceptional player while in Cleveland?  He seems to like to catch, certainly he doesn't hate it.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from drpjn. Show drpjn's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?


    What the hell, bring back Kevin Cash.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    In Response to Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?:
    [QUOTE]Didn't he catch the majority of games in Cleveland? Wasn't he an exceptional player while in Cleveland?  He seems to like to catch, certainly he doesn't hate it.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    He does like to catch. Very much. He said so more than once.
    I like to do a lot of things. That doesn't mean I'm gonna do them all well.

    He said he wanted to be signed as a catcher. Yet he signed as a DH - largely because there was so market for him as a catcher. And a .300 hitter with power is a steal as a catcher.

    That should tell you sonething.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from walterjohnson07. Show walterjohnson07's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Unless a good trade can be made for a stronger catcher, keep Salty as the starter with Lavarnway as the backup.  Retain Gary Tuck as instructor for both and jettison 'Tek.  His time has come.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    I have seen enough of both Salty and Lavarnway to say our best option going forward is Lavarnway, no quesiton. With all the changes at the leadership level, it is going to be bridge year or two, best time to give this kid enough experience at major league level. If we can sign Molina we should let Varitek go, I do not mind having Varitek around as back up. He is not too bad with limited playing time. Add Salty to the lackey club in a package to ship somewhere we dont get to see them often.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from therimrattler. Show therimrattler's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Saltalamacchia has far more upside and potential than Varitek at this point as we all look forward to 2012.  He has already proven to be better defensively and offensively as well.  He is 14 years younger and his contract is still smaller, too.

    I swear that he will be a much better hitter when he finally learns to understand and build a better mental approach to hitting.  If the hitting coach needs some assistance in helping this guy, I will make myself available.

    The fact that he swings at a slider below his knees and inside off the plate  SOOOOO many times when the count is 0-0 is maddening!!!!!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    maybe the better question is would it be smarter to let Ortiz go (and Tek) and open up the DH spot for Lavarnway and Youkilis. Go out and get a veteran catcher and go out and get a 3b or turn Aviles into a fulltime guy, or do something about 3b and C because Salty's defensive lapses cost Sox dearly and Youkilis is likely no longer capable of being a defensive player as his body is breaking down.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    They will bring him back because he had a decent season and his behind the plate game calling was improving.  I think if he teams with Lavarnway it will make a nice tandem of young inexpensive backstops.  Salty's power numbers were good, he needs to work on his plate disipline and shorten up that long swing of his.

    Lavarnway will see action against lefties, which should help Salty's numbers seeing he struggles from the right side and his power is mostly from the left side.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Outside the Box Thinking. Show Outside the Box Thinking's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Varitek's biggest value is as a leader......

    Wouldn't he make the ideal new Manager? Surrounded with a solid group of experienced coaches (which are there) he could be the ideal candidate.

    What makes Alomar, Martinez or Hale better candidates?

    Varitek has been the real leader of this team for 10 years and this seems to be at least worthy of consideration....even those (like me) that want him back, want him for the effect he has on others on the team rather than his skills ..... 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Even in the minors, Lavarnway did not catch every day - he would catch a day, DH a day, catch a day, DH a day.  To expect him to come in and catch 120 games at the MLB level in 2012 is ridiculous.  A 50/50 split, with Lavarnway getting the start against all lefties, plus 20% of the righties would be ideal.  The toll catching takes on your legs can show up in your bat by the end of the year. 

    With a tandem this young, though, I do want as much catching experience on the bench as possible - Tony Pena would be the perfect manager for this scenario.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Read Silverman's article in the Herald. 

    Varitek should not be back:

    1. Batted .077 in September
    2. Batted .176 over 2nd half.
    3. Threw out 14% of runners.
    4. What did he do about the clubhouse issues and did we hear from him?
    5. He's 40 years old.

    No reasons.

    ADG, what Silverman neglects to tell us is this:

    Salty should not be back:
    1. Batted .162 in September.
    2. Batted .217 over the second half.
    3. Couldn't stop a ball in the dirt if his life depended on it.
    4. What did he do about the clubhouse issues?
    5. The team was 4-14 in his games in Sept.
    6. The pitchers had a 1.05 higher ERA when he caught them. Even if you take away Beckett and Wakefield, they still did worse with him.
    7. He has trade value: VTek does not.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

     I just don't see the fascination with Saltalamacchia. Is it the .235 average that people love? The .288 OBA? The .450 SLG? The almost 5-to-1 K/BB ratio? The only good offensive number Saltalamacchia put up was in the homerun column and I'm confident that Lavarnway could match, if not exceed Saltalamacchia's 16 homeruns in 358 at-bats. Defensively, Saltalamacchia wasn't anything special either.

    In Salty's defense, only 9 catchers in MLB had more PAs and a higher OPS than Salty. People keep expecting great hitting from the catcher position, and while a handful of teams get it each year, it's not an easy thing to obtain.

    Salty's offense should not be criticized too harshly in this context,  nor should VTek's, who only had 15 MLB catchers with more PAs and a higher OPS than his.

    As a team, our catchers had the 10th best MLB OPs (just .013 from 6th best). Half the league is under .691 at their catching position, and 4 teams, including the Rays and Angels are under .611!

    We had the 5th best MLB catcher slg% at .439 (half the teams are under .385 and 5 teams are under .333.) 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Even in the minors, Lavarnway did not catch every day - he would catch a day, DH a day, catch a day, DH a day.  To expect him to come in and catch 120 games at the MLB level in 2012 is ridiculous.  A 50/50 split, with Lavarnway getting the start against all lefties, plus 20% of the righties would be ideal.  The toll catching takes on your legs can show up in your bat by the end of the year. 

    The lefty-righty thing is one argument against using Lava/VTek over Lava/Salty. V'Tek and Lava both hit lefties way better than righties, but if you use VTek exclusively with Beckett, that takes away from the L-R thing.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    ADG, what Silverman neglects to tell us is this:

    Salty should not be back:

    Salty is young in his 20's. Varitek is old and in his 40's. Hernandez should be signed and Salty and Lavarnway should battle for backup, with Lavarnway starting in AAA if all else is equal.

    No one buys the Varitek or Wastefield nonsense, stooge.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    In Response to Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?:
    [QUOTE]Hernandez Salty and Lavarnway battle it out in spring and summer, with all equal starting Lavarway in AAA. Rid the team of a parasite named Varitek, who has been washed up for years and can't even finish a season without becoming an auto-out. Wastefield and Varitek most certainly cost the Red Sox the post season as they were not fit to be on the roster over final month or two, even if you pretend they were worthy of early season spot.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    More baseless propaganda. It was a total team failure. Don't try to shoe horn the blame on two payers that you don't like just to fit your weak propaganda. And remember, there are no excuses.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    I dont like 40 plus year old players who have problems standing up straight and are pitiful in performance. Wastefield over Aceves in early April, Wastefield over Aceves as a starter in last half, and Varitek over Hernandez or even Lavarway in last month or two most certainly cost the team at least 2 or 3 games.

    It isn't an excuse, it is an ineptstein mistake for which he needs to be discarded.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Moonslav correctly cites that MLB catchers - esp. the last few years - are simply offensive black holes on rosters.  I don't have the energy to comb the internet for the perfect chart, but the info is out there in droves.

    Which means that either you latch on to a catcher who outperforms offensively (VMart when catching, Mauer, etc., let's call them "VMartauer" as a singular) and thank your lucky stars, or you look for situational pieces.

    In the absence of a VMartauer, here's the priorities:
    * Work with pitching staff
    * Positional defense
    * Team offense contribution (e.g., can bunt or at least make contact)
    * clubhouse presence / role
    * price (of course this a function of the above)

    The reality these days, with MLB catching, is that the position can certainly help you get to the WS offensively, but rarely will it take you OUT of the running offensively.

    So then you look for defense and working with pitchers.

    Tek apparently is "the pitcher whisperer," but his defense is terrible.  Saltalamacchia is unimpressive in either category, but above-average offensively.

    The two together are -- ready? -- average.  Which, given the other problems on the team (starting depth, no RF which is a position from which you want offense, bullpen depth) means it's not a huge concern. 

    Lavarnway is a future DH/1B/15-20-games-year catcher, UNLESS some franchise grabs him and tries to make a huge project out of him.  Burly power hitters don't have bodies that react well to catching 130 games.  Ignoring this reality is ... well, ignorant.

    If the RS could get a catcher with either much better defense, or an above-avg. offensive contributor who didn't have poor D, they'd be advised to make the move.

    The problem is that the bidding for such a creature will be intense - and when you look at the team issues, it's not worth it.

    Salty will get another year, and Lavarnway will have his role and eventual positional reality sharpened.  Swihart will already feel pressure, and we can see what he promises in the future.

    Joe Mauer is not walking through that door.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    In Response to Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?:
    [QUOTE]Moonslav correctly cites that MLB catchers -  Burly power hitters don't have bodies that react well to catching 130 games.  Ignoring this reality is ... well, ignorant. If the RS could get a catcher with either much better defense, or an above-avg. offensive contributor who didn't have poor D, they'd be advised to make the move. The problem is that the bidding for such a creature will be intense - and when you look at the team issues, it's not worth it. Salty will get another year, and Lavarnway will have his role and eventual positional reality sharpened.  Swihart will already feel pressure, and we can see what he promises in the future. Joe Mauer is not walking through that door.
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]

    Matt Wieters  6'5"  225 lbs 
    Lavarnway 6'4" 225

    Wieters 2011  139 games   Aug .951    Sep  .867
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Why should Saltalamacchia come back?

    Burly power hitters don't have bodies that react well to catching 130 games. Ignoring this reality is ... well, ignorant.

    Gary Carter was 6 feet 2 and 215 pounds. You are both ignoring reality and...well, ignorant. 

    Most catcher prospects never end up with long MLB careers at catcher. So Lavarnway not making it does not validate your ignorance. We'll see, but Varitek is washed up.

    Red Sox need to sign Hernandez to short term contract and have Salty and Lavarnway battle for backup. All else equal, start Lavarnway in AAA.

    Varitek needs to be told he will not be offered any MLB contract. Ditto, Wastefield.  
     

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