will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

    [/QUOTE] imo, he and Maddux are two guys who numbers don't do justice...

    Their numbers are pretty good, but when compared to pictehrs who were very good for 13 or more years, they fallo short in some categories.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Koolga's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He should get in on the 1st year he's eligible.  Pedro was a great pitcher, the best there was when he was in his prime.

    As far as the other's, I expect it will be a bunch of years for Schilling (if he even gets the support - which he should) and who knows on Clemens (will probably eventually get it - no conviction or admission he used - even though the consensus seems to think he did).

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Definitely believe that Pedro will get in the 1st year that he is eligible.  He was one of the most dominant pitchers of his era. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

     He was one of the most dominant pitchers of his era.  

    He was "The most" dominating for 7 years (1999-2005)... maybe even 10 years, not "one of the" most...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Helloitsmeagain. Show Helloitsmeagain's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedro should obviously get in. If he doesn't maybe they should change who does the voting. Isn't it writers? That never made any sense to me. I wonder if players didn't get in because they didn't give "good press", or perhaps no press.

    As for throwing Zimmer, Zimmer attacked him on the mound. He merely pushed him out of the way and Zimmer went down on his own momentum. No one should be blamed for defending themselves from a lunatic who attacks players on the field.

    [/QUOTE]

    As usual you don't have a clue about what happened.

    First off, it wasn't even near the mound as pedro wasn't even pitching at the time.

    Secondly, he didn't "merely push him out of the way", he grabbed him by the head and threw him to the ground.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H3lWEF0ScA

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    how could he not be?  that would be crazy shocking...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Their numbers are pretty good, but when compared to pictehrs who were very good for 13 or more years, they fallo short in some categories.

    [/QUOTE]i agree Moon, i just meant in the sense of strip away the numbers just "eyes only" watching them pitch you're like.. damn...


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Their numbers are pretty good, but when compared to pictehrs who were very good for 13 or more years, they fallo short in some categories.

    [/QUOTE]i agree Moon, i just meant in the sense of strip away the numbers just "eyes only" watching them pitch you're like.. damn...


    [/QUOTE]

    I remember watching a game when Pedro was still with the Expos, and the announcer said something like some pitchers have electric stuff, Pedro's is nuclear.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

    [/QUOTE] imo, he and Maddux are two guys who numbers don't do justice...

    Their numbers are pretty good, but when compared to pictehrs who were very good for 13 or more years, they fallo short in some categories.

    [/QUOTE]

    So do Koufax's

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from taz1956. Show taz1956's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Helloitsmeagain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedro should obviously get in. If he doesn't maybe they should change who does the voting. Isn't it writers? That never made any sense to me. I wonder if players didn't get in because they didn't give "good press", or perhaps no press.

    As for throwing Zimmer, Zimmer attacked him on the mound. He merely pushed him out of the way and Zimmer went down on his own momentum. No one should be blamed for defending themselves from a lunatic who attacks players on the field.

    [/QUOTE]

    As usual you don't have a clue about what happened.

    First off, it wasn't even near the mound as pedro wasn't even pitching at the time.

    Secondly, he didn't "merely push him out of the way", he grabbed him by the head and threw him to the ground.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H3lWEF0ScA

    [/QUOTE]


    After I saw what happened to Bill Lee in a simular situation, Pedro cannot be blamed for defending himself. Zimmer had no business being on the field in the first place!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Helloitsmeagain. Show Helloitsmeagain's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

     

    After I saw what happened to Bill Lee in a simular situation, Pedro cannot be blamed for defending himself. Zimmer had no business being on the field in the first place!

    [/QUOTE]


    I never said he shouldn't have defended himself.

     

    But clearly pikesaysthis never saw it or she would have know it ddn't happen on the mound and he surely didn't just "push him out of the way"

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Helloitsmeagain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    After I saw what happened to Bill Lee in a simular situation, Pedro cannot be blamed for defending himself. Zimmer had no business being on the field in the first place!

    [/QUOTE]


    I never said he shouldn't have defended himself.

     

    But clearly pikesaysthis never saw it or she would have know it ddn't happen on the mound and he surely didn't just "push him out of the way"

    [/QUOTE]


    Don't expect her to not distort the facts through her Yankee-hater prism. She does it all the time, although lately has backed off some, and actually has talked about baseball - amazing.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    I also think the fact that he did all of this and pitched in a hitter's park speaks volumes about how far above anyone else in the league that he was.  1st ballot - no doubt!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

    [/QUOTE] imo, he and Maddux are two guys who numbers don't do justice...

    Their numbers are pretty good, but when compared to pictehrs who were very good for 13 or more years, they fallo short in some categories.

    [/QUOTE]

    So do Koufax's

    [/QUOTE]

    I had this argument with harness too; I don't have the data in front of me, but when you compare Koufax to the league average in his era, the differential is less than with Pedro. Koufax has ungodly numbers, but there were several pitchers in that era that had super great numbers as well. Pedro put up his numbers in the hitter's era. Koufax put up his numbers mostly in the pitcher's era.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a big believer in the premise of the first ballot being only for special players. Pedro was special and should and almost certainly will be a first ballot selection. I think Greg Maddux is another example.

     I wish the voters  were more focused on greatness vs longevity. What if Justin Verlander at his Cy Young winning ceremony next year got into a fist fight with CC Sabathia. Miguel Cabrera in the process of breaking up the fight crushed Verlander, pulled Sabathia's  arm out of its socket and  Cabrera felt guilty, gained 200 pounds and became a budist monk? None of them get into the HOF?

    Who has been more important to the game of baseball, those 3 or Bert Blyleven? Who is greater? More historic? Who do you want remembered? Who do you want your kids to read about? Who is more interesting? Who was more valuable to the game? On what basis other then longevity stats does Blyleven get in and those three not?

     [/QUOTE]

    Pretty amazing pitching staff the Braves put together for so many consecutive years starting with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz plus Steve Avery for a few very good seasons. With free agency that type of longevity, excellence and dominance will undoubtedly never happen again.

    With regard to Smoltz, if he had not gone to the Bullpen for Atlanta he could have won as many as 270-280 games but instead relieved for four seasons, closed for three consecutive seasons with 144 saves in total. Does Smoltz deserve HOF consideration. 213 wins, 154 saves, whip 1.17, era 3.33 with a lifetime winning percentage of .579 plus a 15-4 won-loss post season record. I say yes when his time comes.  

    Hetch 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i think not.. he should be but with all these agendas, i think they'll let him squirm for a couple of years! probably going in with schill...

    [/QUOTE]


    Pedro should be automatic first timer..... No reason to even vote and waste the ink......

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Helloitsmeagain. Show Helloitsmeagain's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

     

    Schilling was more than just a great big game pitcher. Unless I am mistaken , Curt ranks 26th all time among pitchers in WAR.  I am not a huge fan of WAR , but many are.  At least it shows that he was consistently one of the best in the business. He was even better in the post season , after being a big factor in his team reaching the post season. In Philly , Arizona and , of course , Boston. His problem is that he was very outspoken , and some people do not like him for that reason. I think he deserves to be in the Hall.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mussina ranks #20 all time WAR (baseball reference) and, while not winning a WS, he did have some pretty darn good post season performances as well.

    In 1997 with the orioles, Mussina had a postseason run of 7 two hit innings, 7 three hit innings with 15 strikeouts and 8 one hit innings with 10 strikeouts that could easily compare to schilling's 2001.

    Mussina also might be viewed on a higher pedestal had the 2003 Yanks been able to win the WS. Moose came through with 3 huge scoreless innings in relief of Clemens in game 7 of the ALCS and also put the Yanks up 2-1 over the marlins when he won game 3 in Florida.

    Wins - Moose 270 schilling 216

    Winning % - Moose .638 schilling .597

    ERA - Moose 3.68 schilling 3.46

    WHiP - Moose 1.19 schilling 1.13

    GG - Moose 7 schilling 0

    And Moose pitched his whole career in the AL East

    Does that mean Moose should get in ahead of schill?

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    I had this argument with harness too; I don't have the data in front of me, but when you compare Koufax to the league average in his era, the differential is less than with Pedro. Koufax has ungodly numbers, but there were several pitchers in that era that had super great numbers as well. Pedro put up his numbers in the hitter's era. Koufax put up his numbers mostly in the pitcher's era.

    The numbers between Koufax and Pedro aren't really even that close, once you try to make the baselines similar. The difference between Koufax and the average pitcher is much smaller than pedro and the average pitcher.  Start with the ERA+ difference between Koufax (131+) and Pedro (154+).

    But here is the most remarkable thing-Koufax pitched in an era

    • with a higher mound
    • with less of no steroids
    • no DH

    Pedro's ERA on the road was 3.08.  Koufax' road ERA was 3.04.  How are the road ERAs almost identical despite Koufax' seemingly overwhelming advantages?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i think not.. he should be but with all these agendas, i think they'll let him squirm for a couple of years! probably going in with schill...

    [/QUOTE]

    I predict Pedro will have little trouble entering the HOF

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    He is a 1st ballot HoF for sure.  he dominated.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had this argument with harness too; I don't have the data in front of me, but when you compare Koufax to the league average in his era, the differential is less than with Pedro. Koufax has ungodly numbers, but there were several pitchers in that era that had super great numbers as well. Pedro put up his numbers in the hitter's era. Koufax put up his numbers mostly in the pitcher's era.

    The numbers between Koufax and Pedro aren't really even that close, once you try to make the baselines similar. The difference between Koufax and the average pitcher is much smaller than pedro and the average pitcher.  Start with the ERA+ difference between Koufax (131+) and Pedro (154+).

    But here is the most remarkable thing-Koufax pitched in an era

    • with a higher mound
    • with less of no steroids
    • no DH

    Pedro's ERA on the road was 3.08.  Koufax' road ERA was 3.04.  How are the road ERAs almost identical despite Koufax' seemingly overwhelming advantages?

    [/QUOTE]

    I really think Pedro might have been the most dominating pitcher of all time for a 7 year period... maybe even 10 years.

    Comparing his ERA and WHIP to the league ERA of his era shows a stunning disparity. Add to that the park factor, the DH, the mound height, strength of schedule (offensive powerhouses in the AL East), and it's almost not debateable.

    It's hard to compare between eras, but compared to his peers, he was the most dominating pitcher ever (over a 7-10 years span- long enough for HOF purposes).

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I really think Pedro might have been the most dominating pitcher of all time for a 7 year period... maybe even 10 years.

    Comparing his ERA and WHIP to the league ERA of his era shows a stunning disparity. Add to that the park factor, the DH, the mound height, strength of schedule (offensive powerhouses in the AL East), and it's almost not debateable.

    It's hard to compare between eras, but compared to his peers, he was the most dominating pitcher ever (over a 7-10 years span- long enough for HOF purposes).

    [/QUOTE]


    I think you mean the most dominating starter.

     

    Mo is the most dominating pitcher in terms of ERA and WHiP

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, and ERA by relief pitchers who often come in with 1 or 2 outs is often skewed lower.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't like the Schilling jack Morris comparable so many have been floating.  Jack had some nails performances and was a bulldog of bulldogs no doubt.  But, really, based on overall careers, neither Schill nor Morris should get in.  But Schilling gets his card because He Might Be The Best Post Season Pitcher of All Time.  That is a special exemption.

    [/QUOTE]


    Schilling was more than just a great big game pitcher. Unless I am mistaken , Curt ranks 26th all time among pitchers in WAR.  I am not a huge fan of WAR , but many are.  At least it shows that he was consistently one of the best in the business. He was even better in the post season , after being a big factor in his team reaching the post season. In Philly , Arizona and , of course , Boston. His problem is that he was very outspoken , and some people do not like him for that reason. I think he deserves to be in the Hall.

    [/QUOTE] and while with the Phils he  posted some of the sickest BB/K ratios i've ever seen....


    [/QUOTE]


    schill still has the all-time best bb/k ratio in the HISTORY of the game!

    [/QUOTE]

    Schill should get in eventually.  Will take a while though.  Jack Morris - no.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux are first-ballot hall of famers

    Smoltz has no business whatsoever in the HOF.

    Glavine should get in, but should not be allowed on the first class.

    Maddux is a first ballot HOF'er, without a doubt.

    Schilling should get in about the last time he can stay on the ballot. His 3 titles and 2 superlative post-season WS runs should get him in over these quantity 300 wins and not much else carps.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed on all counts.

     
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