Will there be any help coming at all?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    I honestly wouldn't have a huge issue with the Sox being the ones waving the white flag (as tough as that is to say). It's the right year for it, coming off a championship and with a ton of talent coming up, and they have a few pieces that could bring back a killing, and are just at the right point of their contracts. Lester would bring back a major prospect, even just for a playoff rental. Peavy and maybe Buchholz would fetch something solid. Gomes, Nava, Victorino (if he gets healthy by then) and Drew (if he hits at all) are all role players that will help a playoff push. All the kids and Pedroia are completely untouchable. Papi should be as well, unless some crazy GM offers too much. And the guy who might be the prized gem of the team would be Lackey. He's not going to be around long enough for these kids to grow around him anyway, he's been pitching like a B ace for most of the past two seasons, and he has that AMAZINGLY good contract next season that another team might be willing to part with young talent for. On top of that, you've got a pretty solid bullpen right now, and teams are always willing to part with too much for bullpen help at the deadline, even though most bullpen arms vary year to year.

    Obviously I'm not all for a complete gutting of last year's players, but a few of them could be big chips this deadline.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    Help won't matter. The best thing for this team is to be out of it and launch as many players as they can. Even Doubront. This will be his last start, let's hope so.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    time is QUICKLY RUNNING OUT

    a trade for an OF bat wouldn't just be for this year but for the next several and possibly beyond

    [/QUOTE]


    Time is not quickly running out, unless you are firmly entrenched in the “do ANYTHING” camp.  The Sox really do need to get an OF bat, but what bats that are available now are really impact bats?  John Mayberry isn’t going to salvage this season.

     

    As it stands now, there are maybe 5 or 6 teams that might be sellers.  Even Tampa has said they plan to keep as much of their lineup together as possible for 2015.  So teams willing to move some players are probably limited to teams like Cubs, Phillies, Padres, Diamondbacks, Mets and Astros, and probably not even all of them.  (And while the Astros might be sellers, all things considered like contract, control etc., George Springer might be harder to acquire than Mike Trout. So don’ t even bother mentioning him.).  And while there are some reasonable names on these rosters that represent upgrades for the Sox, at what cost and how much of an upgrade?

     

    For example, sure San Diego will move Carlos Quentin, but do they want, say Betts or Owens?  I’m sure BC has asked about him, but we don’t know the answer to the second part of that question.  If you don’t like Quention – and many don’t – other names that the Sox might be able to get today include Chris Denorfia, Will Venable, Nate Schierholtz, Chris Young, Seth Smith, and Cody Ross.  Again, some possibilities, despite the lack of sexy names.

     

    The Wild Card is the Dodgers, who have said any outfielder except Puig is available.  However, outside of Puig, what player makes sense?  Ethier is probably the best bet, and he is owed $56mill over the next 3 years, which is a lot for a guy who struggles mightily against LHP.  Crawford?  I think  we can all agree there is a better chance of me patrolling LF at Fenway than there is of Crawford returning.  That leaves Kemp, who is owed $117mill through until 2020, and has not been the same player since 2011 due to health issues and rumored effort concerns.  Certainly his defense has plummeted, although this is less of a concern for Boston, as they have the lest spacious LF in MLB. 

     

    Interesting stat, since the beginning of 2013

     

    Matt Kemp – 539PA, .760OPS

    Daniel Nava – 665PA, .784OPS

     

    And while Nava, who is really a specialty role player, isn’t the potential offensive force Kemp is, this is more of a statement of what may have happened to Kemp the last couple of years.  Whether or not you like OPS, if you truly believe Kamp is the saving force to salvage 2014 and carry this team beyond, in no way should be even be comparable to Nava in a full season worth of plate appearances, even with the fact that Nava’s PA’s are geared to a situational advantage.  I mean, Kemp is a giant physical human being, one whom Hall of Famer Don Sutton nicknamed “The Bison” after the largest land mammal in North America.  Nava looks like he could be the batboy’s son.   This stat should NEVER exist.  Yet it does.

     

    Sure, Kemp might have a hot streak that helps the Sox In 2014, but once he is on the roster, he is here until 2020, taking up about 20% of the Luxury Tax Budget, and potentially spending more and more time on the DL.  In the “possibly beyond” category, he stands a greater chance of being a liability than an asset.  In this respect, oft-injured Carlos Quentin is probably a smarter move, simply because he won’t cripple the roster for nearly as long if he doesn’t work out.  And while Nava probably never hits again like he did in 2013, the mere fact that all of the earlier cited numbers exists shows what a huge potential albatross Kemp is.  Bear in mind he was that bad BEFORE turning 30 (which he turns in September).  If he is struggling at 28 and 29, how can you justify wanting him at 35?    

     

    But, OK, anyone can have one bad season.

     

    Since the beginning of 2012

     

    Matt Kamp – 988PA, .826OPS

    Jonny Gomes – 879PA, .792OPS

    Daniel Nava – 982PA, .760OPS

    Shane Victorino – 1297PA, .738OPS

     

    And while Kemp was marginally more productive over the last 2+ years, the real shocker to me is the plate appearances.  He barely played more often than 2 role players who frequently platoon, and less often than a guy many fans feel is injured too often and unreliable.  OK, if you can’t count on Victorino to stay on the field, how can you count on Kemp?

     

    Not to mention, while we all think the Dodgers would give Kemp away, none of us really knows.  Sure, they might take, say, Peavy, or some lesser prospect like a Jamie Callahan (doubtful).  But what if they ask for Betts and/or Owens?  What is the price limit?  Given to how the Sox were linked to him all off-season, yet he is not here, one has to think it is higher than we expect.  (Or, he is a really questionable physical specimen.) Maybe not Betts, but probably not Peavy or Callahan, either.

     

    I can live with the Sox not winning in 2014, but I hate to see them ruin 2015 through 2019 while chasing this season.    I plan on rooting for this team then, too.   In fact, I’d rather make short term patches for this season that don’t cost, and investigate the plans the Marlins (who, like the Dodgers, have a surplus of starting OF) have and what they want for Giancarlo Stanton.  Or Marcell Ozuna. 

     

    But preferably Stanton…

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    apparently it is the "year of the pitcher" part deux.....

     

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, the year of the pitcher against the Red Sox. Did you see the Brewers/Rockies game? Blue Jays/Reds?

    It's because the Red Sox lineup is the most anemic in baseball.

    Red Sox will be facing Hernandez and Iwakuma in Seattle. That should be fun.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:


    which teams are already waving the white flag??  if they are, they may not even have a player that can play in OF and can bat well at the same time he is being over-paid so they can put him on the market.


    Wait in three to four weeks, we ll see at least five more teams waving their white flag, and that is the better time to find a better player.  


    You just do not want to just grab a guy and test him.  Then he ll be a busted player.  Right now players that could be on the market per reading the rumors is Brown of Phillies (he is having similar problem as Middlebrook), mayberry of Phillies, Kubel of Twins (DFA player), Quentin of Padres, etc.   Which guys are able to help Boston with their offense??  Quentin is on the decline, Brown is struggling just like Middlebrook, Mayberry and Kubel are both in the 30's, and not hitting well lately.  


    So therefore, there is not much out there.  





    Not right now, unless you like stopgap measures.


     


    Personally, I like the idea of getting Seth Smith from San Diego.  The guy really is a very good and underrated hitter.  He’s basically Andre Ethier without the contract.


     


    I saw the Dom Brown for a “change of scenery candidate” speculation as well, and immediately thought of Middlebrooks.  And while the Sox could probably pull this deal off today, is it really an upgrade?  Brown has an OPS+ of 67 this year and 99 for his career.  Middlebrooks has an OPS+ of 75 this year, and 99 for his career.  He’s basically Brown, but actually in the process of having a better year.   And while Brown has been a slightly below average hitter fir nearly twice as many plate appearances, his numbers are bolstered by one insane month last year.   As much as I am not a fan of Middlebrooks, Brown is a step down.


     


    Kubel is just injured too often and struggling as bad as everyone we already have.  Mayberry is a platoon player and therefore not a need for a team that already has too many platoon players.  Quentin is an underrated slugger, but does have massive health concerns, and, from what I hear, is an unpleasant human being.


     


    One move the Sox could make today is to send a LHRP to the Angels (Capuano? Breslow? Miller?) for an outfielder.  However, the best expendable one the Halos have is probably Collin Cowgill, who has a .761 OPS (126OPS+) across 171 plate appearances. Maybe Cowgill, who was never rated as a prospect at any level, is on the verge of breaking out?  Or maybe he will fall back to reality and be the journeyman bench player he has always been.  At best, he is a stopgap.  His .888 road OPS is encouraging over his .708 home OPS.  But I’m not too excited here; we are talking about 171 plate appearances.  He might be worth a shot for, say, Breslow or Capuano, but in no way do you deal Miller for him.  If the Sox are lucky, Cowgill is Brock Holt 2.0, now with actual OF experience.   But hopefully the Sox get that Cowgill is, at best, a life raft.  He might keep you from sinking or a while.  But he won’t help you survive long term…

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Help won't matter. The best thing for this team is to be out of it and launch as many players as they can. Even Doubront. This will be his last start, let's hope so.

    [/QUOTE]


    At least you will enjoy it.  You only watch when thee is a strong possibility of complaining...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.

    [/QUOTE]

    More like December 1.

     

    And he will very likely cost Betts and Owens and more...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.

    [/QUOTE]

    More like December 1.

     

    And he will very likely cost Betts and Owens and more...

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, the fact that Miami is in the race means Stanton probably isn't for sale.  He may be for sale in the same sense that any player is hypothetically for sale for the right price.  No G.M. is dumb enough to pay a kings ransom to pry away a guy who isn't on the trading block.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    The FO particularly Larry Luchinno are in panic mode because it's close to the end of June and this team cannot hit water if they fell out of a boat. Luchinno sold us on these major league ready rookies who are not all ready and are going to go through peaks and valleys.  He figured that the pain if they failed, would be offset because of the World Series title last year. The real issue is that the struggle of the rookies is capitalized because Of the mediocre play of Gomes, Pzeiernski, Pedroia, Napoli, Nava as well as Victorino's continuous injuries this year. This team did nothing in the off season to pick anyone up in the off season and just figured that the above listed players were going to do what they did last year. Napoli was striking out last year like crazy and what made people think he was going to stop that in 2014 ? We were lucky against Detroit because we were setting a record with strikeouts and even struggled to score runs against the Cardinals in several of those games. 


    The Red Sox are going to be major sellers in August with the FO looking to dump more payroll by the end of the year


    Larry Luchinno is the hatchet man and is running this team and will never relinquish power to anyone now that Epstein is gone. Ben Cherrington is basically a tool of Luchinno in the FO. The problem is that they panicked on all free agents of substance because of what happened in 2011. They then passed on Cepedes and Tanaka completely as well as a few others because they were scared of long term contracts and were more interested in supposedly major league ready position players  like Baeggerts, Jackie Bradley Jr. who are at major league minimum money. Now they are afraid to bring up a another position player from the minors because of another potential flop and the criticism from the press in Boston that will follow.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    When you have Pitching don't need many bats, to win games. When you don't, you need them all. I have a problem with Farrell not trying to play more small ball at this point, to try to get things going. Been watching to long to give up on Sox, and haven't hit 81 games yet.


    After 78 when you lose a 14 game lead, I learned my lesson.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:


    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.




    No way at this point why would the Marlins make that deal when they are in a race? Besides Jackie Bradley Jr is struggling for two years now, why would the Marlins want him ?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to AL34's comment:


    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


     


    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.


     


     




    No way at this point why would the Marlins make that deal when they are in a race? Besides Jackie Bradley Jr is struggling for two years now, why would the Marlins want him ?


     


    [/QUOTE]



    I know, I literally just said that 4 posts up, and never suggested Florida would take JBJ.  I was merely humoring the people on this board.  I was also working from the angle of trading for a Stanton-esq guy, doesn't have to be Stanton but my point was if the Sox did pull of a trade of that magnitude it would likely come towards the end of July.  I've actually been saying for the last couple months Stanton is unlikely, but Stanton isn't the only player in the universe who is capable of helping this team.


    If Stanton gets traded, it is likely this winter, or next years deadline.  And even then, another team could always outbid us.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    Looking at Marlins Farm, they would want Pitching Prospects and a Catcher. their infield at Triple AAA, is good, and they have a good Outfielder. There Pitching at that level is below average. With Fernandez hurt, I'm guessing Pitching. Starts with Owens.


     


     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    The Sox very well could get Stanton....but don't expect him to be in a Sox uniform much earlier than August 1st.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No way at this point why would the Marlins make that deal when they are in a race? Besides Jackie Bradley Jr is struggling for two years now, why would the Marlins want him ?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I know, I literally just said that 4 posts up, and never suggested Florida would take JBJ.  I was merely humoring the people on this board.  I was also working from the angle of trading for a Stanton-esq guy.  I've actually been saying for the last couple months Stanton is unlikely.

    If Stanton gets traded, it is likely this winter, or next years deadline.  And even then, another team could always outbid us.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree this Red Sox team is dead in the water the problem with that is that the media will be criticizing the FO all summer because of the lack of activity over the Winter and the way they are defending their Worl Series title this year.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    A WS champion that raises the white flag the following year should be put in front of a firing squad.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Looking at Marlins Farm, they would want Pitching Prospects and a Catcher. their infield at Triple AAA, is good, and they have a good Outfielder. There Pitching at that level is below average. With Fernandez hurt, I'm guessing Pitching. Starts with Owens.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It looks like Stanton would cost, at minimum, Betts, Owens and Vazquez.  Per mlbtr, Vazquez is the Sox more sought-after prospect, which surprised me a little.

     

    I really doubt Saltalamacchia and his 3 year deal get in the way at all...

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to Flash-Gordon's comment:


    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The FO particularly Larry Luchinno are in panic mode because it's close to the end of June and this team cannot hit water if they fell out of a boat. Luchinno sold us on these major league ready rookies who are not all ready and are going to go through peaks and valleys.  He figured that the pain if they failed, would be offset because of the World Series title last year. The real issue is that the struggle of the rookies is capitalized because Of the mediocre play of Gomes, Pzeiernski, Pedroia, Napoli, Nava as well as Victorino's continuous injuries this year. This team did nothing in the off season to pick anyone up in the off season and just figured that the above listed players were going to do what they did last year. Napoli was striking out last year like crazy and what made people think he was going to stop that in 2014 ? We were lucky against Detroit because we were setting a record with strikeouts and even struggled to score runs against the Cardinals in several of those games. 


     


    The Red Sox are going to be major sellers in August with the FO looking to dump more payroll by the end of the year


     


    Larry Luchinno is the hatchet man and is running this team and will never relinquish power to anyone now that Epstein is gone. Ben Cherrington is basically a tool of Luchinno in the FO. The problem is that they panicked on all free agents of substance because of what happened in 2011. They then passed on Cepedes and Tanaka completely as well as a few others because they were scared of long term contracts and were more interested in supposedly major league ready position players  like Baeggerts, Jackie Bradley Jr. who are at major league minimum money. Now they are afraid to bring up a another position player from the minors because of another potential flop and the criticism from the press in Boston that will follow. The best pickup we made in the off season in the way of a position player was Grady Sizemore( who had not played in two years). Come on, they went to sleep at the Winter Meetings and it shows this year. They are never going to make up the games they are behind hitting like they are now. Never, stop drinking Kool Aid and smell the coffee.




    Exactly how do you know Larry is running the team, do they let you sit in on the front office meetings or do they have you on a conference call?


    [/QUOTE]

    If you think Cherrington is running this team, your naive ! Henry was never going to give Anyone the power that Epstein had, and Luchinno had to accept it, not now. Cheering ton is a wet behind the ears tool who was told to go with cheaper alternatives and other teams throw always.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A WS champion that raises the white flag the following year should be put in front of a firing squad.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, the Yankees would never do that, our guys were looking to maximize profits this year and go with cheaper major league minimum rookies because they figured people would be okay with it after they won the World Series last year.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Will there be any help coming at all?

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A WS champion that raises the white flag the following year should be put in front of a firing squad.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, the Yankees would never do that, our guys were looking to maximize profits this year and go with cheaper major league minimum rookies because they figured people would be okay with it after they won the World Series last year.

    [/QUOTE]

    And where do we stand exactly relative to the salary cap? Right up against it. The problem was not how much money was spent, it was how the available resources were allocated. That and the abject failure of Bradley and Middlebrooks to perform. The FO simply overestimated the level of talent on the team. 

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
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