In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million? : Please don't tell me you actually believe Jeter was worth 3/51.
Posted by JB-3
Posted by JB-3
No I don't think he was
Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 1:44 PM EDT
- ctredsoxfanhugh
- Posts: 3287
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In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?: -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 1:50 PM EDT
- JB-3
- Posts: 2206
- First: 12/28/2010
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In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?:In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million? : No I don't think he was
Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh
Ok, you had me worried for a minute there. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 2:11 PM EDT
- fivekatz
- Posts: 5134
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 8/26/2012
The longer the term is on a closer contract the greater the likelihood that contract bites a team in the tail.
Now the market for relief pitching in general took a strange turn. The Benoit deal rather than being viewed as a over reach by the Tigers was adopted as a market setter and the money that went to set-up men went through the roof. This happened in spite of a very deep market where in strict supply and demand terms the balance of supply should have held contracts down. Just another example of sports franchises being there own worst enemies.
2012 is supposed to pretty deep with closer profiles. Conventional wisdom would say that supply should hold down duration and/or annual compensation.
Until the RS see what that market will be speculation about Papelbon will have little relation to what the RS end up doing IMO. But you can bet Epstein wishes that Daniel Bard was more inspiring because the odds on long term deals for closer are pretty poor. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 2:17 PM EDT
- Ice-Cream
- Posts: 2996
- First: 6/21/2008
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Isn't Papelbon's agent, Scott Boras? If so, then Boras will demand at least 4-year, $52 million. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 2:35 PM EDT
- fivekatz
- Posts: 5134
- First: 9/18/2009
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In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?:Isn't Papelbon's agent, Scott Boras? If so, then Boras will demand at least 4-year, $52 million.Papelbon is represented by the Levinson Brothers.
Posted by Ice-Cream -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 2:41 PM EDT
- Sveltics
- Posts: 167
- First: 5/29/2008
- Last: 5/24/2012
No way...so few closers have had productive numbers after age 33. For better or worse, Bard is your closer for the next 3 years.
You have to budget for the entire bullpen. If you cant get the lead to the closer, it dont matter who your closer is.
$45 million can buy you 3 solid bridge pitchers, if you want to spread the risk out in the free agent market, or by trade, IMHO. -
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 5:12 PM EDT
- jimdaytona
- Posts: 283
- First: 3/23/2006
- Last: 8/31/2011
Bard could never replace Paps as the closer. Three yesrs at 40 mil tops for Paps -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 5:59 PM EDT
- JB-3
- Posts: 2206
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In Response to Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?:Has Papelbon ever been on the DL, ever since he took over the closers role? Arm problems, I cant remember if it has happened.
Posted by bobbysuI'm not sure about a DL stint, but he battled shoulder weakness early in his career. Even after being moved to the closer role, there was still talk about it for a couple years. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 6:27 PM EDT
- dannycater
- Posts: 10017
- First: 4/12/2005
- Last: 5/17/2013
Papelbon has been terrific, I think his fastball is better than recent years, and he's back to his dominator self. He's second to Mr. Rivera, but he's about as good and efficient as they come in the closer role. I sign him for whatever he wants...3 years, 51 million, then just use the Lackey example, Clement example, Crawford example, etc of throwing big money around when the Sox feel compelled too. But the sox history has been to shortchange those who are veterans, who are long-time Sox.. Papelbon will get jobbed, and leave, and that's wrong. I don't think Bard has Papelbon's "intenstinal fortitude" to be a long-time effective closer. He has shown more signs that he can be shaky. Papelbon? He is having lesser fullpack type saves, but in the all and all, he gets the job done. I want that in the Sox pen as long as we can have him. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/30/2011 6:33 PM EDT
- fivekatz
- Posts: 5134
- First: 9/18/2009
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Actually the talk about Papelbon becoming a starter was because he suffered a subluxation of his valuable right shoulder. That in so many words meant the joint popped out and back in. The RS felt that his workload could be better managed as a starter and they saw a lot of potential there.
While urban legend at this point has it that he was converted to a closer because of the shoulder, the reality was that Papelbon went to ST tabbed to be a starter and he went to the RS and said his heart was in closing. He was after all a closer in college and while the RS were grooming him as a starter in Pawtucket that is not an unusual path to take for a closer. Riveria was a starter in the minors.
In 2007 Francona worked Papelbon with varying caution. His use on mutliple days was limited but he did get comfortable with using Papelbon to get 4-5 outs often, something Paplebon has continued to be asked to do more often than most pf his peer group.
The subluxation certainly appears 4 full seasons later to be in the rear view mirror. He has been pretty much a horse since the September 2006 scare.
IMO part of Papelbon' 2009-2010 performance which was below the standards he set from 2006-2008 were because of a change in his mechanics which was supposed to take some stress off of his shoulder to extend his career.
Whether the result of the changes or not in 2009 and 2010 he had a slightly flatter fastball causing more pitches out of the strike zone to be taken. That got him behind in counts taking away his splitter which with 2 strikes was death for hitters. This led him to surrender more BB's and for him to be forced into throwing the flatter fastball in fastball counts.
The biggest single difference for Papelbon this year is BB. In 09 and 10 his SO/BB ratio was 3.17/2.71. Right now it is 10.33. In 2008 it was 9.63 and before that it was in the 5 range.
If I had to venture a guess, Curt Young worked with Jonathan and they tweaked the mechanical changes Farrell had previously worked on with Papelbon.
This will be a tough call because few things are as bad as having a failed closer on a big contract. Not having a very solid closer however is close.
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 7:59 AM EDT
- cpjohn1
- Posts: 3339
- First: 2/10/2005
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3 years, yes. I don't care about the money, as it's not mine. Pay him whatever you want. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 11:42 AM EDT
- slakrking
- Posts: 115
- First: 8/13/2009
- Last: 4/15/2013
If Rivera struggles the rest of the year Papelbon will get his $$$ either from the Sox or if not, the yankees -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 11:53 AM EDT
- beavis
- Posts: 4478
- First: 12/13/2004
- Last: 7/5/2012
What is the free-agent market for closers in 2012?
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 1:28 PM EDT
- SpacemanEephus
- Posts: 10471
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 5/17/2013
I would have no issue with 3/15. It is the length, not the yearly pay, that would be the sticking point for me. And, surely, Scotty B. will be pushing for more than a 3 year deal. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 1:35 PM EDT
- beavis
- Posts: 4478
- First: 12/13/2004
- Last: 7/5/2012
Spaceman: Bora$$ and Paps want to "set the bar for closers" remember the Mario situation, and Nathan told Paps to just shut up...
3/15 I would do, but he is probably looking for 5/6 years...he will use Mets closer Frankie to reference as a comparable... -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 5/31/2011 9:34 PM EDT
- GuessMyName
- Posts: 15
- First: 10/10/2010
- Last: 11/27/2012
Crapelbon?! -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/1/2011 2:03 AM EDT
- kimsaysthis
- Posts: 4801
- First: 4/14/2010
- Last: 2/26/2013
Let me just say I love having him on the team, and wouldn't want to face him on another team. Besides there aren't many proven closers in his category. And like I've said in another post, I loved the "Doubt me" shirt he wore in spring training. It's definitely working for him. He seems to have a natural instinct for the closer role, which I'm guessing is not easy.
I believe he loves being a part of the Red Sox, and wants to continue here. I hope they are able to work out a deal to sign him. -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/1/2011 11:49 AM EDT
- sjc52
- Posts: 21
- First: 7/4/2005
- Last: 6/29/2011
No. Actually, I'd wait until the end of the season and see how Pap finishes this season. I'd begin with a 2 year offer at 13million. Hey, if we can afford Crawford we can certainly afford to pay Pap, assuming he shows his closing skills throughout the rest of this season -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/1/2011 11:55 AM EDT
- the--yazzer
- Posts: 44
- First: 5/26/2011
- Last: 6/2/2011
NO, and if i had my way, THEO wouldn't be involved in the negotiations.
but, he will be, and it will end up a bad deal for BOSTON.
THEO'S track record speaks for itself.
FIRE THEO! -
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/1/2011 2:20 PM EDT
- PTERODACTYL
- Posts: 1
- First: 9/24/2012
- Last: 9/24/2012
>If Jeter is worth 3/51
But Jeter isnt worth that kind of money and neither is Papelbon -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/2/2011 10:15 AM EDT
- john1223
- Posts: 8
- First: 12/14/2007
- Last: 6/2/2011
HELL NO,NO,NO,NO,NO C,MON MAN HE'S LOST IT. LETS GET REAL PEOPLE. HE HAD 2 GREAT YRS AND NOW HE SUCKS AS YOU CANNOT DEPEND ON HIM LIKE WE USED TO.
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Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/2/2011 3:11 PM EDT
- Mickkey
- Posts: 3
- First: 7/27/2009
- Last: 3/25/2013
no...he'll be in the crapper as soon as he signs a big contract...count on it! -
Re: Would you sign Papelbon for 3 years/$45 million?
posted at 6/2/2011 6:01 PM EDT
- trouts
- Posts: 2441
- First: 12/10/2005
- Last: 5/13/2013
I'd wait. Last year was not a good year for him and he certainly cannot blow people away like he used to. The clean innings a few and far between but the one big hesitation that I have is that Bard hasn't been that impressive either. I guess that at some point he'll have to be replaced but clearly Jenks isn't the answer either. Maybe there is someone else out there who could do the job.