Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]Thoughts?
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    I'm just wondering how many triple crowns Jesus Montero will win.....minimum of 5....book it.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Players are considered "future All Stars" as soon as they have a good week

    The AL is in a SS drought lately.  Other than Escobar who the Sox could have traded Gonzalez for, but that is another story, who is an AL all-star SS?  I predicted Jed would make ti in December, not b/c of this week,  b/c he had an .835 OPS as a LHH in the minors. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]Players are considered "future All Stars" as soon as they have a good week The AL is in a SS drought lately.  Other than Escobar who the Sox could have traded Gonzalez for, but that is another story, who is an AL all-star SS?  I predicted Jed would make ti in December, not b/c of this week,  b/c he had an .835 OPS as a LHH in the minors. 
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Elvis Andrus is a nice SS
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Lowrie's numbers are inflated right now with a big hot streak but he is showing why the RS were high on him.

    I tend to doubt that Lowrie will be the long term future for the RS at SS as he really is a 2B being blocked by the Laser Show. While he is not awful at SS he is limited in his range.

    But I felt he had a good shot at taking major PT away from Scutaro in ST and turns out he is making his bid right now when the RS needed it.

    Iglesias as some have noted certainly has some work to do on his offense and if Lowrie's offense is what the RS think it is (good OBP - gap power) it simply gives the RS the luxury of not having to rush Iglesias into MLB or sign another bridge player like Scutaro for 2012.

    This post is on the money, which is hard for those who aren't sober and look at last year and Lowrie's career numbers against RHP.

    Lowrie struck out in his only AB against a RHP, today. He is a 2nd baseman, defensively, one who will never be impressive hitting against RHP. If only the other GM's were as euphoric about Lowrie, the team long term future could be vastly improved by selling Lowrie high.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias : Elvis Andrus is a nice SS
    Posted by mikeyinthebronx[/QUOTE]

    Andrus is off to a really slow start .564.  Plus All-star spots are probably more likely given for offensive stats, not that that is right.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias : Andrus is off to a really slow start .564.  Plus All-star spots are probably more likely given forr offensive stats, not that that is right.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    He could afford to hit a little more....The Rangers were just in town and I saw him a lot last year and in the playoffs.  He just plays the position really well, turns a nice DP and has a lot of range but you're right about the offense.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    First of all, it's too early to be picking all stars based on stats. Not that stats matter, mind you.

    Because we all (should) know that all star voting is a popularity contest.

    And furthermore, Lowrie is not even our starting shortstop as of right now.

    Based on all that, you know Jeter could be batting .126 and still get the majority of votes and start the All Star game.

    That's the way that it is and you can never change it. A flawed system which puts authority in the hands of anyone who can click a mouse...knowledge of the game is optional, and in most cases , non-existant.

    Lowrie has to "earn" it in the eyes of the fans....that's all "voting" fans not just Red Sox fans.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karlosantonylimtiaco. Show Karlosantonylimtiaco's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Give it more time. These things work themselves out. Give Iglesias more time to develop. Do not rush. Lowrie might prove to be a genuine article, one we would never part with. He plays many positions. Let him be a DH/fill-in for all infield positions. He can essentially play in every game. This assumes we let Papi walk next year. Again, give it some time. I am a happier man these days, now that we have won a few in a roll. Let's ride this hot streak all the way to first place. I'll be at Anaheim (Fenway West: Afterall, more Sox fans show up to these games than Angel fans) Friday to welcome the boys in town. Those three games in a row make me feel better about the chances. GO REDSOX!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]First of all, it's too early to be picking all stars based on stats. Not that stats matter, mind you. Because we all (should) know that all star voting is a popularity contest. And furthermore, Lowrie is not even our starting shortstop as of right now. Based on all that, you know Jeter could be batting .126 and still get the majority of votes and start the All Star game. That's the way that it is and you can never change it. A flawed system which puts authority in the hands of anyone who can click a mouse...knowledge of the game is optional, and in most cases , non-existant. Lowrie has to "earn" it in the eyes of the fans....that's all "voting" fans not just Red Sox fans.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    AL:  fans pick 9, players pick 16, manager picks 8, fans on the net pick 34th. I doubt UZR gets many looks.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Real nice thing to say to someone who simply asked a question. Geesh leave people alone if you can't add anything to the conversation.

    We need to wait on this one as he ins't ready to leave AAA yet.


    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]Are you a manic-depressive?
    Posted by ChrisHouse[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Lowrie has a career OPS of .780, the small 171 AB sample size last year in know way proves he is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. I like Lowrie, but he is going to be a mid to high 700's on the OPS over the long term, and it seems like many posters on this board WILDLY overrate his glove. Whatever, if you are looking for a consistent all-star in Jed, be prepared to be let down.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Well said, Storm.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    If J-Jo goes O for 33 his BA will be .250

    2010 OPS

    Escobar    696
    Scutaro    721
    Jeter        710
    Rameriz    744

    Lowrie has a career OPS of .780, the small 171 AB sample size last year in know way proves he is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. Who has said for years to come? He is 27 in his prime now is his peak.

    I like Lowrie, but he is going to be a mid to high 700's on the OPS over the long term, and it seems like many posters on this board WILDLY overrate his glove. Whatever, if you are looking for a consistent all-star in Jed, be prepared to be let down.

    Are you basing the high 700's prediction on his .835 minors as a LHH or his time playing with a fractured wrist?

    Neither player can range far to their right and get enough on the ball when they jump and drift towards third. Even Escobar failed to get J-Lo on one of his infield hits Sunday on that kind of throw, he had ebough on it just to far to the left.

     I would say Scutaro used to be better not anymore. Scutaro 554 total chances at SS 20 errors, Lowrie total chances at SS 319 with 4 errors, so I would say Scutaro is less sure handed.  I will concede Scutaro may get to more balls, but is his range that much better?  I don't think he makes any more outs going to his right b/c even if his range is better that way his arm is, he sadly no longer can make that throw.

    4/14 Georom "man we know were in a deep pile of it when we start looking at Jed as our savior"
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Well said Tom.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]I am always entertained by the whims and fantasies of Red Sox Nation. Players are considered "future All Stars" as soon as they have a good week. Players are considered "future All Stars" before they ever play a game in the majors. Sometimes one good at bat leads "knee-jerk reaction brigade" to ask that this player be considered for the Hall of Fame. File this controversy under the category of 'Wishful thinking.'
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    I agree that fans have knee-jerk reactions to players having good weeks.  Others have knee-jerk reactions to players having bad weeks.  There seemed to be a lot of  poachers on this board last week ready to poke forks into players and declare "busts". 

    There are just a lot of knee-jerks on both sides of the spectrum. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    errors total are only a small part of fielding metrics. Lowrie's lack of range helps in the "error" department, but that didn't stop him from booting an easy step on 2nd and throw to first double play ball.

    This is a poor time to be talking about Lowrie v. Iglesias. Give it more than Lowrie and a couple of weeks.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Park Adjusted Best Hitting SS in MLB since J-Lo comes of DL last July, It's not Tulo or HanRam.

    Top 6 OPS since All-star game 2010.
    Only players higher: Hamilton, Bautista,  Konerko, Thome, Cabrera 

    10/5/2010  
     .393 wOBA in 200 PA.  He put up the 15th highest wOBA in MLB 2010 > 190PA.  The point is he is capable of going on a tear that very few SS can.  Offense is down ~4.8% and SS offense is way down especially in AL.  

    Soxbeacon  4/19/11

    Since July 21, when Lowrie was activated off of the DL, and through yesterday’s contest, he has hit .310/.396/.543 over 225 plate appearances.

    I had Baseball Prospectus colleague Dan Turkenkopf bring up a list of shortstop production since July 21, 2010. Using True Average, a rate stat that encompasses offensive production in to one, neat, tidy number, we can see who has been the best.

    Lowrie is the leading shortstop, via TAv, since his return. Lowrie has a .354 True AverageTulowitzki–who has hit .331/.407/.672 ranks second at .349.

    Tulowitzki, between his defense, his position, and his production, has an argument to be made that he is the best player in baseball. And, if you’re wondering why Tulowitzki’s line looks so much better than Lowrie’s, but Lowrie is considered slightly more productive, it is due to park effects–Tulowitzki is a fantastic hitter in his own right, but playing in Colorado can make even awful hitters look like solid ones. Tulowitzki is what happens when a great hitter is allowed to play there in half of his games. Fenway, while hitter-friendly, has more in common with pitcher parks than it does Coors Field.

    The point is that Lowrie is one hell of a hitter, and his bat needs to be in the lineup every day. He isn’t a defensive whiz, by any means, but if his TAv is 70-100 points above the league average shortstop’s, then the word defense never even needs to be uttered.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    I always thought having multiple good players at every position was a good thing.  Injuries happen, either on your own roster or on other teams, and having organizational depth and/or trade prospects is not a bad thing in my book. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]Lowrie has a career OPS of .780, the small 171 AB sample size last year in know way proves he is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. I like Lowrie, but he is going to be a mid to high 700's on the OPS over the long term, and it seems like many posters on this board WILDLY overrate his glove. Whatever, if you are looking for a consistent all-star in Jed, be prepared to be let down.
    Posted by stormcrow7878[/QUOTE]

    So you want to weigh his injured time in 2008/2009 more heavily than his healthy time?  Even simply removing his injured 2009 greatly boosts his career line.  That's with his injured 2008 season still included.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    In Response to Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias : Until Iglesias shows that he can actually hit (and no, hitting .285/.315/.357 in AA) is not acceptable, I'll assume that he won't be up until 2013 at the earliest.  There's not a controversy between the two players; just like there's not really a controversy between Scutaro and Lowrie.  We're talking about very small sample sizes so far.  Also, calling the two players future All-Stars is like calling Omar Infante an All-Star.  Yeah, it happened, but is he really an All-Star caliber player?
    Posted by redsoxfan791[/QUOTE]

    Right now its like a late-90's Jeff Frye or David Eckstein at 2B controversey with Nomar entrenched at SS the way Pedey is now at 2B.

    I see Lowrie more as Billy Mueller than Frye, he's a solid 6' like Bill and a switch hitter, but for sake of his/Iglesias current roles in the organization I'll compare it to like '95-'98 Frye/Eckstein situation. At least this current ownership/GM would never do something as dumb as signing Offerman and trading Eckstein, which is how it ended back then.
     
    Frye was a part-time 57-106 game guy in 6 of his 8 seasons between age 25 and 34. He was a multi-positional .290/.357 guy, which is what I see Lowrie being. Jed has much more power tho, like Mueller.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Will the Sox have a SS controversy between 2 future All Stars in 2012? Lowrie vs. Iglesias

    Fools on this board like Softy (currently 'BaseballGM') laughed at a Lowrie/Mueller comparison w/o even looking at Muller's pedestrian career stats. They/he assumed Lowrie would always hit like he did with a bad wrist. Ha!

    Tito and Billy himself said Lowrie reminded them of Mueller when he totally outplayed Lugo's 1st half of a season in the second half of '08 (in 1 less AB).

    Other than his freak great '03 season here Mueller was an on-again off-again starter at 2 infield spots hitting .290/.370 with about 10 HR and 25 doubles a year. He was not fast, but made the sure-handed plays and didn't make a lot of errors like Lowrie. He hit better RH than LH and had a knack for big hits.

    He is so much like Lowrie I chuckle to think of the energy wasted by the idiot Softflaw trying to make such a hramless comparison seem impossible.
     

Share