Why you trade for Cliff Lee

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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    Does Conan ever leave the computer?

     




     

     

    Just what do you think you are staring at? A black board?

     

     



    There are often 12 hour gaps between my posts.  As soon as I post, there you are with 100 more posts to your total count. You need to get out, it may may you a happier person.

     




     

     

     

    You keeping track of my posts is is making me laugh.

    Shows how much of a creep you truly are.

     

     




    It is tough not to notice, you respond to all of my posts.  It takes a second to glance over. You responding to all of my posts and all of pumpsie's is pretty creepy.

    I only look when you respond to my posts, so I guess the situation can be easily solved.




    There is no need to repeat what Conan the Moron is posting here. It has nothing to do with anything other than personal crap Jackbu. Why not do what I did (and several others here have done) and put him on ignore? Let him continue to bray his donkey talk into thin air.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    I don't think we get Lee. I'd like to see him in a Sox uni.

    It will take Webster or Ranaudo or Barnes or RDLR PLUS WMB or JBJ and perhaps Vazquez. So would you deal Webster JBJ and Vazquez  FOR LEE and two prospects and the $12.5 M buyout.

    Would Lee, Buch, Lester, Dempster and a healthy Morales be enough to get you to the playoffs?

     



    Where is John Lackey in this rotation?  There will obviously be plenty of suitors for Lee at the deadline if he is pitching well and they are out of it.  The Phillies have a huge new TV contract, so they won't be looking to just dump him and his salary unless they get a ton in return.  They aren't going to just blow up that team and go into rebuild mode, either.  A lot can happen over the next 2 months, so it's a little early to determine whether or not he will even be available.  

     

     



    Thanks Jasko--I knew I was missing someone. 

     

    The Sox do have to do something in the next 10 months--alot sooner actually--to move some of this talent congregating at AAA and AA they don't intend to use. 

    3 minor league catchers on the 40 not including Swihart .

    Other 40 options:

    Drake Britton at AA

    Alex Hassan at AAA

    Ells, Drew and Nap will be on to FA

     

    Ok, lets get this thread back on track after a sligh derailment.....


    The Sox have 19 prospects that are rule-5 eligible this offseason. There will be some names that probably wont get a second look, but there are plenty that will.

     

    The Sox will have to make some big 40-man roster decisions like, will they non-tender Bard if hes still struggling this year? Guys like Dan Butler, Brock Holt, and some guys in MLB Like Ciriaco and other possible non-tender candidates.

    Im sure they will include some in trades before they are possibly snatched up for only $50,000. Should be some interesting decisions coming up at the deadline and this offseason.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee


    Where is John Lackey in this rotation?  There will obviously be plenty of suitors for Lee at the deadline if he is pitching well and they are out of it.  The Phillies have a huge new TV contract, so they won't be looking to just dump him and his salary unless they get a ton in return.  They aren't going to just blow up that team and go into rebuild mode, either.  A lot can happen over the next 2 months, so it's a little early to determine whether or not he will even be available.  

    [/QUOTE]

    My prediction is Boston, Baltimore, the Yankees and possibly Texas all make a pitch for Lee before the deadline.  The money may seem like a lot to some but it really isn't if you look at our financials moving forward.  Lee's value and interest to a team on the verge of a playoff berth or possible championship will be there, as will Paps. 

    Either way you look at it Lackey and Dempster at this point have a combined record of 5 and 11 even though a few of those games could have gone differently, while Doub and Morales will probably be in the pen come playoff time.  Our team still needs that strong number three to have a legit shot this season.  The addition of Lee could seperate one of these teams from the rest of the pack.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Send them Ellsbury and Dumpster, and let them pick either Webster or De La Rosa (Add Owens if needed to top other offers) as the price for assuming the remaining debt on Lee, which is about 75 million dollars. 

    Ellsbury would be a major immediate upgrade over Revere, who is young and would give the Phillies the option of buying Ellsbury's FA years or going back to Revere, next year.  

    Dumpster would be a shorter termer (1.5 and only 20M left due) who would give them an NL #3 starter and an obvious big drop from Lee but it hasn't worked and the Phillies need everyday offense improvement more than the net difference they will be losing from Lee to Dumpster on the starting pitching front.

    Ellsbury 6M left and Dumpster 7M left for 2013 =  13M

    Lee = 13M left for 2013 

    Phillies can wipe Ellsbury off the books, if they want to, for 2014, or retain him and pay FA market if they like how they and the team do going forward. Dumpster is only 13.25M and one season and he would go off their books about 50 million dollars less than Lee.

    Phillies also get Webster or De La Rosa (And Owens if required to top the trade makret for Lee) as prospect compensation for Lee's departure.

    This trade would make both teams better because of NL v. AL factor and team weaknesses.

    Red Sox would then need to get as much of S. Drew's and Dumpster's contracts off the books, as possible, which would likely be all of it because there will be a team who needs a middle infielder because of injury and the remaining costs of about 5M means that even small market teams looking like solid year long contenders will be in the trade market.

    Dumpster's 7M due for this year and 13.25M due for next year should not be hard to move off the books to an NL team because he has an AL 4.45 ERA and his contract is short. 

      For the Red Sox:

    2013 Ellsbury's pro-rated 9M off the books

    2013 Get S. Drew's pro-rated 9.5M off the books

    2013 Get Dumpster's pro-rated 13.25M off the books

    2013 Add Lee's 25M pro-rated on the books

    Get 31.75M pro-rated off the books and add Lee and the difference is a net 2013 pro-rated reduction of 6.75M. The Red Sox could then use this amount to send with Dumpster and/or S. Drew to get them off the books.

     

    While the Phillies may want to continue on with Lee, I believe this deal makes them better and is a good deal for both teams.

     

     

     

     

     

     

          

     

     

     

    If they will make that deal, the Red Sox management should do it because Lee has shown no signs of serious decline and would be a major role player for at least 2.5 years of the 25M base portion of his contract.

     



    softlaw,

     

    My reasoning is this, having Lee or Braun on the club improves our team in a huge way compared to players presently in these roles.  If we can dump more bad salary in the process even better. 

    Victorino, Braun, Bradley and Nava?  would allow us to trade Ells and dump Gomes without missing a beat.

    Lee, Lester and Clay? Hands down better than Demp, Lackey, Doub or Morales

    Some fans don't realize, there is always room for improvement without waiting for a few possible prospects to develop, or not.  It could make our team a real threat sooner rather than later without hurting us financially or depleting the farm all that much.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Send them Ellsbury and Dumpster, and let them pick either Webster or De La Rosa (Add Owens if needed to top other offers) as the price for assuming the remaining debt on Lee, which is about 75 million dollars. 

    Ellsbury would be a major immediate upgrade over Revere, who is young and would give the Phillies the option of buying Ellsbury's FA years or going back to Revere, next year.  

    Dumpster would be a shorter termer (1.5 and only 20M left due) who would give them an NL #3 starter and an obvious big drop from Lee but it hasn't worked and the Phillies need everyday offense improvement more than the net difference they will be losing from Lee to Dumpster on the starting pitching front.

    Ellsbury 6M left and Dumpster 7M left for 2013 =  13M

    Lee = 13M left for 2013 

    Phillies can wipe Ellsbury off the books, if they want to, for 2014, or retain him and pay FA market if they like how they and the team do going forward. Dumpster is only 13.25M and one season and he would go off their books about 50 million dollars less than Lee.

    Phillies also get Webster or De La Rosa (And Owens if required to top the trade makret for Lee) as prospect compensation for Lee's departure.

    This trade would make both teams better because of NL v. AL factor and team weaknesses.

    Red Sox would then need to get as much of S. Drew's and Dumpster's contracts off the books, as possible, which would likely be all of it because there will be a team who needs a middle infielder because of injury and the remaining costs of about 5M means that even small market teams looking like solid year long contenders will be in the trade market.

    Dumpster's 7M due for this year and 13.25M due for next year should not be hard to move off the books to an NL team because he has an AL 4.45 ERA and his contract is short. 

      For the Red Sox:

    2013 Ellsbury's pro-rated 9M off the books

    2013 Get S. Drew's pro-rated 9.5M off the books

    2013 Get Dumpster's pro-rated 13.25M off the books

    2013 Add Lee's 25M pro-rated on the books

    Get 31.75M pro-rated off the books and add Lee and the difference is a net 2013 pro-rated reduction of 6.75M. The Red Sox could then use this amount to send with Dumpster and/or S. Drew to get them off the books.

     

    While the Phillies may want to continue on with Lee, I believe this deal makes them better and is a good deal for both teams.

     

     

     

     

     

     

          

     

     

     

    If they will make that deal, the Red Sox management should do it because Lee has shown no signs of serious decline and would be a major role player for at least 2.5 years of the 25M base portion of his contract.

     



    softlaw,

     

    My reasoning is this, having Lee or Braun on the club improves our team in a huge way compared to players presently in these roles.  If we can dump more bad salary in the process even better. 

    Victorino, Braun, Bradley and Nava?  would allow us to trade Ells and dump Gomes without missing a beat.

    Lee, Lester and Clay? Hands down better than Demp, Lackey, Doub or Morales

    Some fans don't realize, there is always room for improvement without waiting for a few possible prospects to develop, or not.  It could make our team a real threat sooner rather than later without hurting us financially or depleting the farm all that much.

     



    Having Verlander and Miguel Cabrera would help too. There's only one obstacle; getting the GMs to agree to it, contracts notwithstanding.

     

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    Did I miss something?  Last I heard Red Sox was listed in Cliff Lee's no trade clause.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

    Did I miss something?  Last I heard Red Sox was listed in Cliff Lee's no trade clause.



    Thats a good thing too, because we made the mistake of trying to buy a great team once. So did the Dodgers, the Angels, and the Blue Jays. How did all that work out? No way we should buy Cliff Lee from the Phillies. Way too much money.....

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    Question you are now the GM of the Phillies. Why would you take Ellsbury when you know he is a FA next year as you have always said. If he would not sign with the RS what makes you think he'll sign with Philly? Then as the GM why would you trade Lee your best pitcher and signed thru 2016 for 2 or 3 pitchers who at best would be your 3 or 4 or 5 pitcher? Include in the possibility that Hamels and Holiday are not what they were when you see their ERAs going up . You trade Lee and you have no top pitcher.

     This proposed trade does not work for the Phillies on any level.

    Love the Red Sox and enjoy the ride every year.

     
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    Re: Why you trade for Cliff Lee

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Question you are now the GM of the Phillies. Why would you take Ellsbury when you know he is a FA next year as you have always said.

    Because the trade offer involves more than Ellsbury, and Ellsbury is a major upgrade over Revere.

    If he would not sign with the RS what makes you think he'll sign with Philly?

    Nothing, and I haven't suggested that he would. However, the trade offer is more than Ellsbury and the Phillies would have him for more than 1/2 a season where they can decide if they want to make a market offer. Ellsbury will sign the highest offer sheet, no matter what team it is.

    Then as the GM why would you trade Lee your best pitcher and signed thru 2016 for 2 or 3 pitchers who at best would be your 3 or 4 or 5 pitcher? Include in the possibility that Hamels and Holiday are not what they were when you see their ERAs going up . You trade Lee and you have no top pitcher.

    The Phillies problems hasn't been pitching, it's been an impotent offense. The Phillies would get Ellsbury and their pick of either Dempster or Lackey or Doubrant. They already have Hamels as a top lefty starter, under long term contract. In addition, the Phillies cut payroll and get Webster or De La Rosa (and Owens if that's what the trade market requires).

    What the Phillies have been doing is not working. The Nats and the Braves have moved past them and their impotent offense.

    This proposed trade does not work for the Phillies on any level.

    False. It works on two levels.

    They cut payroll and immediately become a better overall team by acquiring Ellsbury and 2 or 3 starting pitchers:

    Ellsbury + Dempster or Lackey or Doubrant + Webster or De La Rosa (+ Owens if needed for trade market) is  > than Lee for the Phillies roster construction in the league they play in

    Going forward, the Phillies move forward with Hamels and one MLB starter who is much cheaper, as well as Webster or De La Rosa. The Phillies free up a lot budget to sign a copule of bigger name Free agents that could include Garza and Ellsbury or Choo for about the same annual cost or less than if they continue on with Lee.

    The trade works for both teams.

     



    Do not understand your thinking? How does Ellsbury make Philly immediately better but makes the RS worse? you play jbjr over Ellsbury but not the current Phil's player who is very good???

     

    if the RS pitcher has an era going up he suks but the Phil's have Halliday and Hamels are and you say they are still top pitchers?

     

    sorry softy you can not say one thing about a RS player and say the opposite about another teams player just because it fits you theory.

     
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