will they should they end collisions at home plate

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    will they should they end collisions at home plate

    will they  should they

    end collisions at home plate


    just heard dave valle talking about the same thing on mlbnet




    Matheny wants to ban home-plate collisions

    A former catcher, Cardinals manager has change of heart about plays at dish

    By Matthew Leach / MLB.com | 2/26/2013 3:48 P.M. ET



    FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Cardinals manager Mike Matheny has changed his mind completely when it comes to collisions at home plate, and he is looking forward to explaining his position to Major League Baseball. Matheny has requested a meeting with Joe Torre, MLB's executive vice president of baseball operations, to discuss the matter.

    Matheny, who was a big league catcher for 13 seasons, explained on Tuesday morning that he has come to believe baseball should and eventually will ban home-plate collisions. It's a viewpoint to which he's only recently come around.

    A concussion ended Matheny's career, but Matheny said that was only a small factor in his change of heart. More importantly, he has seen his own children suffer concussions playing sports, and seen collisions from a different vantage point now that he's managing instead of playing.

    Torre recently told the San Francisco Chronicle that he is willing to listen to opposing views, but that he is not in favor of a change in the rules. Matheny emphasized his respect for Torre, also a former catcher, but still said he wants the chance to plead his case.

    "I know the league wants to do the right thing and I know Joe does a great job," Matheny said. "So that's my prelude.

    "But I do believe that this game will get to the point where there will no longer be a collision at the plate. And I am 100 percent in support of that."

    Matheny framed it primarily as a risk-reward matter, explaining that any increase in the entertainment value from collisions is outweighed by safety concerns.

    "I'd just love to hear the rebuttal," Matheny said, "because what I've personally witnessed was enough for me to change my mind. It actually took me a little longer 'till I got to the realization of the risk we're putting these guys in -- and the runner, too. The runner is stuck in a spot sometimes where if he doesn't do it, he feels like he's let his team down. Take it out of their hands. This isn't a collision sport. There's enough of a physical grind with guys being out there for 162 games. We've got the physical aspect of this game. It doesn't need to include that one spot."

    To Matheny, it can't simply be a matter of banning runners from charging the plate. Any rule change, he argued, must also include a provision preventing catchers from blocking the plate entirely. In essence, he believes baseball should treat plays at home plate like plays at the other three bases.

    Matheny explained that the Cardinals teach their catchers not to block the plate entirely, so as to allow runners some area where they can slide. But he also said that as long as the rules are written as they are now, catchers must always be prepared for the possibility of a collision.

    "While the rule is intact right now, we have to prepare every play," Matheny said. "The problem is, if you ever get to that point, and even teaching it this year, let's try to get out of the way, whenever you do that, you put yourself in position to get hurt. So we're going to teach it the exact same way, with blocking the plate and preparing for collision. It's all about your health. If you can come up with the ball, it's a bonus. But right now, it's just protect yourself, and that sounds awful even when you say it: the play is to protect yourself.

    "I understand old school, and I consider myself an old school player, as far as the way I go out and the way I was taught the game. I just don't see the sense in it."

    Matheny also said that St. Louis players are instructed not to seek out collisions, not to be "headhunters," unless they have absolutely no other way to score on a play at the plate. Still, Matheny made it clear that he's a realist. Until and unless the rules are changed, collisions will continue to happen -- and that's what Matheny hopes to prevent.

    "We're talking about the brain," Matheny said. "It's just been so shoved under the rug. I didn't want to be the poster boy for this gig, but I was able to witness in ways I can't even explain to people how that altered by life for a short period of time and changed the person that I was. It's scary. So that being said, you look at this game, can this game survive without this play? And I say absolutely. You're putting people at risk."




    while the  grown up in me must say  yeah

    the kid in me says no way

    it's our good hit from the NFL our hocky fight, race car crash

    here's some MLB Collisions

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    Catchers should not be allowed to block the plate. It should be ruled obstruction. That would put a stop to the collisions. Can the first baseman block first base ? 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    will they  should they

    end collisions at home plate


    just heard dave valle talking about the same thing on mlbnet




    Matheny wants to ban home-plate collisions

    A former catcher, Cardinals manager has change of heart about plays at dish

    By Matthew Leach / MLB.com | 2/26/2013 3:48 P.M. ET



    FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Cardinals manager Mike Matheny has changed his mind completely when it comes to collisions at home plate, and he is looking forward to explaining his position to Major League Baseball. Matheny has requested a meeting with Joe Torre, MLB's executive vice president of baseball operations, to discuss the matter.

    Matheny, who was a big league catcher for 13 seasons, explained on Tuesday morning that he has come to believe baseball should and eventually will ban home-plate collisions. It's a viewpoint to which he's only recently come around.

    A concussion ended Matheny's career, but Matheny said that was only a small factor in his change of heart. More importantly, he has seen his own children suffer concussions playing sports, and seen collisions from a different vantage point now that he's managing instead of playing.

    Torre recently told the San Francisco Chronicle that he is willing to listen to opposing views, but that he is not in favor of a change in the rules. Matheny emphasized his respect for Torre, also a former catcher, but still said he wants the chance to plead his case.

    "I know the league wants to do the right thing and I know Joe does a great job," Matheny said. "So that's my prelude.

    "But I do believe that this game will get to the point where there will no longer be a collision at the plate. And I am 100 percent in support of that."

    Matheny framed it primarily as a risk-reward matter, explaining that any increase in the entertainment value from collisions is outweighed by safety concerns.

    "I'd just love to hear the rebuttal," Matheny said, "because what I've personally witnessed was enough for me to change my mind. It actually took me a little longer 'till I got to the realization of the risk we're putting these guys in -- and the runner, too. The runner is stuck in a spot sometimes where if he doesn't do it, he feels like he's let his team down. Take it out of their hands. This isn't a collision sport. There's enough of a physical grind with guys being out there for 162 games. We've got the physical aspect of this game. It doesn't need to include that one spot."

    To Matheny, it can't simply be a matter of banning runners from charging the plate. Any rule change, he argued, must also include a provision preventing catchers from blocking the plate entirely. In essence, he believes baseball should treat plays at home plate like plays at the other three bases.

    Matheny explained that the Cardinals teach their catchers not to block the plate entirely, so as to allow runners some area where they can slide. But he also said that as long as the rules are written as they are now, catchers must always be prepared for the possibility of a collision.

    "While the rule is intact right now, we have to prepare every play," Matheny said. "The problem is, if you ever get to that point, and even teaching it this year, let's try to get out of the way, whenever you do that, you put yourself in position to get hurt. So we're going to teach it the exact same way, with blocking the plate and preparing for collision. It's all about your health. If you can come up with the ball, it's a bonus. But right now, it's just protect yourself, and that sounds awful even when you say it: the play is to protect yourself.

    "I understand old school, and I consider myself an old school player, as far as the way I go out and the way I was taught the game. I just don't see the sense in it."

    Matheny also said that St. Louis players are instructed not to seek out collisions, not to be "headhunters," unless they have absolutely no other way to score on a play at the plate. Still, Matheny made it clear that he's a realist. Until and unless the rules are changed, collisions will continue to happen -- and that's what Matheny hopes to prevent.

    "We're talking about the brain," Matheny said. "It's just been so shoved under the rug. I didn't want to be the poster boy for this gig, but I was able to witness in ways I can't even explain to people how that altered by life for a short period of time and changed the person that I was. It's scary. So that being said, you look at this game, can this game survive without this play? And I say absolutely. You're putting people at risk."




    while the  grown up in me must say  yeah

    the kid in me says no way

    it's our good hit from the NFL our hocky fight, race car crash

    here's some MLB Collisions

    how would they even work that?...i could only see forcing a slide..which could put the runner in postion of injury, i don't see a runner giving themself up...or by runners' distance from plate when catcher has control of ball???.. 


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    will they  should they

    end collisions at home plate


    just heard dave valle talking about the same thing on mlbnet




    Matheny wants to ban home-plate collisions

    A former catcher, Cardinals manager has change of heart about plays at dish

    By Matthew Leach / MLB.com | 2/26/2013 3:48 P.M. ET



    FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Cardinals manager Mike Matheny has changed his mind completely when it comes to collisions at home plate, and he is looking forward to explaining his position to Major League Baseball. Matheny has requested a meeting with Joe Torre, MLB's executive vice president of baseball operations, to discuss the matter.

    Matheny, who was a big league catcher for 13 seasons, explained on Tuesday morning that he has come to believe baseball should and eventually will ban home-plate collisions. It's a viewpoint to which he's only recently come around.

    A concussion ended Matheny's career, but Matheny said that was only a small factor in his change of heart. More importantly, he has seen his own children suffer concussions playing sports, and seen collisions from a different vantage point now that he's managing instead of playing.

    Torre recently told the San Francisco Chronicle that he is willing to listen to opposing views, but that he is not in favor of a change in the rules. Matheny emphasized his respect for Torre, also a former catcher, but still said he wants the chance to plead his case.

    "I know the league wants to do the right thing and I know Joe does a great job," Matheny said. "So that's my prelude.

    "But I do believe that this game will get to the point where there will no longer be a collision at the plate. And I am 100 percent in support of that."

    Matheny framed it primarily as a risk-reward matter, explaining that any increase in the entertainment value from collisions is outweighed by safety concerns.

    "I'd just love to hear the rebuttal," Matheny said, "because what I've personally witnessed was enough for me to change my mind. It actually took me a little longer 'till I got to the realization of the risk we're putting these guys in -- and the runner, too. The runner is stuck in a spot sometimes where if he doesn't do it, he feels like he's let his team down. Take it out of their hands. This isn't a collision sport. There's enough of a physical grind with guys being out there for 162 games. We've got the physical aspect of this game. It doesn't need to include that one spot."

    To Matheny, it can't simply be a matter of banning runners from charging the plate. Any rule change, he argued, must also include a provision preventing catchers from blocking the plate entirely. In essence, he believes baseball should treat plays at home plate like plays at the other three bases.

    Matheny explained that the Cardinals teach their catchers not to block the plate entirely, so as to allow runners some area where they can slide. But he also said that as long as the rules are written as they are now, catchers must always be prepared for the possibility of a collision.

    "While the rule is intact right now, we have to prepare every play," Matheny said. "The problem is, if you ever get to that point, and even teaching it this year, let's try to get out of the way, whenever you do that, you put yourself in position to get hurt. So we're going to teach it the exact same way, with blocking the plate and preparing for collision. It's all about your health. If you can come up with the ball, it's a bonus. But right now, it's just protect yourself, and that sounds awful even when you say it: the play is to protect yourself.

    "I understand old school, and I consider myself an old school player, as far as the way I go out and the way I was taught the game. I just don't see the sense in it."

    Matheny also said that St. Louis players are instructed not to seek out collisions, not to be "headhunters," unless they have absolutely no other way to score on a play at the plate. Still, Matheny made it clear that he's a realist. Until and unless the rules are changed, collisions will continue to happen -- and that's what Matheny hopes to prevent.

    "We're talking about the brain," Matheny said. "It's just been so shoved under the rug. I didn't want to be the poster boy for this gig, but I was able to witness in ways I can't even explain to people how that altered by life for a short period of time and changed the person that I was. It's scary. So that being said, you look at this game, can this game survive without this play? And I say absolutely. You're putting people at risk."




    while the  grown up in me must say  yeah

    the kid in me says no way

    it's our good hit from the NFL our hocky fight, race car crash

    here's some MLB Collisions



            I'am with you Zac. Leave it alone.

           They are turning football into flag football, hockey into field hockey and now baseball into beer league softball.

           How long before there are 6 bases and 2 homeplates on the field. One for the runner and one for the defensive player. Whoever gets to the base first wins.

          

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    Well, not sure how you guys might accept ideas from a former h.s. softball coach.  My first year coaching one of my girls slid into home breaking the opposing catcher's leg which sounded like a gun going off.  It was so disturbing, I decided I never wanted that to happen to my catchers.  After that they were ALWAYS instructed to set up on the first base side of home, foot just touching the plate.  They could pivot from there to get the ball from any direction, giving the plate up to a slide, but putting the tag on the player coming in.  If they were late for a tag, well they were going to be late anyway.  If they (catchers) got the ball early, they ran up the pitcher's mound side of the 3rd base baseline (to the right of the player coming in), applied a hard tag to the players left side, holding the right hand over the ball, and bounced to the infield for another throw...I never had a catcher get hurt, and this made so much sense to me.  I'm a traditionalist for the most part.  A hard play can be part of the game.  But I still cringe thinking about Pete Rose hitting that defenseless catcher in the all star game--the guy was never quite the same again.  They don't even allow that in football anymore.  Just my view.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    PS.  There will still be close,  exciting,  sliding plays at home.  This just takes away those plays where the catcher already has the ball and there's going to be a senseless collision to see if he can hang on, where one or both players can get hurt for little or no reason.  Catchers are already dinged up all the time.  I wouldn't think any two managers would want to take out their starting SS or CF on one hand, and C on the other...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    They cannot block the plate except when holding the ball or about to receive it.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    i never understood the blocking the plate thing either - the basepath should be open - maybe a rule saying one foot has to be outside of the plate area...its not an unsurmountable problem...and i also think the time has come for 500 lbs of baseball collision to be avoided

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

      The catcher should not be allowed to block the plate or obstruct the runner until he has the ball.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    Well, not sure how you guys might accept ideas from a former h.s. softball coach.  My first year coaching one of my girls slid into home breaking the opposing catcher's leg which sounded like a gun going off.  It was so disturbing, I decided I never wanted that to happen to my catchers.  After that they were ALWAYS instructed to set up on the first base side of home, foot just touching the plate.  They could pivot from there to get the ball from any direction, giving the plate up to a slide, but putting the tag on the player coming in.  If they were late for a tag, well they were going to be late anyway.  If they (catchers) got the ball early, they ran up the pitcher's mound side of the 3rd base baseline (to the right of the player coming in), applied a hard tag to the players left side, holding the right hand over the ball, and bounced to the infield for another throw...I never had a catcher get hurt, and this made so much sense to me.  I'm a traditionalist for the most part.  A hard play can be part of the game.  But I still cringe thinking about Pete Rose hitting that defenseless catcher in the all star game--the guy was never quite the same again.  They don't even allow that in football anymore.  Just my view.

     



    good job Critter

    nice read too

    looks like the NCAA made some interesting  changes in 09





    Here's the 2009 Rule:

    Collision Rule


    SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and
    violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all
    bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive
    players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.
    a. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is
    in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:

    (1) Whether the collision by the runner was avoidable (could the runner
    have reached the base without colliding) or unavoidable (the runner’s
    path to the base was blocked);

    (2) Whether the runner actually was attempting to reach the base (plate)
    or attempting to dislodge the ball from the fielder; or

    (3) Whether the runner was using flagrant contact to maliciously
    dislodge the ball.

    PENALTY—If the runner attempted to dislodge the ball, the runner shall
    be declared out even if the fielder loses possession of the
    ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return
    to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

    A.R. 1—If the fielder blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner
    may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a
    legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate.

    A.R. 2—If the flagrant or malicious contact by the runner was before the runner’s
    touching the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The
    ball shall be declared dead immediately. All other base runners shall return to the bases
    they occupied at the time of the pitch.

    A.R. 3—If the contact was after a preceding runner had touched home plate, the
    preceding runner will be ruled safe, the ball becomes dead immediately and all other base
    runners will return to the base they had last touched before the contact.

    A.R. 4—If the runner is safe and the collision is malicious, the runner shall be ruled safe
    and ejected from the game. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team
    may replace the runner.
    b. If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly
    without possession of the ball, obstruction shall be called. The umpire
    shall point and call, “That’s obstruction.” The umpire shall let the play
    continue until all play has ceased, call time and award any bases that are justified in Rule 2. The obstructed runner is awarded at least one base
    beyond the base last touched legally before the obstruction.

    A.R.—If the base runner collides flagrantly, the runner shall be declared safe on the
    obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    Despite personal experience, Ross doesn’t want to ban homeplate collisions
    FORT MYERS, Fla. — David Ross still cannot remember what happened.

    Ross was playing for the Cincinnati Reds in 2007 when he took a Mike Cameron shoulder to the jaw in a collision in front of home plate. Cameron not only knocked Ross over, he knocked his helmet off — and Ross’s head connected with home plate, appearing to briefly knock him unconscious.

    Ross stayed in the game at first — he even singled the next inning, which in retrospect is astonishing — but he eventually came out of the game and spent two weeks on the disabled list with a concussion.

    “I’ve heard stories, but I still don’t remember that day,” said Ross, now one of the catchers in camp with the Red Sox. “There’s about a 12-hour period there that I don’t recall. Other than that, I’ve been fine. That’s normal, I guess.”

    As is the case in the NFL — but to a significantly lesser degree — concussion awareness has grown in Major League Baseball in recent years. St. Louis Cardinals manager Mike Matheny — himself a former catcher whose career was brought to an end by concussions — took a strong stance on Tuesday against collisions at home plate.

    “I do believe that this game will get to the point where there will no longer be a collision at the plate,” Matheny said, “and I am 100-percent in support of that.”

    Would players be in 100-percent support of a ban on home-plate collisions? Ross has experienced the brutality firsthand, but he couldn’t say definitively what he would want baseball legislators to do.

    “I’ve gotten run over and gotten a concussion before, and it’s obviously not fun,” Ross said, “but you learn that it’s part of the game. Would you like not to get run over? Sure. That’d be great if that wasn’t an option. But it is an option, so you kind of have to accept it, and you know that going into the game — or into your career — that that’s part of it. Would you like to see guys not get run over? Sure. The more violence you can take out of any sport, the better. But that’s part of the game right now, so I have no problem with it.”

    Concussions suffered by high-profile players such as Jason Bay, Justin Morneau and David Wright have brought the issue to the forefront in recent years.

    Bay suffered two concussions from running into outfield walls. Morneau suffered his concussion when he took a knee to the head diving into second base. Wright suffered his concussion when he took a 94-mph fastball to the head.

    But there remains no more violent play in baseball than the catcher-runner collision, a car-crash of an event pitting a 200-pound man running at full speed against a 200-pound man wearing a suit of armor.

    “I didn’t want to be the poster boy for this gig, but I was able to witness in ways I can’t even explain to people how that altered my life for a short period of time and changed the person that I was,” Matheny said. “It’s scary. You look at this game: Can this game survive without this play? I say, ‘Absolutely.’”

    “I tell my wife whenever I get in a bad mood that it’s got to be some kind of blow to the head that’s causing that,” Ross said, joking but not really joking. “The last thing you want is your life after baseball to be somehow affected by something that can be avoided.”

    Concussions aren’t the only injuries that can be sustained when a runner demolishes a catcher in an effort to score. Most memorably, San Francisco Giants catcher Buster Posey broke his leg when a runner plowed straight through his leg. Cleveland Indians catcher Carlos Santana suffered a torn knee ligament when the same thing happened to him at Fenway Park.

    And Matheny’s own catcher, Yadier Molina, suffered a head injury — though not a concussion — and multiple muscle strains when a runner tried to run him over last August.

    Proponents of a rule change propose that catchers be forbidden from obstructing the basepath and that runners be forbidden from initiating contact with any fielder, be it the catcher or an infielder at one of the bases.

    But like hits to the head by defensive backs on wide receivers in football, home-plate collisions remain part of the game in baseball. A catcher who shies away from contact at home plate risks the perception of his manhood.

    “I’ve never had a manager say, ‘You’ve got to block the plate,’” Ross said. “But my mentality is that I’m going to put myself on the line for my teammates. I will do that. If it’s a play at the plate in the first inning and I can avoid a collision, I probably will, but if it’s the bottom of the ninth and a tie game, I’m going to do everything to put my body in position to block that plate if I can. That’s just the mentality I have.”

    Brian MacPherson

    http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130227-despite-personal-experience-ross-doesnt-want-to-ban-homeplate-collisions.ece
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    If the runner is dead meat, there should be a rule that the runner must slide, or avoid a collision by giving himself up.

    If he deliberately barrells into the catcher, the ball becomes dead, the runner is out, and, if less than two out, all other runners must return to the base previously occupied.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: will they should they end collisions at home plate

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    If the runner is dead meat, there should be a rule that the runner must slide, or avoid a collision by giving himself up.

    If he deliberately barrells into the catcher, the ball becomes dead, the runner is out, and, if less than two out, all other runners must return to the base previously occupied.



             Or slap the ball out of the fielders glove like Arod.

     

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