Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Of course, as the dust still settles from the horrific september collapse, it is difficult to put in perspective the Red Sox story in the macro, and think of how the failures of 2011 make for a better story than if there had been success.  But, I think it is worth examining:

    In March of 2011, there was hardly a soul with any connection to baseball who weren't singing the praises of the mighty Red Sox.  They were already stocked, and had just went out and plundered small market San Diego for the services of the mighty Adrian Gonzalez and shocked the world by outbidding ... I'm not sure who ... by zillions of dollars for the service of possibly the greatest cherry-on-the-sundae in the game ever.  World series locks on the tips of all tongues.

    But lets face it, if they had won, it would have been a just a wee bit hollow.  2009 Yankees hollow.  Great, they went out and bought the championship.  Everyone and their mothers expected the Sox to win it all, or at least play against the Phillies for all the marbles. And if they did it, well ... yawn ...

    And to boot, the days of the lovable Red Sox redemption ended in October 2007.  From that time on, the Sox are the overdog.  Once loved for their baseball story, now hated by pretty much all except the fiercely loyal, but still amazingly critical, Red Sox Nation.  I will go so far as to say that I think the Red Sox, by March 2011, had supplanted the Yankees as Most-Hated franchise in baseball.

    But, now, there is a shift in the dramatic narrative.  September 2011 erases any of the entitled air that surrounds the Sox.  Now, the future is about ...

    REDEMPTION.

    Seriously, much more interesting. *

    * See Rocky III:  It took the champ getting his butt handed to him by Clubber Lang and his trainer's death to make Mr. Balboa a protagonist worth rooting for again.  

    This is a club that must be redeemed.  From the inside, there is, for the first time since 2004, desparation in the proceedings, as the franchise hangs in the balance.  From the outside, this chock-full-of-all-star-studs suddenly has much to prove.  And, ironically, though they are at this moment supposedly unlikable, it will make them much more likable again.  

    I am not trying to gloss over what has happened.  

    But, I am excited for 2012.  If you ask me, 2011 exorcises some demons that have been growing since 2007.  

    If you ask me, 2011 makes for a tremendously exciting 2012.

    Shakespeare, as usual, sums it up best in the voice of the wayward Prince Hal, who is shortly to become the mighty Henry V:

    If all the year were playing holidays,
    To sport would be as tedious as to work;
    But when they seldom come, they wish'd for come,
    And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents.
    So, when this loose behavior I throw off
    And pay the debt I never promised,
    By how much better than my word I am,
    By so much shall I falsify men's hopes;
    And like bright metal on a sullen ground,
    My reformation, glittering o'er my fault,
    Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes
    Than that which hath no foil to set it off.
    I'll so offend, to make offence a skill;
    Redeeming time when men think least I will.




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    That's the spirit.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    Of course, as the dust still settles from the horrific september collapse, it is difficult to put in perspective the Red Sox story in the macro, and think of how the failures of 2011 make for a better story than if there had been success.  But, I think it is worth examining: In March of 2011, there was hardly a soul with any connection to baseball who weren't singing the praises of the mighty Red Sox.  They were already stocked, and had just went out and plundered small market San Diego for the services of the mighty Adrian Gonzalez and shocked the world by outbidding ... I'm not sure who ... by zillions of dollars for the service of possibly the greatest cherry-on-the-sundae in the game ever.  World series locks on the tips of all tongues. But lets face it, if they had won, it would have been a just a wee bit hollow.  2009 Yankees hollow.  Great, they went out and bought the championship.  Everyone and their mothers expected the Sox to win it all, or at least play against the Phillies for all the marbles. And if they did it, well ... yawn ... And to boot, the days of the lovable Red Sox redemption ended in October 2007.  From that time on, the Sox are the overdog.  Once loved for their baseball story, now hated by pretty much all except the fiercely loyal, but still amazingly critical, Red Sox Nation.  I will go so far as to say that I think the Red Sox, by March 2011, had supplanted the Yankees as Most-Hated franchise in baseball. But, now, there is a shift in the dramatic narrative.  September 2011 erases any of the entitled air that surrounds the Sox.  Now, the future is about ... REDEMPTION. Seriously, much more interesting. * * See Rocky III:  It took the champ getting his butt handed to him by Clubber Lang and his trainer's death to make Mr. Balboa a protagonist worth rooting for again.   This is a club that must be redeemed.  From the inside, there is, for the first time since 2004, desparation in the proceedings, as the franchise hangs in the balance.  From the outside, this chock-full-of-all-star-studs suddenly has much to prove.  And, ironically, though they are at this moment supposedly unlikable, it will make them much more likable again.   I am not trying to gloss over what has happened.   But, I am excited for 2012.  If you ask me, 2011 exorcises some demons that have been growing since 2007.   If you ask me, 2011 makes for a tremendously exciting 2012. Shakespeare, as usual, sums it up best in the voice of the wayward Prince Hal, who is shortly to become the mighty Henry V: If all the year were playing holidays, To sport would be as tedious as to work; But when they seldom come, they wish'd for come, And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents. So, when this loose behavior I throw off And pay the debt I never promised, By how much better than my word I am, By so much shall I falsify men's hopes; And like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glittering o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I'll so offend, to make offence a skill; Redeeming time when men think least I will.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Great post.

    I compare this meltdown to 1974, and look what happened in 1975. Maybe history will repeat itself (only this time the Sox won't lose a key hitter and September and instead go on to win the W.S.).
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    In Response to Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012 : Great post. I compare this meltdown to 1974, and look what happened in 1975. Maybe history will repeat itself (only this time the Sox won't lose a key hitter and September and instead go on to win the W.S.).
    Posted by royf19


    Great comparison Roy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    As long as the Red Sox don't appear on the cover of Sports illustrated again.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012 : Great comparison Roy.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus



    Solid post, Space. 2003 made 2004 that much more special. for all the glory and promise the 2011 season held, in the end it only added to the despair and devastation. Once a manager is in place and the 2012 roster is set, hope will once again spring eternal. we'll go back, we always do.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Halleliejah, a voice of reason amongst the storm!

    I concur with Space here, that the 2012 Red Sox, to a man, are going to be motivated not only to undo their wrongs of 2011 but to prove that they are as good as the experts predicted they would be.

    That motivation, with a new manager they'll be looking to impress, screams that these guys will want to win as many games as they can.

    This means bringing back all free agents except Wakefield and Varitek and giving it a go with the same cast of bad apples:

    CF - Ellbury
    2B - Pedroia
    1B - AGon
    3B - Youk
    DH - Ortiz
    RF - New guy (RHH) - Kalish/Reddick (only one the other in the minors
    LF - Crawford
    SS - Scutaro
    C - Salt/Lavarnway

    Pitchers:
    SP Beckett
    SP Lester
    SP Buchholz (when healthy will be huge)
    SP Bedard (or free agent/traded player)
    SP Lackey (Or free agent/traded player)

    CL Papelbon
    RP Bard
    RP Aceves
    RP Albers
    RP Wheeler
    RP Morales
    RP Miller or someone else

    Bench:
    U Lowrie
    C Lavernway/Salt
    IF/OF Veteran RHH
    IF/OF Veteran LHH

    OK guys give 'em heck!



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    And what! Beckett , Lackey and Lester are going to suddenly be good teammates? Ortiz and AGon will run out grounders? I dont think so. I wouldnt want to watch another season like that no matter how many games they win. I hated watching Ortiz and AG trot down to first even when we were winning.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from westcoastsox9. Show westcoastsox9's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    And what! Beckett , Lackey and Lester are going to suddenly be good teammates? Ortiz and AGon will run out grounders? I dont think so. I wouldnt want to watch another season like that no matter how many games they win. I hated watching Ortiz and AG trot down to first even when we were winning.
    Posted by maxnsl


    No one is going to put a gun to your head and make you be a Sox fan.  I hear the Houston Astros run out all their grounders, go root for them!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    A voice of reason amongst the drinking in the dugout by the meat of your pitching staff....PINK CLOUDING PINK HATS!!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    This fiasco won't be cured in a short space of time.     New faces will help but in truth, damage has been done and there's much repairing to do.    Players will be reminded throughout the 2012 season about September from fans and media from Boston and other cities with the first losing streak.      A new GM and field manager can't be expected to perform miracles.

    More than anything, patience is required.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    I embrace 2011, it really takes me back to the good old days, where the Red Sox would no doubt find catasprophic ways to lose.  We forgot who we were there for a few years, we're back!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    What a bunch of cra.. Do you people really think these players care what the fans think of them????? if they did, sept would have never happened..

    I'll tell you one thing, if the RS bring back the same team it had in 2011 they will finish in third play or worse. 

    I for one don't think henry will let that happen! there will be changes, big changes, and rightfully so! 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    What a bunch of cra.. Do you people really think these players care what the fans think of them????? if they did, sept would have never happened..

    I'll tell you one thing, if the RS bring back the same team it had in 2011 they will finish in third play or worse. 

    I for one don't think henry will let that happen! there will be changes, big changes, and rightfully so! 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012 : No one is going to put a gun to your head and make you be a Sox fan.  I hear the Houston Astros run out all their grounders, go root for them!
    Posted by westcoastsox9
    Nice reply! Just because i want to see a team hustle and care about the game doesnt mean i dont want to watch the Sox. I want to see them play the game right. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannimota. Show mannimota's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Remember the stages of grief/loss!  Lester (and now Tek, apparently) are great examples of the first stage: Denial.  Lester is minimizing the players' responsibility and yet more or less admits that Francoma didn't hold them accountable.  Sure, the team just "stunk" for an entire month.  It happens, right?  Lester and the whole lot can rationalized the collapse all they want, but wait a few months from now when the reality sinks in: They were eating fried chicken and drinking beer while the ship was going down.  That's when these entitled, exorbitantly paid slackers might begin to think about the need for redemption.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    Of course, as the dust still settles from the horrific september collapse, it is difficult to put in perspective the Red Sox story in the macro, and think of how the failures of 2011 make for a better story than if there had been success.  But, I think it is worth examining: In March of 2011, there was hardly a soul with any connection to baseball who weren't singing the praises of the mighty Red Sox.  They were already stocked, and had just went out and plundered small market San Diego for the services of the mighty Adrian Gonzalez and shocked the world by outbidding ... I'm not sure who ... by zillions of dollars for the service of possibly the greatest cherry-on-the-sundae in the game ever.  World series locks on the tips of all tongues. But lets face it, if they had won, it would have been a just a wee bit hollow.  2009 Yankees hollow.  Great, they went out and bought the championship.  Everyone and their mothers expected the Sox to win it all, or at least play against the Phillies for all the marbles. And if they did it, well ... yawn ... And to boot, the days of the lovable Red Sox redemption ended in October 2007.  From that time on, the Sox are the overdog.  Once loved for their baseball story, now hated by pretty much all except the fiercely loyal, but still amazingly critical, Red Sox Nation.  I will go so far as to say that I think the Red Sox, by March 2011, had supplanted the Yankees as Most-Hated franchise in baseball. But, now, there is a shift in the dramatic narrative.  September 2011 erases any of the entitled air that surrounds the Sox.  Now, the future is about ... REDEMPTION. Seriously, much more interesting. * * See Rocky III:  It took the champ getting his butt handed to him by Clubber Lang and his trainer's death to make Mr. Balboa a protagonist worth rooting for again.   This is a club that must be redeemed.  From the inside, there is, for the first time since 2004, desparation in the proceedings, as the franchise hangs in the balance.  From the outside, this chock-full-of-all-star-studs suddenly has much to prove.  And, ironically, though they are at this moment supposedly unlikable, it will make them much more likable again.   I am not trying to gloss over what has happened.   But, I am excited for 2012.  If you ask me, 2011 exorcises some demons that have been growing since 2007.   If you ask me, 2011 makes for a tremendously exciting 2012. Shakespeare, as usual, sums it up best in the voice of the wayward Prince Hal, who is shortly to become the mighty Henry V: If all the year were playing holidays, To sport would be as tedious as to work; But when they seldom come, they wish'd for come, And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents. So, when this loose behavior I throw off And pay the debt I never promised, By how much better than my word I am, By so much shall I falsify men's hopes; And like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glittering o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I'll so offend, to make offence a skill; Redeeming time when men think least I will.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I like UR spirit, Space. But the truth is, Shakespeare is dead, and Rocky3 or 300 are myths. There's a lot of work ahead and challenges facing this FO. Whether or not they are up to the task remain to be seen.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    Remember the stages of grief/loss!  Lester (and now Tek, apparently) are great examples of the first stage: Denial.  Lester is minimizing the players' responsibility and yet more or less admits that Francoma didn't hold them accountable.  Sure, the team just "stunk" for an entire month.  It happens, right?  Lester and the whole lot can rationalized the collapse all they want, but wait a few months from now when the reality sinks in: They were eating fried chicken and drinking beer while the ship was going down.  That's when these entitled, exorbitantly paid slackers might begin to think about the need for redemption.  
    Posted by mannimota


    Thanks for your 69 posts in five years, this being one of them, of course. lol
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Well said. Great post, Space.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Go get 'em spaceman. I concur 100%.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    In Response to Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012:
    Of course, as the dust still settles from the horrific september collapse, it is difficult to put in perspective the Red Sox story in the macro, and think of how the failures of 2011 make for a better story than if there had been success.  But, I think it is worth examining: In March of 2011, there was hardly a soul with any connection to baseball who weren't singing the praises of the mighty Red Sox.  They were already stocked, and had just went out and plundered small market San Diego for the services of the mighty Adrian Gonzalez and shocked the world by outbidding ... I'm not sure who ... by zillions of dollars for the service of possibly the greatest cherry-on-the-sundae in the game ever.  World series locks on the tips of all tongues. But lets face it, if they had won, it would have been a just a wee bit hollow.  2009 Yankees hollow.  Great, they went out and bought the championship.  Everyone and their mothers expected the Sox to win it all, or at least play against the Phillies for all the marbles. And if they did it, well ... yawn ... And to boot, the days of the lovable Red Sox redemption ended in October 2007.  From that time on, the Sox are the overdog.  Once loved for their baseball story, now hated by pretty much all except the fiercely loyal, but still amazingly critical, Red Sox Nation.  I will go so far as to say that I think the Red Sox, by March 2011, had supplanted the Yankees as Most-Hated franchise in baseball. But, now, there is a shift in the dramatic narrative.  September 2011 erases any of the entitled air that surrounds the Sox.  Now, the future is about ... REDEMPTION. Seriously, much more interesting. * * See Rocky III:  It took the champ getting his butt handed to him by Clubber Lang and his trainer's death to make Mr. Balboa a protagonist worth rooting for again.   This is a club that must be redeemed.  From the inside, there is, for the first time since 2004, desparation in the proceedings, as the franchise hangs in the balance.  From the outside, this chock-full-of-all-star-studs suddenly has much to prove.  And, ironically, though they are at this moment supposedly unlikable, it will make them much more likable again.   I am not trying to gloss over what has happened.   But, I am excited for 2012.  If you ask me, 2011 exorcises some demons that have been growing since 2007.   If you ask me, 2011 makes for a tremendously exciting 2012. Shakespeare, as usual, sums it up best in the voice of the wayward Prince Hal, who is shortly to become the mighty Henry V: If all the year were playing holidays, To sport would be as tedious as to work; But when they seldom come, they wish'd for come, And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents. So, when this loose behavior I throw off And pay the debt I never promised, By how much better than my word I am, By so much shall I falsify men's hopes; And like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glittering o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I'll so offend, to make offence a skill; Redeeming time when men think least I will.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Very eloquent and romantic post, Space.  I hope the Glory of 2012 will not be a Glory Hole. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    " And, ironically, though they are at this moment supposedly unlikable, it will make them much more likable again. "

    Only if they take full responsibility for what happened and do it humbly which they have not done. Instead they have continued to throw Francona under the bus for trusting them with the freedom to act like men. 

    I anticipate some significant roster changes and frankly I'm looking forward to them. Since the team won't take total accountability the way to make this team likeable again is to ship some peeps out of town, and they will be gone, trust me on that. 

    Those that remain will have a good chance to win the fans back over. I'll wait and get excited once I see what kind of team we have in spring training. I expect it to look different than the roster you have projected. For the new season, we'll have a fresh start and then we'll find out what we're really made of. Like you I'm hopeful though I don't expect glory, just passionate play from the first pitch to the last, from a group of guys that have bonded and are "all in." Glory is fleeting and not promised to any player or fan.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

     
    BostonTrollSpanker,

    Yes !!!  Some very accurate observations in your post.    There is a very big difference between being forgiven, and being likeable.   
      
    Come spring, the promise of a new year, getting past 2011, and a fresh start will one way or another for most of us, lead to a lot of forgiveness.

    The benefit of being loyal Boston fans is over the years we have pretty much seen, and had to get over it all. We collectively have as much ability to get past unfortunate outcomes and forgive, as any other fans out there. And we will, again.  But this year we have a new challenge, many of us will also need to learn to like our team again.

    I think your comment about Francona "giving them the freedom to act like men"  maybe key........  IMO there is a huge difference between being a man, and actually being an adult man.   Or maybe that can be translated to suggest that: there is a huge difference being a professional major league baseball player, and actually being a professional. 

    For me that is the very place to start to rebuild for 2012....... What will professionalism mean in Boston in 2012 ??     From training, fitness, attitude, respect for team and fans, to proficiency in all aspects of the game, and whatever more may need to be considered.      Like passion!!!!

    As I watch the play offs this year I see/saw 8 teams that no matter what their  flaws, at least to me looked very professional. They all looked  like they had winning professional attitudes. While in the end they all cannot be the final winner, they all can be very likeable. They can leave their fans proud.
    That's all I am looking for in 2012  no matter who the actual team members are, no matter if they make the post season or not......... I know I am ready to do my part, forgive and try to forget.......... All I ask from those on the team in 2012 is to make me like them again.  I don't think that is an unreasonable goal.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    Atta boy, Space. You tell 'em. And with a little bit of Uncle Will to add some class! Well done!! I have rooted for Boston teams for a long time because they have generally been clean, hard working groups that deserved respect, win or lose. The RS were affected by the steroids era and the obsession to beat the Yanks, which did mean spending a lot for FA's, and I think they did lose their way in the last several years. Here's hoping that from this debacle we get a sobered FO, new GM, and new Manager who want to play (moderate--after all, it is the FA Big Money era) old school ball again. Will Shakespeare doubtless made the point several times in his works that humans learn a lot more from failure than success, so my main hope is that the RS ownership learns from this "meltdown".
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Why the failure of 2011 allows for the glory of 2012

    m
     
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