Yankees to sign Tanaka

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

     


    Vic batted .294/.801 this year while playing GG caliber RF for a World Series winning team. This year he earned his keep. I was (and still am) against the third year of his contract, but they did it anyway. Tanaka will still have four more years after his third year, even if he stinks.



    VIC won the AL Gold Glove



    I thought I said that.



    But when Jeter won the AL GG it didn't mean anything.



    Jeter was never a great defensive SS. If you look at other defensive metrics you will see that. In my mind he was a + SS overall because he made clutch plays when he had to and was a significant offensive threat. You cannot compare Vic's defense with Jeter's, even when Jeter was in his prime.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:


    Go ahead you can say it.

    One of the 5 best shortstops of all time.

    As painful as it is.



    here ya go:  http://grantland.com/features/the-tragedy-derek-jeter-defense/

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Where is Pike when a good baseball debate is taking place?

    Tongue Out

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

     


    Vic batted .294/.801 this year while playing GG caliber RF for a World Series winning team. This year he earned his keep. I was (and still am) against the third year of his contract, but they did it anyway. Tanaka will still have four more years after his third year, even if he stinks.



    VIC won the AL Gold Glove



    I thought I said that.



    But when Jeter won the AL GG it didn't mean anything.



    GG's mean very little...sometimes the guy with the best defense wins it.  Sometimes the popular guy who has horrible range but makes few errors gets it.

    Jeter was an above average defender in his prime. But he was no Visquel, he was good enough that with his popularity he won a couple GG.  He had great hands, very sure and made few errors...but guys like Omar just got to more balls than Jeter (and pretty much everyone) ever did.

    Jeter is still one of the best shortstops  Players of all time. 



    Go ahead you can say it.

    One of the 5 best shortstops of all time.

    As painful as it is.



    I'd say the best ss ever.  This is weighing his offense, and post season production into the equation as well.  If we were talking about defense alone, then Jeter was an average SS over the course of his career.

    Of courese this doesn't come without saying he wasn't a great defensive player, this is in no way a knock. 

    The best players in highschool play SS, the best and/or most athletic play SS in college....the best of those guys stick there in the majors.  

    A below average defensive SS in the major leagues would still be a top defender at most other positions.   So to say Jeters defense was average at that position is still saying he was one of the better athletes in the entire league, and while i think his defense is over rated I do think it was above average in his prime...which is what people forget about him.

    I think his last GG was the one he really truly didn't deserve, you can make a good case for the other ones...and that is what I think a lot of the Jeter haters focus on. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    But when Jeter won the AL GG it didn't mean anything.




    The difference is, Victorino deserved his GG, Jeter did not.

    I know that is going to sound biased to you, but it's not.  It can be backed up with stats.  Stats that you don't like perhaps, but stats that very strongly support what I'm saying.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I think you are missing the point.  The Yankees didn't go after Darvish last year because they didn't prioritize pitching and they had committed themselves to staying under the luxury tax within a few years.

    The point is....the Yankees are now desperate for pitching, and have obviously BLOWN UP their plans.....which to me is not to far away from having zero plan at all. 

     

    +1

     



    Anthony Rieber 12s
    Cashman: Yankees have scouted tanaka since 2007. Scouted 15 games this year plus WBC and playoffs. "This has been a long drawn out process"

     

     

    almost sounds morre like a long term plan

    rather than a desperate reaction

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    almost sounds morre like a long term plan

    rather than a desperate reaction




    As I said in the other thread Zac, keep telling yourself that.

    For one, we all know that Cashman cannot be believed.

    For two, this entire Yankees offseason has smelled of desperation.

    If you ask me, the Yankees, and their fanbase, are trying too hard.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    I think you are missing the point.  The Yankees didn't go after Darvish last year because they didn't prioritize pitching and they had committed themselves to staying under the luxury tax within a few years.

    The point is....the Yankees are now desperate for pitching, and have obviously BLOWN UP their plans.....which to me is not to far away from having zero plan at all. 

     

     

     

    +1

     

     



    Anthony Rieber 12s
    Cashman: Yankees have scouted tanaka since 2007. Scouted 15 games this year plus WBC and playoffs. "This has been a long drawn out process"

     

     

     

    almost sounds morre like a long term plan

    rather than a desperate reaction

     




    you know what they say, about the best laid plansTongue Out 

     

     Zac, I find it hard to believe you dont think the NYY paid what they had to, because they were desperate for pitching. Hard to form a long term plan, for a guy who has never thrown a pitch, in mlb. Since when has scounting, turned into a proven player?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Where is Pike when a good baseball debate is taking place?

    Tongue Out

     

      hopefully off getting his meds schedule back on track...


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:



    I think she referred to him as a statue.

    I tend to believe that Jeter gets less love in Boston than anywhere else so I take any criticism on this site with a grain of salt.

    Personally I think Bill James is fos.



    Bill James revolutionized the way teams think about talent.  He's published numerous books on the subject and is a senior adviser on talent to the reigning World Series Champions.  Prior to the 2013 season John Henry said that one mistake the FO had made was getting away from James' way of thinking.  The team then went out and signed players that fit the profile James has traditionally supported and everyone was questioning... until October.

    What're your credentials to be criticizing him?

    That giant sucking sound you hear is TWM's credibility going down the drain.



    Bill James is human he like everyone else has a bias.

    High exalted mystic ruler of the Derek Jeter hate club.

    And actually why he is so revered in Boston.

    A rotten shame he can't keep Jeter out of Cooperstown.



    James does have a bias.  He's a long-time KC Royals fan. 

    But getting back on topic, he uses stats to make a point and the point he made with Jeter is that Jeter isn't THAT GOOD a SS.  And in your biased opinion (because EVERYONE has a bias) James is FOS because he exposed Jeter for what he is defensively. 

    ooookkkkk. 

    Realistically, Jeter is a steady SS with average (or less) defensive skills who makes up for it with his bat and with leadership ability.  He may very well make it to Cooperstown but it won't be because of his defense. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

    c'mon FJ, get with the program...because you're Red Sox fans!!Tongue OutWink


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

     




    Yankees being the Yankees.  I don't think they know how to be any other way

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I think you are missing the point.  The Yankees didn't go after Darvish last year because they didn't prioritize pitching and they had committed themselves to staying under the luxury tax within a few years.

    The point is....the Yankees are now desperate for pitching, and have obviously BLOWN UP their plans.....which to me is not to far away from having zero plan at all. 

     

    +1

     



    Anthony Rieber 12s
    Cashman: Yankees have scouted tanaka since 2007. Scouted 15 games this year plus WBC and playoffs. "This has been a long drawn out process"

     

     

    almost sounds morre like a long term plan

    rather than a desperate reaction



    I bet if any other team signed him you would have heard something similiar.  he has been a high profile arm on the international market for a while....most teams have scouted a ton of his games. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Zac, I find it hard to believe you dont think the NYY paid what they had to, because they were desperate for pitching.



    Y is it desperate and not just filling  a need ?

    is it in your opin because they did it  the yankee way

    (they went after the best FA option available)

     

    Hard to form a long term plan, for a guy who has never thrown a pitch, in mlb.

     

     

     

    Thoughts following the Masahiro Tanaka signing
     By Mike Axisa.

    1. Might as well just start with this to get it out of the way: I think the contract is more than reasonable and probably a bargain when you consider what other high-end 25-year-olds would get on the open market. No, he’s never pitched in MLB, but it’s not like they plucked him out of a beer league. The contract is expensive, don’t get me wrong, but as Hal Steinbrenner said yesterday, “market value is what one or more teams are willing to pay today.” Several other clubs were reportedly willing to pay Tanaka upwards of $20M+ annually, so the Yankees weren’t out in their own little world with this offer. It’s comforting knowing other teams believed in his talent enough to offer similar dollars. I’d feel differently if Tanaka was a few years older but the team is (theoretically) buying almost all of his peak years since he just turned 25 in November. If he pitches like prime Dan Haren (the most common comp) from ages 25-28 and then opts out, it will have been a brilliant signing. It’s the next contract, the one that comes after the opt-out and involves buying a whole bunch of decline years, that will be the really scary one.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    Zac, I find it hard to believe you dont think the NYY paid what they had to, because they were desperate for pitching.



    Y is it desperate and not just filling  a need ?

    is it in your opin because they did it  the yankee way

    (they went after the best FA option available)

     

    Hard to form a long term plan, for a guy who has never thrown a pitch, in mlb.

     

     

     

    Thoughts following the Masahiro Tanaka signing
     By Mike Axisa.

    1. Might as well just start with this to get it out of the way: I think the contract is more than reasonable and probably a bargain when you consider what other high-end 25-year-olds would get on the open market. No, he’s never pitched in MLB, but it’s not like they plucked him out of a beer league. The contract is expensive, don’t get me wrong, but as Hal Steinbrenner said yesterday, “market value is what one or more teams are willing to pay today.” Several other clubs were reportedly willing to pay Tanaka upwards of $20M+ annually, so the Yankees weren’t out in their own little world with this offer. It’s comforting knowing other teams believed in his talent enough to offer similar dollars. I’d feel differently if Tanaka was a few years older but the team is (theoretically) buying almost all of his peak years since he just turned 25 in November. If he pitches like prime Dan Haren (the most common comp) from ages 25-28 and then opts out, it will have been a brilliant signing. It’s the next contract, the one that comes after the opt-out and involves buying a whole bunch of decline years, that will be the really scary one.

     



    Because he has yet to throw a pitch in MLB, ALE. Signing him was filling a need, the contract is what was desperation. Everyone can write, tweet and post, all they want about Tanaka. Bob has it right. Anyone who says they know otherwise, is lying, crazy or both.

    • Hfxsoxnut
    • Posts: 10310
    • First: 5/30/2008
    • Last: 1/23/2014

    We're not going to have a clue what Tanaka's true level/value is until he actually pitches this year, folks.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

     




     I don't think they know how to be any other way. It's what they've become.

     


    I agree. And in defense of the Yankees (I can't believe I'm saying THAT!!) it's that way because their revenues allow them to do it.  They can throw it against the wall and if it sticks there they go with it, and if it doesn't they release the player and move on to another.  In fairness, the Sox can do the same thing to a lesser degree. 

    That's the advantage of being a big market team vs a small market team.  That's also what makes it so amazing when a small market team is successful. 

    As little as I like to admit it because the Rays are my LEAST favorite team (yes, below the Yankees now), the Rays have become the poster child for building a solid team with limited revenue.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to S5's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

     




     I don't think they know how to be any other way. It's what they've become.

     

     


    I agree. And in defense of the Yankees (I can't believe I'm saying THAT!!) it's that way because their revenues allow them to do it.  They can throw it against the wall and if it sticks there they go with it, and if it doesn't they release the player and move on to another.  In fairness, the Sox can do the same thing to a lesser degree. 

     

    That's the advantage of being a big market team vs a small market team.  That's also what makes it so amazing when a small market team is successful. 

    As little as I like to admit it because the Rays are my LEAST favorite team (yes, below the Yankees now), the Rays have become the poster child for building a solid team with limited revenue.  



    Because of all their first round picks. It won't last. Eventually, they'll have to decide, if they want to be spenders or not, to compete in the ALE. I don't see it, as they don't have to fan base to generate the revenue

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

     



    +1

     

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

     



    A statue?

     

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

     




    I hope you're kiddding, twm

     

     



    Ok top three.

     

     



    you forgot the zero, maybe?UndecidedSealed

     




    J,

    I'll leave you with this.

    The player considered to be the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play is Rogers Hornsby (Rajah).

    Good chance that both Cano and Pedroia are better fielders than Hornsby but neither will ever measure up offensively, not even close.

    By the time Jeter hangs them up he will have more hits than any other shortstop ever to play the game.

    Despite what you may think of his glove what he has accomplished will keep him in the debate for the greatest ever, without question in the top 5 of all time.

    Later have a good evening.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Ervin Santana's asking price is reportedly in the 60 million dollar range.

    Santana is about a 3WAR player, which is probably what Tanaka will be.

    Some team might get the same level of production out of Santana than they would from Tanaka for 1/3 of the price.

     

    If I'm wrong and Santana is better....that makes NY's deal look even worst.

    If I'm wrong and Tanaka is a stud, then he leaves NY in 4 years and the Yankees would have paid appx market value.  

    If anytime a guy has to exceed expectations or reach his likely ceiling for a deal to pay off.....then you can't really walk away from the table saying you got a good deal unless you are dreaming on the upside.

    At the end of the day the NY fans are dreaming on the upside.....keep dreaming my friends. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    like s5 said earlier....he doesn't even come with a "gyroball".....

    2014 prediction:

    8-11 4.28 ERA. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    JThugs on Yankees: 'We still got the belt'


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    Phrases like "bad contract," "overpay," and "albatross" are meaningless words to the Yankees...I don't know why we bother characterizing anything they do in those terms. They've reached the doomsday phase with A-Rod (still on the hook for 3 more seasons after the suspension) and are about to be paying a ton of money for the declines of Sabathia and Teixeira, and they're not fazed a single bit.

    c'mon FJ, get with the program...because you're Red Sox fans!!Tongue OutWink





    LOL jetes

    and +1 flap

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    JThugs on Yankees: 'We still got the belt'





    hahaha....where is andrew???

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     sounds morre like a long term plan

    rather than a desperate reaction




    As I said in the other thread Zac, keep telling yourself that.

    For one, we all know that Cashman cannot be believed.

    no more of less than any other GM

    including when they say what they offered

     

    For two, this entire Yankees offseason has smelled of desperation.

    If you ask me, the Yankees, and their fanbase, are trying too hard.

     after pondering that for a while

    I came to the conclusion

    I have no idea what that means ms kimmi ;-)




     
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