Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mvpyouk20. Show mvpyouk20's posts

    Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    Just reading some reports, that the Angels might cut ties with him. Would he be worth trying to gte on this team? Has success every year, but how much would he ask for and for how many years. I think Peavy would be the cheaper option as far as years and money goes. With that said, how well would Haren fair in Boston if signed here?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    ive always liked haren. but you can never tell with a pitcher coming to the AL east. i'd like to think he can contribute for the sox but you never know.


    for the right $ hell yeah. i think hes better overall than peavy

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ive always liked haren. but you can never tell with a pitcher coming to the AL east. i'd like to think he can contribute for the sox but you never know.


    for the right $ hell yeah. i think hes better overall than peavy

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I agree they should look at Haren.  They'll look to add a top 3 starter through trade or free agency.  Josh Johnson, Cliff Lee, Lincecum, Haren, Peavy and I'm sure many others will be looked at. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    Why not get Haren AND Peavy if the length of contract is not too long?  Lester, Peavy, Buchholz, Haren, Lackey would be a pretty solid starting 5.  Doubront could then be used in a trade for a good hitting 1Bman.

    I also think the Sox should sign Hunter and Ross on a short-term deals; 1 year plus option for Hunter, 3 plus option for Ross?  And if they got both Peavy AND Haren, I would keep Ellsbury as my short-term bridge to Bradley, Jr.  Hunter is the bridge to Brentz, and if Kalish does not not develop, Ross is the bridge to Jacobs, or De La Cruz, perhaps (Margot looks like a great prospect but he is probably more than 3 years away).  Ortiz should get his 2-year, 25 million.

    I would not trade for an OFer, the farm system is deep there and the Sox have the means financially to fill in the gaps until their talent is ready, and it won't cost them that much.

    What the Sox need most is good starting pitching, and while the LA trade has provided more depth in their minor leagues on that front, they have not developed a bona fide top-end starter since Buchholz, and he is 28 years old, so they might do best to get two guys who are in their early 30's on 3-year deals to let the Websters, Lights, Barnes types develop.  You don't have to give any of them up, you don't end up with crippling contracts (like the ones they just dumped) and you still have a much smaller payroll than at the start of the 2012 season.  Meanwhile you have a contending team that has a balance of youth and experience and bridges to the next wave of young guns.

    SLU: Ells CF, Pedroia 2b, Ortiz DH, Middlebrooks 3b, Hunter RF, Ross/Kalish LF, ??Ike Davis?? 1b, Lavarnway/Salty C, Iglesias/Ciriaco SS.

    SP: Lester, Peavy, Buchholz, Haren, Lackey, De La Rosa,

    RP: Bailey, Melancon, Tazawa, Miller, Morales, Hill, Mortenson, Bard

    Bench:  Lavarnway/Salty, Iglesias/Ciriaco, Ross/Kalish, Nava and maybe Sands.  May require a clever wiaver wire deal and/or a cheap signing/minor deal to really round it out with productive part-timers.  Maybe Cashman will give Ben a few lessons on how to do this.  The Yankees usually bring in veterans to fill these roles and I would like to see the Sox do the same.

    In 2014 Bradley replaces Ells and in 2015 Bogaerts, Brentz and perhaps Jacobs or maybe De La Cruz replace Iglesias, Ross and Hunter.  Lackey is replaced by Webster, and Lester, Haren and Peavy are pushed by Light and Barnes (and whoever is the #7 pick in this winter's draft).  All the pieces fit for now and the future.  Not a spectacular team for 2013 and 2014 but competitive and certainly capable of catching lightning in a bottle.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    He would be solid #3 starter for us.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to parhunter55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why not get Haren AND Peavy if the length of contract is not too long?  Lester, Peavy, Buchholz, Haren, Lackey would be a pretty solid starting 5.  Doubront could then be used in a trade for a good hitting 1Bman.

    I also think the Sox should sign Hunter and Ross on a short-term deals; 1 year plus option for Hunter, 3 plus option for Ross?  And if they got both Peavy AND Haren, I would keep Ellsbury as my short-term bridge to Bradley, Jr.  Hunter is the bridge to Brentz, and if Kalish does not not develop, Ross is the bridge to Jacobs, or De La Cruz, perhaps (Margot looks like a great prospect but he is probably more than 3 years away).  Ortiz should get his 2-year, 25 million.

    I would not trade for an OFer, the farm system is deep there and the Sox have the means financially to fill in the gaps until their talent is ready, and it won't cost them that much.

    What the Sox need most is good starting pitching, and while the LA trade has provided more depth in their minor leagues on that front, they have not developed a bona fide top-end starter since Buchholz, and he is 28 years old, so they might do best to get two guys who are in their early 30's on 3-year deals to let the Websters, Lights, Barnes types develop.  You don't have to give any of them up, you don't end up with crippling contracts (like the ones they just dumped) and you still have a much smaller payroll than at the start of the 2012 season.  Meanwhile you have a contending team that has a balance of youth and experience and bridges to the next wave of young guns.

    SLU: Ells CF, Pedroia 2b, Ortiz DH, Middlebrooks 3b, Hunter RF, Ross/Kalish LF, ??Ike Davis?? 1b, Lavarnway/Salty C, Iglesias/Ciriaco SS.

    SP: Lester, Peavy, Buchholz, Haren, Lackey, De La Rosa,

    RP: Bailey, Melancon, Tazawa, Miller, Morales, Hill, Mortenson, Bard

    Bench:  Lavarnway/Salty, Iglesias/Ciriaco, Ross/Kalish, Nava and maybe Sands.  May require a clever wiaver wire deal and/or a cheap signing/minor deal to really round it out with productive part-timers.  Maybe Cashman will give Ben a few lessons on how to do this.  The Yankees usually bring in veterans to fill these roles and I would like to see the Sox do the same.

    In 2014 Bradley replaces Ells and in 2015 Bogaerts, Brentz and perhaps Jacobs or maybe De La Cruz replace Iglesias, Ross and Hunter.  Lackey is replaced by Webster, and Lester, Haren and Peavy are pushed by Light and Barnes (and whoever is the #7 pick in this winter's draft).  All the pieces fit for now and the future.  Not a spectacular team for 2013 and 2014 but competitive and certainly capable of catching lightning in a bottle.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with most of this except Brentz should be here before JBJ. Possibly this coming year. He did really good in the AFL and if hes putting up solid numbers come June, we could see him here.

    I dont expect they would bring him up any earlier so they can have that extra year of control, unless of course there are a ton of injuries again.

    JBJ should start out in AA with a quick call up to AAA during 2013...

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to mvpyouk20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just reading some reports, that the Angels might cut ties with him. Would he be worth trying to gte on this team? Has success every year, but how much would he ask for and for how many years. I think Peavy would be the cheaper option as far as years and money goes. With that said, how well would Haren fair in Boston if signed here?

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would team cut ties if Haren was good? Pitchers are that easy to find? Think he's not worth the money except for the Sox to pay him a John Lackey type thing.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    If they bring him up before june it starts his MLB time clock. Why do you think they wanted to wait to bring WMB up? Only reason they did is because Youk got hurt...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I dont expect they would bring him up any earlier so they can have that extra year of control

    Words of total incompetence.

    [/QUOTE]

    You'll like this, Softy:


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/bob-larson-exorcist-gay-exorcism_n_2010922.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from cassvt2004. Show cassvt2004's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    I think Haren should be one of the pitcher's the Sox consider to sign as long as it isn't for more than 2 years w/ an option.  My preference is Jake Peavy, who when healthy has better stuff and seems to have the bulldog makeup to handle Boston.  He seems to be healthy and is only 31.  Would 3 years $42 million plus performance clauses that could get it up to $50 million total outlay get it done?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to cassvt2004's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Haren should be one of the pitcher's the Sox consider to sign as long as it isn't for more than 2 years w/ an option.  My preference is Jake Peavy, who when healthy has better stuff and seems to have the bulldog makeup to handle Boston.  He seems to be healthy and is only 31.  Would 3 years $42 million plus performance clauses that could get it up to $50 million total outlay get it done?

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that Peavy will be around a 15mm 3 yr deal. thats a little scary knowing his injury history...Haren scares me a bit too with the way hes pitched this year and just turning 32.

    Both would be risky deals IMO. Id rather take a chance on a younger guy or if either Peavy or Haren take a 2 yr deal at the right dollar amount. Not sure 15mm is the right number...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    I think this board is mis reading the market for pitching. EVERYONE needs picthing, and there is such a shortage, that the market will be so high, signing a free agent pitcher will make no sense at all.

    I think Haren will command at least 3/$45 and Peavy more.

    If the SOx want to shore up their pitching they will need to do it via the trade route, and the outlay of prospects will be high.

    That is why the Farrell signing was so obvious and neccesary. The pitching talent is already on the team. The need is for some one to get Lester and Bucholz back to 18 game winners, LAcket 15 wins, and Doubtrant 12 wins. IMO there is no young pitcher in all of base ball with a higher ceiling than De la rosa. Even Aceves could be a 10-12 game winner. Bailey and Bard have as much talent as any relief pitchers in baseball, and they have proven it already. Can Farrell bring it out of them?

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    And the same argument could be used to argue against trying to trade for a starter, as well...as I think you implied.  But I am not at all sure that Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront and Aceves (who has to be signed for SOME amount of money) or Morales, or De La Rosa can be counted on to give you nearly enough starts to get you through the season.  So who picks up the extra 30-40 games?  The Sox need at least one more starter, and he ought to have the potential to be at least as good as Lester and Buchholz (when they are pitching well) or you truly have wasted your money.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to cassvt2004's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Haren should be one of the pitcher's the Sox consider to sign as long as it isn't for more than 2 years w/ an option.  My preference is Jake Peavy, who when healthy has better stuff and seems to have the bulldog makeup to handle Boston.  He seems to be healthy and is only 31.  Would 3 years $42 million plus performance clauses that could get it up to $50 million total outlay get it done?

    [/QUOTE]

    3 yrs / 42 seems a bit high considering the injury history.  I would be thrilled if we nabbed Peavy for 3 yrs / 36M though.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think this board is mis reading the market for pitching. EVERYONE needs picthing, and there is such a shortage, that the market will be so high, signing a free agent pitcher will make no sense at all.

    I think Haren will command at least 3/$45 and Peavy more.

    If the SOx want to shore up their pitching they will need to do it via the trade route, and the outlay of prospects will be high.

    That is why the Farrell signing was so obvious and neccesary. The pitching talent is already on the team. The need is for some one to get Lester and Bucholz back to 18 game winners, LAcket 15 wins, and Doubtrant 12 wins. IMO there is no young pitcher in all of base ball with a higher ceiling than De la rosa. Even Aceves could be a 10-12 game winner. Bailey and Bard have as much talent as any relief pitchers in baseball, and they have proven it already. Can Farrell bring it out of them?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that due to market conditions (low supply / high demand), the price tag for free agent pitchers may exceed their value above replacement.

    I also agree that should this happen, the Sox would be best served staying out of a bidding war....This isnt a bad fall-back:

    Lester

    Buchholz

    De La Rosa 

    Doubront

    Lackey

     

    But I would offer Peavy 3 yrs / 33 (willing to go up to 3 yrs / 36) and cross my fingers.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to cassvt2004's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Haren should be one of the pitcher's the Sox consider to sign as long as it isn't for more than 2 years w/ an option.  My preference is Jake Peavy, who when healthy has better stuff and seems to have the bulldog makeup to handle Boston.  He seems to be healthy and is only 31.  Would 3 years $42 million plus performance clauses that could get it up to $50 million total outlay get it done?

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that Peavy will be around a 15mm 3 yr deal. thats a little scary knowing his injury history...Haren scares me a bit too with the way hes pitched this year and just turning 32.

    Both would be risky deals IMO. Id rather take a chance on a younger guy or if either Peavy or Haren take a 2 yr deal at the right dollar amount. Not sure 15mm is the right number...

    [/QUOTE]


    I'll tell you what scares me a helluva lot more than Haren's age scares you and that's depending on Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz to operate as our Nos. 1 and two pitchers next season.  They just don't seem equipped to take on that role and both were pretty miserable this past season when we needed them to perform very badly.  Instead, they DID perform very badly, miserable in fact.  Haren and Peavy are tough competitors and not a couple of candy as@es like Buch and Les.  Risky?  You hit the nail on the head on that.  Yes it wou ld be a risk to go after those two and sign them to three year contracts, but the idea of Doubrant and Lackey backing up Buchholz and Lester smell like fourth place to me.  We may just have to roll the dice this winter if we want the Red Sox  to get off the floor an back in contention.  That, plus a first baseman with some real sock, a good reliever and another decent outfielder AFTER we resign Ross.

    Think Cherington is up to this?  I don't!!!!!!  Hope I'm wrong but I have absolutely no confidence in his ability---sad to say.

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to cassvt2004's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Haren should be one of the pitcher's the Sox consider to sign as long as it isn't for more than 2 years w/ an option.  My preference is Jake Peavy, who when healthy has better stuff and seems to have the bulldog makeup to handle Boston.  He seems to be healthy and is only 31.  Would 3 years $42 million plus performance clauses that could get it up to $50 million total outlay get it done?

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that Peavy will be around a 15mm 3 yr deal. thats a little scary knowing his injury history...Haren scares me a bit too with the way hes pitched this year and just turning 32.

    Both would be risky deals IMO. Id rather take a chance on a younger guy or if either Peavy or Haren take a 2 yr deal at the right dollar amount. Not sure 15mm is the right number...

    [/QUOTE]


    I'll tell you what scares me a helluva lot more than Haren's age scares you and that's depending on Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz to operate as our Nos. 1 and two pitchers next season.  They just don't seem equipped to take on that role and both were pretty miserable this past season when we needed them to perform very badly.  Instead, they DID perform very badly, miserable in fact.  Haren and Peavy are tough competitors and not a couple of candy as@es like Buch and Les.  Risky?  You hit the nail on the head on that.  Yes it wou ld be a risk to go after those two and sign them to three year contracts, but the idea of Doubrant and Lackey backing up Buchholz and Lester smell like fourth place to me.  We may just have to roll the dice this winter if we want the Red Sox  to get off the floor an back in contention.  That, plus a first baseman with some real sock, a good reliever and another decent outfielder AFTER we resign Ross.

    Think Cherington is up to this?  I don't!!!!!!  Hope I'm wrong but I have absolutely no confidence in his ability---sad to say.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    how can 2012 be any indication of bens abilities??? he was handcuffed by theos bad moves when he first got the job! also he was given a spending limit by ownership he had to work within the confines of. wasnt allowed to pick his own manager etc....

    hes done a good job so far with trades and some signings. but this offseason we will really see how good a GM he is. he has financial and roster flexibility like to other team. the polar opposite of last season. given what he had to deal/work with he did an above average job last season. now that he has all the freedom in the world he can actually make moves.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Would Dan Haren be a good option for next season?

    It's all in the contract, but I think Haren is a good target.

     

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