Why was Scutaro traded?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Why was Scutaro traded?

    The Sox traded their starting SS and don't really have a contingency plan in place heading into the season, so it begs the question as to why Marco was dealt.  The sox have options at SS, but all come with big question marks, can Iglesias hit over .200?  Are either Aviles or Punto really good enough defensively to be an everyday SS? 

    1. I think the prevailing thinking at the time was that Marco was dealt so the Sox could add an additional arm and still stay under the luxury tax but that has not happened, maybe it still will and maybe trading Marco was just about $$$. 

    2. The sox just had to have Clayton Mortenson.  Don't think so.

    3.  It has be rumored that Marco was the guy (or 1 of the guys) leaking things to press regarding last years clubhouse issues, so maybe the F.O. thought he should not be brought back.

    I wasn't a huge fan of Scutaro but he provided a lot more certainty at SS than any of the remaining options, so unless it was just a straight financial decision, I wonder somewhat why the move was made. 



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Why was Scutaro traded?:
    The Sox traded their starting SS and don't really have a contingency plan in place heading into the season, so it begs the question as to why Marco was dealt.  The sox have options at SS, but all come with big question marks, can Iglesias hit over .200?  Are either Aviles or Punto really good enough defensively to be an everyday SS?  1. I think the prevailing thinking at the time was that Marco was dealt so the Sox could add an additional arm and still stay under the luxury tax but that has not happened, maybe it still will and maybe trading Marco was just about $$$.  2. The sox just had to have Clayton Mortenson.  Don't think so. 3.  It has be rumored that Marco was the guy (or 1 of the guys) leaking things to press regarding last years clubhouse issues, so maybe the F.O. thought he should not be brought back. I wasn't a huge fan of Scutaro but he provided a lot more certainty at SS than any of the remaining options, so unless it was just a straight financial decision, I wonder somewhat why the move was made. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Yes, there certainly is some mystery to be untangled in the Scutaro trade.  I was of the Well-That-Frees-Up-Money-For-A-Bonafide-Starter thinkers.  Didn't happen.

    I am coming around, though, to what I think, for better or for worse, is the the FO modus operendi this off-season:  We have lots of talent in-house, some of it untapped as to its potential:  Lets tap it or go home.

    Hence the faith that Bard will turn into starter, Salty (with a boost from Shoppach) will keep improving, and, in the interest of slashing payroll, Aviles, given an everyday job will be a perfectly serviceable SS (very solid offensively and acceptable defensively, like Scutaro) until Iggy is ready.  And, even without the vet retreads they bought low on, either Miller or Doubront could make the leap to major league starter until Matsuzaka comes back.

    All risks.  But, interesting in that they are risking young (relatively). 


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In Response to Why was Scutaro traded? : Yes, there certainly is some mystery to be untangled in the Scutaro trade.  I was of the Well-That-Frees-Up-Money-For-A-Bonafide-Starter thinkers.  Didn't happen. I am coming around, though, to what I think, for better or for worse, is the the FO modus operendi this off-season:  We have lots of talent in-house, some of it untapped as to its potential:  Lets tap it or go home. Hence the faith that Bard will turn into starter, Salty (with a boost from Shoppach) will keep improving, and, in the interest of slashing payroll, Aviles, given an everyday job will be a perfectly serviceable SS (very solid offensively and acceptable defensively, like Scutaro) until Iggy is ready.  And, even without the vet retreads they bought low on, either Miller or Doubront could make the leap to major league starter until Matsuzaka comes back. All risks.  But, interesting in that they are risking young (relatively). 
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Space, Bard was on WEEI this morning with D&C talking about the transition from the bullpen to the rotation. Said he has all four pitches, which he used but most didnt notice because he usually went to his go to pitch. He's excited to be given the opportunity and feels its the right move for him. Also saw an interview with Valentine, who said he's "been blown away" by Bard's stuff. I'm feeling better and better about this as time goes on.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    Moonslav's latest tabulation of the payroll total is at $176 mil. which is a mere $2 mil. below the luxury tax limit. If they had kept Scutaro the total would be approximately $3 mil over and there would be stiff penalties next year as well as not getting a kick back on future revenue sharing funds. When the payroll totals are official we will know about the wisdom of trading Scutaro.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : Space, Bard was on WEEI this morning with D&C talking about the transition from the bullpen to the rotation. Said he has all four pitches, which he used but most didnt notice because he usually went to his go to pitch. He's excited to be given the opportunity and feels its the right move for him. Also saw an interview with Valentine, who said he's "been blown away" by Bard's stuff. I'm feeling better and better about this as time goes on.
    Posted by J-BAY


    Me too J.  In the Fear that was the How-Do-We-Recover off season of no major moves, so much attention was put on "what if Bard fails to convert".  But, the question is also "what if Bard succeeds"?  Is that not a monstrous coup, to stay in house, not overspend on a stop gap starter, and suddenly solidify the rotation, and get it younger, for the next few years?  And then, the Melancon/bailey moves look that much better.  It is Cherringtons gambit.  And, like you, I am starting to see the method to the madness.  Time will tell.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In Response to Why was Scutaro traded? : Yes, there certainly is some mystery to be untangled in the Scutaro trade.  I was of the Well-That-Frees-Up-Money-For-A-Bonafide-Starter thinkers.  Didn't happen. I am coming around, though, to what I think, for better or for worse, is the the FO modus operendi this off-season:  We have lots of talent in-house, some of it untapped as to its potential:  Lets tap it or go home. Hence the faith that Bard will turn into starter, Salty (with a boost from Shoppach) will keep improving, and, in the interest of slashing payroll, Aviles, given an everyday job will be a perfectly serviceable SS (very solid offensively and acceptable defensively, like Scutaro) until Iggy is ready.  And, even without the vet retreads they bought low on, either Miller or Doubront could make the leap to major league starter until Matsuzaka comes back. All risks.  But, interesting in that they are risking young (relatively). 
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I agree with the Aviles assessment, meaning that the Sox think they can get virtually the same production from Aviles so why not deal Scutaro and save 6 million ( I believe that was Marco's price tag).  Whether or not they can actually get that from Aviles will definitely be a determining factor in how this deal looks in hindsight.  Scutaro, for his defensive short comings, was a known commodity, even if the price was high.

    The overall direction the off-season took is interesting but I would contend it was as much out of necessity as strategy.  I think they have done a good job of filling in some positions with lower cost, younger guys but in truth that is the position that Theo left them in.  The Red Sox have well over 100 million committed to 7-8 players this year and most of those long term, so doing this minor overhaul on the cheap was the only option.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In response to "Why was Scutaro traded?":
    The Sox traded their starting SS and don't really have a contingency plan in place heading into the season, so it begs the question as to why Marco was dealt.  The sox have options at SS, but all come with big question marks, can Iglesias hit over .200?  Are either Aviles or Punto really good enough defensively to be an everyday SS?  1. I think the prevailing thinking at the time was that Marco was dealt so the Sox could add an additional arm and still stay under the luxury tax but that has not happened, maybe it still will and maybe trading Marco was just about $$$.  2. The sox just had to have Clayton Mortenson.  Don't think so. 3.  It has be rumored that Marco was the guy (or 1 of the guys) leaking things to press regarding last years clubhouse issues, so maybe the F.O. thought he should not be brought back. I wasn't a huge fan of Scutaro but he provided a lot more certainty at SS than any of the remaining options, so unless it was just a straight financial decision, I wonder somewhat why the move was made.  Posted by Thesemenarecowards
    It may have just been a case where the Front Office said, "Is Marco Scutaro at 37 really that much better than Mike Aviles?" Maybe they figured Iglesias should be given more of an opportunity and 6 million dollars in payroll flexibility is nothing to sneeze at, either. There are the whispers about Scutaro being the leak and it's becoming more obvious every day that they really want Iglesias to win the job...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    It was a salary dump and the last chance to get something in return for an aging utility infielder.

    We are not talking about Nomar in his prime here. The guy was not the answer to the shortstop revolving door, just a temporary fill in.

    I wouldn't waste too many tears regretting his departure.

    This guy is not a worth it , he was just another average player in a long line of average players.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    Clear cash/add Punto who can play more infield positions than Scutaro and not create a problem seeing if Iglesias can take the reins. Pretty obvious to me.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Right, but there is definitly room to question whether it is wise to trust the SS job to Punto, a 34 year old who has never started more than 60 games at SS and in the last 2 years has started a total of 37.  Or to Aviles who in the last 2 years has started a total of 17 games at SS. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In response to "Why was Scutaro traded?": It may have just been a case where the Front Office said, "Is Marco Scutaro at 37 really that much better than Mike Aviles?" Maybe they figured Iglesias should be given more of an opportunity and 6 million dollars in payroll flexibility is nothing to sneeze at, either. There are the whispers about Scutaro being the leak and it's becoming more obvious every day that they really want Iglesias to win the job...
    Posted by jasko2248


    I agree that the hope is that Iglesias wins the job but if he cannot we are entrusting the job to Aviles, a guy who really hasn't played SS since 2008.   I see the thinking but it is not without risk. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?":
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : Right, but there is definitly room to question whether it is wise to trust the SS job to Punto, a 34 year old who has never started more than 60 games at SS and in the last 2 years has started a total of 37.  Or to Aviles who in the last 2 years has started a total of 17 games at SS.  Posted by Thesemenarecowards
    Based on early indications, including Bobby V's comments, Punto isn't really in the mix to win the starting SS job.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?": Based on early indications, including Bobby V's comments, Punto isn't really in the mix to win the starting SS job.
    Posted by jasko2248


    I was more or less responding to another post.  I've been operating under the assumption if they don't want to go with Iglesias it will be Aviles, with Punto playing the role of utility IF.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?":
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : I agree that the hope is that Iglesias wins the job but if he cannot we are entrusting the job to Aviles, a guy who really hasn't played SS since 2008.   I see the thinking but it is not without risk.  Posted by Thesemenarecowards
    Agreed, but I'm not overly concerned at this point. If none of the in-house options work, then they will obviously make a move. This notion that you need a superstar SS to win it all, is overblown. Look at the last 20 World Champions. Outside of Jeter, not much...Tejeda, Nomar, A-rod, Tulowitski and Reyes all have one thing in common. None has ever been a starting shortstop for a World Champion... ,
     
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    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    Nick Punto said this morning that Iglesias is the best defensive SS he has ever seen.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?": Agreed, but I'm not overly concerned at this point. If none of the in-house options work, then they will obviously make a move. This notion that you need a superstar SS to win it all, is overblown. Look at the last 20 World Champions. Outside of Jeter, not much...Tejeda, Nomar, A-rod, Tulowitski and Reyes all have one thing in common. None has ever been a starting shortstop for a World Champion... ,
    Posted by jasko2248


    You mean that they were never in the right place at the right time - much like Ted Williams, Yaz, Rice, Lynn.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : Space, Bard was on WEEI this morning with D&C talking about the transition from the bullpen to the rotation. Said he has all four pitches, which he used but most didnt notice because he usually went to his go to pitch. He's excited to be given the opportunity and feels its the right move for him. Also saw an interview with Valentine, who said he's "been blown away" by Bard's stuff. I'm feeling better and better about this as time goes on.
    Posted by J-BAY


    I don't wish anything bad on anyone, but I am warning all of RSN to not get overly hyped on Bards move to the rotation. Yankee fans made that mistake with Joba's supposed 4 above average pitches with an extreme fastball and that blew up in our face. Maybe Bard does better - I have no idea. I guess the plan is for Dice-K to take over the role in the rotation by the A.S. break as I don't see Bard throwing more than 140 innings this year.
     
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    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    The Sox are cleaning house on guys over 35. The never intended to bring Ortiz back, offering arbitration in hopes of him declining and receiving compensation, but Ortiz threw a wrench in the works by accepting.
    I like the idea of a younger core of players, just don't like the way they are going about it.
    I think BV wants to start Iglesias at short, and may well lobby for Lavarnway to make the 25 man roster as well.
    This can only happen if they keep the pitching staff at 11 and trade Salty. Someone else would have to be moved as well and it wouldn't surprise me if Dmac was the PTBNL in the Epstein deal
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?":
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : You mean that they were never in the right place at the right time - much like Ted Williams, Yaz, Rice, Lynn. Posted by lowelll
    Exactly...it takes a team to win a Championship...the Sox have enough talent elsewhere on the roster where they don't need a great SS to win it all...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?":
    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded? : I don't wish anything bad on anyone, but I am warning all of RSN to not get overly hyped on Bards move to the rotation. Yankee fans made that mistake with Joba's supposed 4 above average pitches with an extreme fastball and that blew up in our face. Maybe Bard does better - I have no idea. I guess the plan is for Dice-K to take over the role in the rotation by the A.S. break as I don't see Bard throwing more than 140 innings this year. Posted by jesseyeric
    Actually Jessey, replacing Bard with Dice-K is not the plan. The plan is to have Bard remain a starter throughout the season. You will likely see him have the phantom injury to get some rest, but it's not impossible for him to throw closer to 200 innings. Derek Lowe won 21 games and added 120 innings his first year as a starter. No offense, but I've heard that Joba being a colossal failure so far has more to do with his 5 cent head than anything else...
     
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    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    I am curious about why they traded him too. I did hear Valentine did not like him. I hate when our team acts like paupers and that is the way we have behaved all off season. If this team struggles out of the gate casue of starting pitching, Young Ben is going to have his neck in a chopping block because he could have picked up an additional starter like Jackson or Oswalt. I think our starting pitching is way too thin and if an injury occurrs to the top three guys early, this team is dead. No established Shortstop i another serious worry as well.
     
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    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    The Sox are cleaning house on guys over 35. The never intended to bring Ortiz back, offering arbitration in hopes of him declining and receiving compensation, but Ortiz threw a wrench in the works by accepting.
    Posted by Alibiike


    They must have at least anticipated the possibility of Ortiz accepting arbitration.  Ortiz's agent would have apprised him of the fact that there were not a lot of teams clamoring for $13 million+ DH's.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    Scutaro was a payroll dump.  The Sox are well over the LT threshold already.  So trading Scutaro cut 6 million plus 40% tax = 8.4 million.  Obviously they feel they can cover SS with Iggy & Aviles.  And maybe there is something to the rumored friction between BV and Scutaro.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    In response to "Re: Why was Scutaro traded?": Actually Jessey, replacing Bard with Dice-K is not the plan. The plan is to have Bard remain a starter throughout the season. You will likely see him have the phantom injury to get some rest, but it's not impossible for him to throw closer to 200 innings. Derek Lowe won 21 games and added 120 innings his first year as a starter. No offense, but I've heard that Joba being a colossal failure so far has more to do with his 5 cent head than anything else...
    Posted by jasko2248


    Agree.  I think a Bard to Lowe comparison is far more relevant than Bard to Joba, not b/c of 5 cent heads, heck Lowe had an 10 cent head, but because Bard and Lowe are similar pitchers.  Both have a very smooth easy delivery, which is why I think Lowe transitioned so well and why I feel confident Bard can do the same. 

    Another, more recent comparison, I would point to is Masterson.  He pitched primarily out of the pen for the Red Sox but went to Cleveland and actually began starting for the Indians mid-season 2009 and since has started 29 and 34 games the last 2 years.  Again, Masterson like Bard, has a smooth fluid motion that with my amateur expertice on pitching mechanics and my medically untrained eye, would seem to be an important precursor to successfully making the transition from bullpen to roation.
     
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    Re: Why was Scutaro traded?

    In Response to Re: Why was Scutaro traded?:
    Scutaro was a payroll dump.  The Sox are well over the LT threshold already.  So trading Scutaro cut 6 million plus 40% tax = 8.4 million.  Obviously they feel they can cover SS with Iggy & Aviles.  And maybe there is something to the rumored friction between BV and Scutaro.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Do you have a link to your payroll totals? Trufan saying is "Keeping them honest".
     
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