wings & brew...tito....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    wings & brew...tito....

    CLEVELAND -- Of the many reasons the Indians won an AL wild-card spot with a stunning September surge, manager Terry Francona joked that it had nothing to do with his final days in Boston.

    "We stayed away from chicken and beer," he cracked. "That helped."

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....


    That's really insulting to the team. They ordered chicken one time, and I bet there's beer in every clubhouse. And weren't alot of guys injured that season, so they were just hanging around and not playing? No one ever mentioned that. It was like they were drinking beer on the field. Really outrageous how out of control that story became. But after reading Tito's book there were other things going on there with him as well. So, not sure why the team took such a beating for nonsensical stories...or maybe that was why.

    That's my response to Tito. He should be ashamed of himself for even keeping that going.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    This is why I miss Francona.

    He knew how to deliver those one-liners.

    Who says comedy has no place in baseball?...there is no crying in baseball, but there is laughing.

    "The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you are still a rat."- Lily Tomlin

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    This is why I miss Francona.

    He knew how to deliver those one-liners.

    Who says comedy has no place in baseball?...there is no crying in baseball, but there is laughing.

    "The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you are still a rat."- Lily Tomlin



    Agree 100 percent.

    It was funny -- nothing more, nothing less.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    Chicken and beer is a very fair analogy for the lackadaisical attitude and out of shape individuals that dominated that clubhouse. It's not about how much chicken they ate, it's an apt expression for a disgraceful collapse that had part to do with the clubhouse culture. Francona made mistakes and he knows it, he has admitted it. But I think it's fine for him to joke about it now, it's a way of lancing the boil. Water under the bridge for all of us.

    What is not cool is how Francona was treated by management for his years of great work prior to one rough year - for the team and for him. But he may have a shot at the best revenge - on the field. :) 

     

         
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:


    That's really insulting to the team. They ordered chicken one time, and I bet there's beer in every clubhouse. And weren't alot of guys injured that season, so they were just hanging around and not playing? No one ever mentioned that. It was like they were drinking beer on the field. Really outrageous how out of control that story became. But after reading Tito's book there were other things going on there with him as well. So, not sure why the team took such a beating for nonsensical stories...or maybe that was why.

    That's my response to Tito. He should be ashamed of himself for even keeping that going.



    Now, maybe I am misinterpreting Tito's witticism, but I took it as tongue in cheek.  I think he sees the chicken and beer witch hunt the same way you do.  It got him fired after all.  I saw it as a jab at all the fine members of media and other folk who overshot the mark on the importance and egregiousness of the chicken and the beer.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    Its great to see folks still in denial about 2011....could it be any clearer now regarding Francona's failures to discipline the club and keep them focused on the game? Why do you think Ben blew up the club in 2012 (which was essentially the same after 2011?) Oh wait - I know...because Valentine was coaching for five months! Yea, that's it! The same people who denied that Beckett was a problem and that team chemistry was totally overrated are now singing the praise of Ben for changing the clubhouse culture....Gee, I wonder what he was trying to get rid of? 

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

     


    That's really insulting to the team. They ordered chicken one time, and I bet there's beer in every clubhouse. And weren't alot of guys injured that season, so they were just hanging around and not playing? No one ever mentioned that. It was like they were drinking beer on the field. Really outrageous how out of control that story became. But after reading Tito's book there were other things going on there with him as well. So, not sure why the team took such a beating for nonsensical stories...or maybe that was why.

    That's my response to Tito. He should be ashamed of himself for even keeping that going.

     


    http://www.stripersonline.com/t/820960/francona-smear-campaign-press-leaks

     http://deadspin.com/5848921/pitchers-hooked-on-beer-fried-chicken-and-video-games-francona-on-pills-the-boston-globes-version-of-the-2011-red-sox-collapse

     

    Rumor has it that this story was leaked intentionally by the FO, as partial validation for letting him go. Something similar appears to be happening right now with Josh Freeman of the NFL TB Bucs.

    If that is indeed the case, then IMO he is beyond criticism for his jab; that is, unless he's expected to be a martyr.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    This is why I miss Francona.

    He knew how to deliver those one-liners.

    Who says comedy has no place in baseball?...there is no crying in baseball, but there is laughing.

    "The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you are still a rat."- Lily Tomlin



    I can't say

    but their initials are KST  ;-)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Its great to see folks still in denial about 2011....could it be any clearer now regarding Francona's failures to discipline the club and keep them focused on the game? Why do you think Ben blew up the club in 2012 (which was essentially the same after 2011?) Oh wait - I know...because Valentine was coaching for five months! Yea, that's it! The same people who denied that Beckett was a problem and that team chemistry was totally overrated are now singing the praise of Ben for changing the clubhouse culture....Gee, I wonder what he was trying to get rid of? 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Fair enough Geo.  Beckett was a bad egg after all.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Its great to see folks still in denial about 2011....could it be any clearer now regarding Francona's failures to discipline the club and keep them focused on the game? Why do you think Ben blew up the club in 2012 (which was essentially the same after 2011?) Oh wait - I know...because Valentine was coaching for five months! Yea, that's it! The same people who denied that Beckett was a problem and that team chemistry was totally overrated are now singing the praise of Ben for changing the clubhouse culture....Gee, I wonder what he was trying to get rid of? 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Fair enough Geo.  Beckett was a bad egg after all.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks Space - I just cant believe people are still trying to spin these things...it happened and those of us in the know were right...just like those of us who predicted the Indians have "Nowhere to hide" this year were wrong....why try to deny it??? no one is keeping score...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    To focus on the beer and chicken is to miss the point. It wasn't so much the beer and chicken as it was the disrespect to the manager, coaches and teammates by the players involved. And, the failure of Francona and the coaches to deal with it. It certainly seems that Beckett was the leader. Things are different now.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    That's really insulting to the team. They ordered chicken one time, and I bet there's beer in every clubhouse. And weren't alot of guys injured that season, so they were just hanging around and not playing? No one ever mentioned that. It was like they were drinking beer on the field. Really outrageous how out of control that story became. But after reading Tito's book there were other things going on there with him as well. So, not sure why the team took such a beating for nonsensical stories...or maybe that was why.

    That's my response to Tito. He should be ashamed of himself for even keeping that going.

     



    Now, maybe I am misinterpreting Tito's witticism, but I took it as tongue in cheek.  I think he sees the chicken and beer witch hunt the same way you do.  It got him fired after all.  I saw it as a jab at all the fine members of media and other folk who overshot the mark on the importance and egregiousness of the chicken and the beer.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Donnie Wahlberg agrees with me. So, I'm good.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: wings & brew...tito....

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Its great to see folks still in denial about 2011....could it be any clearer now regarding Francona's failures to discipline the club and keep them focused on the game? Why do you think Ben blew up the club in 2012 (which was essentially the same after 2011?) Oh wait - I know...because Valentine was coaching for five months! Yea, that's it! The same people who denied that Beckett was a problem and that team chemistry was totally overrated are now singing the praise of Ben for changing the clubhouse culture....Gee, I wonder what he was trying to get rid of? 

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     



    Fair enough Geo.  Beckett was a bad egg after all.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks Space - I just cant believe people are still trying to spin these things...it happened and those of us in the know were right...just like those of us who predicted the Indians have "Nowhere to hide" this year were wrong....why try to deny it??? no one is keeping score...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, not so simple Geo.  I grant you Beckett was a bad egg, but, to me, most of that badness was performance-related.  I have always agreed with you that Beckett needed to get his derriere in shape, gain some core strength and flexibility.  The only way to avoid his inevitable swoons and Dl stints due to balky back/knee/whathaveyou.  But he was lazy.  The eating chicken and drinking beer in the clubhouse is just another outcropping of that laziness.  I grant you that.

    But, sorry, its not some black and white scenario.  The crash of 2011 was not because of chicken and beer in the clubhouse.  That was a very convenient symbol, but not a cause, hardly a factor.

    Thats why Tito mentioned it tongue in cheek.

     
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