will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    First ballot. Unless all the NY writers hold it against him for all the times's he busted a Yankee in tight or throwing Zim to the ground.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.



    I don't like the Schilling jack Morris comparable so many have been floating.  Jack had some nails performances and was a bulldog of bulldogs no doubt.  But, really, based on overall careers, neither Schill nor Morris should get in.  But Schilling gets his card because He Might Be The Best Post Season Pitcher of All Time.  That is a special exemption.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.



    I don't like the Schilling jack Morris comparable so many have been floating.  Jack had some nails performances and was a bulldog of bulldogs no doubt.  But, really, based on overall careers, neither Schill nor Morris should get in.  But Schilling gets his card because He Might Be The Best Post Season Pitcher of All Time.  That is a special exemption.




    Schilling was more than just a great big game pitcher. Unless I am mistaken , Curt ranks 26th all time among pitchers in WAR.  I am not a huge fan of WAR , but many are.  At least it shows that he was consistently one of the best in the business. He was even better in the post season , after being a big factor in his team reaching the post season. In Philly , Arizona and , of course , Boston. His problem is that he was very outspoken , and some people do not like him for that reason. I think he deserves to be in the Hall.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.



    I don't like the Schilling jack Morris comparable so many have been floating.  Jack had some nails performances and was a bulldog of bulldogs no doubt.  But, really, based on overall careers, neither Schill nor Morris should get in.  But Schilling gets his card because He Might Be The Best Post Season Pitcher of All Time.  That is a special exemption.




    Schilling was more than just a great big game pitcher. Unless I am mistaken , Curt ranks 16th all time among pitchers in WAR.  I am not a huge fan of WAR , but many are.  At least it shows that he was consistently one of the best in the business. He was even better in the post season , after being a big factor in his team reaching the post season. In Philly , Arizona and , of course , Boston. His problem is that he was very outspoken , and some people do not like him for that reason. I think he deserves to be in the Hall.



    Schilling was a fantastic pitcher, as you suggest.  No doubt much more than just a big game pitcher.  But, while I think WAR is a decent measuring stick, I don't think it carries much weight for Hall voters, at least in comparison to the established benchmark numbers that get a player in.  I am just saying Schilling doesn't get in based on those benchmarks.  But he gets an exepmption because of his post season exploits and he will rise above the rest of the really really good pitchers with Schilling-like numbers who never got in.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Should be unanimous first ballot HOF.  If he is not a first ballot hall of famer, there is not one currently playing the game.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:

    i think not.. he should be but with all these agendas, i think they'll let him squirm for a couple of years! probably going in with schill...



    Absolutely the stats for a first ballot introduction. Nuff Said

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Pedro, Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux are first-ballot hall of famers. 

    As for Schilling, he will eventually get in. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to craig2174's comment:

    Should be unanimous first ballot HOF.  If he is not a first ballot hall of famer, there is not one currently playing the game.



    Well, he was robbed of at least a couple MVPs. One guy never put him on his MVP ballot.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Dumb thread. Are there 24 hours in  a day?

    Which brings me to this: Babe Ruth was not voted in by about 6 % of the voters. Now who is this 6%?

     

    Similar results can be seen for Cobb, Williams, Mays, etc.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Dumb thread. Are there 24 hours in  a day?

    Which brings me to this: Babe Ruth was not voted in by about 6 % of the voters. Now who is this 6%?

     

    Similar results can be seen for Cobb, Williams, Mays, etc.



    It shows the flaw in the system. If 6% can leave those guys out, who knows...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Dumb thread. Are there 24 hours in  a day?

    Which brings me to this: Babe Ruth was not voted in by about 6 % of the voters. Now who is this 6%?

     

    Similar results can be seen for Cobb, Williams, Mays, etc.



    It shows the flaw in the system. If 6% can leave those guys out, who knows...



    It's more general of the human condition. It shows no matter what the subject, there's some wacky opinions out there.  Just like this board.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Pedro should obviously get in. If he doesn't maybe they should change who does the voting. Isn't it writers? That never made any sense to me. I wonder if players didn't get in because they didn't give "good press", or perhaps no press.

    As for throwing Zimmer, Zimmer attacked him on the mound. He merely pushed him out of the way and Zimmer went down on his own momentum. No one should be blamed for defending themselves from a lunatic who attacks players on the field.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Pedro gets in first ballot, no question.  If Nelson de la Rosa were alive, he'd have brung him to the HOF Induction Ceremony and placed him on the podium.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    And after he's done with the ceremony, he'll head over to the Field of Dreams to drill the Bambino in the butt.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    Pedro gets in first ballot, no question.  If Nelson de la Rosa were alive, he'd have brung him to the HOF Induction Ceremony and placed him on the podium.




    playing the role of Nelson de la Rosa

     

     

     

     





     

     

     

     

     

     


    ''And after he's done with the ceremony, he'll head over to the Field of Dreams to drill the Bambino in the butt''.

     

    LOL Sheriff


     



    Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good, Zac.  But I won't be calling you "My daddy."

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I like Schilling for the Hall, but there is a fair margin between him and Pedro.  Schilling gets in after the true greats like Pedro and Maddox get in.



    I don't like the Schilling jack Morris comparable so many have been floating.  Jack had some nails performances and was a bulldog of bulldogs no doubt.  But, really, based on overall careers, neither Schill nor Morris should get in.  But Schilling gets his card because He Might Be The Best Post Season Pitcher of All Time.  That is a special exemption.




    Schilling was more than just a great big game pitcher. Unless I am mistaken , Curt ranks 26th all time among pitchers in WAR.  I am not a huge fan of WAR , but many are.  At least it shows that he was consistently one of the best in the business. He was even better in the post season , after being a big factor in his team reaching the post season. In Philly , Arizona and , of course , Boston. His problem is that he was very outspoken , and some people do not like him for that reason. I think he deserves to be in the Hall.

    and while with the Phils he  posted some of the sickest BB/K ratios i've ever seen....


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    This alone should put to rest any doubts...

     

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Pedro should obviously get in. If he doesn't maybe they should change who does the voting. Isn't it writers? That never made any sense to me. I wonder if players didn't get in because they didn't give "good press", or perhaps no press.

    As for throwing Zimmer, Zimmer attacked him on the mound. He merely pushed him out of the way and Zimmer went down on his own momentum. No one should be blamed for defending themselves from a lunatic who attacks players on the field.



    That's what kept Jim Rice out so long.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    This alone should put to rest any doubts...

     

    Here are just some dominating numbers from the best pitcher of our generation:

    Best WHIP single season (0.737) in 2000 (during a "hitting era") He let up only 5.3 hits per 9 IP which is 0.045 from the record.

    2nd best K/9 rate in a single season (13.20) in 1999 (.2 from Randy Johnson). He also had the 9th best (11.78 in 2000), 13th best (11.37 in 1997) and 24th best (10.79 in 2002)

    7th best K/BB ratio in a single season (8.88 in 2000) & 10th best (8.46 in 1999)

    From 1997 to 2003 ( 7 seasons), Pedro had these numbers:

    118-36 (Avg: 17-5)

    2.20 ERA  (+0.49 over 2nd place Kevin Brown)

    0.94 WHIP (+0.14 over 2nd place Schilling)

    5.59 K/BB (+0.01 over 2nd place Schilling and 1.48 over 3rd place G Maddox)

    11.25 K/9 (2nd to R Johnson's 12.11)

    47  ERA-  (2nd place was 60 by R Johnson followed by 27 pitchers between 66-86) Truly, he seperated himself from the pack.

     

    The thing that stands out most to me about these 7 years, is the fact that his differential over the league average was so astronomical that he is leaps and bounds ahead of the best pitchers from the 60's over the league norm at that time.

    ERA  4.45, 4.55, 4.82, 4.87, 4.57, 4.41, 4.52 (Note: the ML avg in 2000 was 4.87: a differential of 3.13! Can you believe this? Pedro's ERA was 3.13 lower than the league avg in 2000, 2.75 in 1999, and 2.55 differential in 1997! I don't have the comparatives, but I am sure this blows any other pitcher vs his era away.) 

    WHIP  1.40, 1.40, 1.46, 1.46, 1.39, 1.37, 1.38 (Pedro's 2000 WHIP of 0.74 is 0.72 from teh average, meaning his WHIP was almost half the league avg!)

    K/BB  1.9, 2.0, 1.8, 1.7, 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 (Pedro's 8.9 in 2000 was over 5 times the league avg of 1.7 in 2000)

    K/9   6.4, 6.4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.4, 6.2, 6.1 (Pedro's 1999 13.2 K/9 rate was over double the league avg) 

    He led the league in ...

    WHIP 6 times in 9 years (1997-2005)

    winning% 3 times in 5 years (1999-2003)

    ERA 5 times in 7 years (1997-2003)

    k/9  5 times in 7 tears

    Ks  3 times in 4 yrs

     

    Folks, there is not debate. Pedro is arguably the best 7 year SP in MLB history. He stacks up against anyones 10 year stretch pretty well as well (1996-2005).

    imo, he and Maddux are two guys who numbers don't do justice...


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: will PEDRO be a first-balloter? will he get in BEFORE clemens and schill?

    Prediction: Maddux will make it next yr. Can't say that with certainty about anyone else. It looks like Morris will have to wait for the Veteran's committee.

     
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