Yankees to sign Tanaka

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



    Mostly true

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



    Mostly true



    I think most of us who don't like the Tanaka deal for the Yankees would hate it for the Red Sox as well.  Of course some of us are Homers and would find a reason to love it, or would only look at everything good written about Tanaka etc etc etc.  Every team has though homers, we are no different. 

    So I would say mostly true is a fair assessment. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.

     




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

     

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



    Mostly true



    I think most of us who don't like the Tanaka deal for the Yankees would hate it for the Red Sox as well.  Of course some of us are Homers and would find a reason to love it, or would only look at everything good written about Tanaka etc etc etc.  Every team has though homers, we are no different. 

    So I would say mostly true is a fair assessment. 



     That's why the "sour grapes" label,  isn't accurate.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    have a great weekend everyone!!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    have a great weekend everyone!!!



    you too jete.  stay warm.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     I will trust what the most widely regarded perception of what he will be will come to light.  He will be a middle of the rotation starter.  



    Wouldn't you agree that the most common comparison is to Kuroda? Only younger and throws a touch harder? Is that a mid rotation starter?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     I will trust what the most widely regarded perception of what he will be will come to light.  He will be a middle of the rotation starter.  



    Wouldn't you agree that the most common comparison is to Kuroda? Only younger and throws a touch harder? Is that a mid rotation starter?

    ]

    Why is Kuroda the most common comparision? does that mean he is going to put up Kurodas numbers for the next 10 years?

    He could be, he could not be...it seems more likely to me that he is not a top of the rotation starter but he is good starting pitcher.  Will his velocity hold up on less days rest? will MLB hitters pick up on his flat fastball better than japanese hitters and punish him?  Will MLB hitters get on base more against him and make him work from the stretch more (reportedly Tanaka has had issues at times working out of the stretch. 

    So no I wouldn't agree.  There seems to be a discrepency on what he is, in the end we will have to wait and see. 

    If you are implying he is more than a mid rotation starter then you are implying he is a top of the rotation starter....is he really expected to be one of the best pitchers in baseball next year?  His stats were impressive but what if a 22 year old pitcher put those stats up in double A here in America?  we would think he is really good and some would say he's an ace, but others would want to see him do it against better competition and often those guys flame out....so I'm not going by Tanakas stats I'm going by what I've heard about him....and the reports are mixed.  All for a guy who hasn't thrown 1 MLB pitch.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     I will trust what the most widely regarded perception of what he will be will come to light.  He will be a middle of the rotation starter.  



    Wouldn't you agree that the most common comparison is to Kuroda? Only younger and throws a touch harder? Is that a mid rotation starter?

    ]

    Why is Kuroda the most common comparision? does that mean he is going to put up Kurodas numbers for the next 10 years?

    He could be, he could not be...it seems more likely to me that he is not a top of the rotation starter but he is good starting pitcher.  Will his velocity hold up on less days rest? will MLB hitters pick up on his flat fastball better than japanese hitters and punish him?  Will MLB hitters get on base more against him and make him work from the stretch more (reportedly Tanaka has had issues at times working out of the stretch. 

    So no I wouldn't agree.  There seems to be a discrepency on what he is, in the end we will have to wait and see. 

    If you are implying he is more than a mid rotation starter then you are implying he is a top of the rotation starter....is he really expected to be one of the best pitchers in baseball next year?  His stats were impressive but what if a 22 year old pitcher put those stats up in double A here in America?  we would think he is really good and some would say he's an ace, but others would want to see him do it against better competition and often those guys flame out....so I'm not going by Tanakas stats I'm going by what I've heard about him....and the reports are mixed.  All for a guy who hasn't thrown 1 MLB pitch.




    So who else is he compared to more? He also doesn't need to last 10 years, only 7. Kershaw has to last too btw. What if he doesn't, how good will Kershaw be if he loses velocity? Or Lester? Its all a gamble and an unknown when it comes to pitchers health and velocity. Also, if he loses velocity, I and I think many would compare him to Kuroda with the SAME velocity. Or Kuroda=decreased velocity Tanaka. Not including their heritage, they are still quite similar.

    A top 15 pitcher is what I expect. What would that be called? Top of the rotation. Number 1 number, number 2, ACE? I don't quite frankly know anymore. But thats what I expect. A 3.5-4.0 WAR pitcher. Some years more. Some years less. Call it what you wish. But mid rotation is not what I would call it. And I have read NOTHING in the scouting reports that make me think he will not be around that good. Kuroda-Sanchez-Wacha type. Thats probably better then top 15 btw.

    I have seen so many players from Japan with this kind of rep succeed that I don't compare it to AA. I think Japan-MLB is very predictable actually. Yes there are differences in games between the two. But the good Japanese pitchers have adjusted. Name a pitcher from Japan with even an equal reputation that failed to adjust?

    I like to look at video myself and judge myself. I see a fastball with a bit of life. A plus slider. A plus-plus change. And a get me over Wacha curve ball. With very good, but not impeccable command and very tough makeup. I like that. I want me some of that. Yankees got it. Over paid a touch. Like most free agent signings are over paid. But they over payed for a 25 year old free agent with no compensation. Which I think I would have too.

    Thats my take. We disagree. Its cool. As you said, we will see.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



        Simply not true.

        We have six starters but two of them s_uck, and one can't stay healthy.

         I would have loved to see the Sox land Tanaka.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



        Simply not true.

        We have six starters but two of them s_uck, and one can't stay healthy.

         I would have loved to see the Sox land Tanaka.




    @ $23MM per x 7???

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

     

     

    The Yankees Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    This section could also be named “Red Sox Don’t Go After Masahiro Tanaka” or “Ben Cherington Watches Brian Cashman Turn Into the Balding 50 Year Old at a Strip Club.”

    I like Tanaka. I’ve watched the same highlight videos as everyone else, and yes, that splitter is nasty. But 7 years, 175 mil? Really? For a Japanese pitcher who’s thrown more innings through age 24 than any pitcher has in the MLB since Frank Tanana in the seventies?


    I get it. The Yankees don’t
    have a strong farm system to wait on. Hiroki Kuroda is about to get his AARP magazine subscription and CC Sabathia has been shockingly ineffective. They were looking at their AL East opponents and realized that they were on the outs, and figured, screw the luxury tax, let’s go all in. And they have gone all in. Half a billion on Jacoby Ellsbury, Carlos Beltran, Brian McCann, and now Tanaka.

    As a Red Sox fan, I’m fine with the Yankees getting Tanaka. Partially because I want to see Tanaka in action, and in the AL East we’ll see a whole lot of him. But also, because he won’t have to play for Boston. While on the Dice-K/Darvish spectrum he’s probably closer to Yu, the Red Sox didn’t need to have to take that chance, especially with how expertly they’ve toed the luxury tax line, and how promising their pitching prospects look.

    The Tanaka signing is a definite win for the Yankees in the s hort term. But the Sox made the right move in doing nothing. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



        Simply not true.

        We have six starters but two of them s_uck, and one can't stay healthy.

         I would have loved to see the Sox land Tanaka.



    Lester/Lackey/Buccholz/Peavy/Doubront/Dempster (+ Workman/Barnes/Owens/Raynaudo/Britton in the wings). In that group the only guy I don't like in a Sox uniform is Dempster. By my count thats 10 potential SP. Not really sure paying Tanaka $22M+ for 7 years is a smart move for our team. The Yankees were desperate; they had to do it. We aren't.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

     

    The Yankees Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    This section could also be named “Red Sox Don’t Go After Masahiro Tanaka” or “Ben Cherington Watches Brian Cashman Turn Into the Balding 50 Year Old at a Strip Club.”

    I like Tanaka. I’ve watched the same highlight videos as everyone else, and yes, that splitter is nasty. But 7 years, 175 mil? Really? For a Japanese pitcher who’s thrown more innings through age 24 than any pitcher has in the MLB since Frank Tanana in the seventies?


    I get it. The Yankees don’t
    have a strong farm system to wait on. Hiroki Kuroda is about to get his AARP magazine subscription and CC Sabathia has been shockingly ineffective. They were looking at their AL East opponents and realized that they were on the outs, and figured, screw the luxury tax, let’s go all in. And they have gone all in. Half a billion on Jacoby Ellsbury, Carlos Beltran, Brian McCann, and now Tanaka.

    As a Red Sox fan, I’m fine with the Yankees getting Tanaka. Partially because I want to see Tanaka in action, and in the AL East we’ll see a whole lot of him. But also, because he won’t have to play for Boston. While on the Dice-K/Darvish spectrum he’s probably closer to Yu, the Red Sox didn’t need to have to take that chance, especially with how expertly they’ve toed the luxury tax line, and how promising their pitching prospects look.

    The Tanaka signing is a definite win for the Yankees in the s hort term. But the Sox made the right move in doing nothing. 



    Sabathia's conditioning program and his weight loss are going to improve his performance this year IMO. I believe he will have a comeback year for the Yankees. I also think that Tanaka, by August once teams have seen him a few times, will show his true colors, one way or the other. So his August/Sept ERA will be a good indicator of his worth...IMO.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:

    The Yankee payroll was at $185 mil. before they signed Tanaka for $23 mil. That means that $19 mil. of that $23 mil. was penalized at 50% which is $9.5 mil. So in effect Tanaka is costing the Yankees $23 + $9.5 mil. = $32.5 mil. in 2014. Yes that is an act of desperation.




    using that rational

    everyone who buys a ticket after the tanaka signing

    is buying  2 C tanaka

    that should cover his cost

     


    once teams have seen him a few times, will show his true colors,

    how did that work out 4 those guys in japan

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:

    The Yankee payroll was at $185 mil. before they signed Tanaka for $23 mil. That means that $19 mil. of that $23 mil. was penalized at 50% which is $9.5 mil. So in effect Tanaka is costing the Yankees $23 + $9.5 mil. = $32.5 mil. in 2014. Yes that is an act of desperation.




    using that rational

    everyone who buys a ticket after the tanaka signing

    is buying  2 C tanaka

    that should cover his cost

     


    once teams have seen him a few times, will show his true colors,

    how did that work out 4 those guys in japan



    In general and with few exceptions, the hitters who play in MLB in the US are superior in talent to those who play in Japan. I think that Tanaka will start off strong, but will fall down some come August. We shall see.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.




    if Ben had given that amount of years and that amount of $$$ when we already have 6 starters he would have been crucified by this board. 

    if he got it done for a dice-k type contract ~$100MM there would be some on both sides of the proverbial fence.

    anything under $100MM and i would think most would be on board.



    Mostly true



    I think most of us who don't like the Tanaka deal for the Yankees would hate it for the Red Sox as well.  Of course some of us are Homers and would find a reason to love it, or would only look at everything good written about Tanaka etc etc etc.  Every team has though homers, we are no different. 

    So I would say mostly true is a fair assessment. 



    Your assessments are usually spot on as well. As far as the feedback I get otherwise, I may be the NYY fan version of Hingham Hammer.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Salary-wise the best comparison for Tanaka is Ellsbury. 

    I have no regrets about what happened this off-season regarding those two.  I'd liked to have seen the Sox get either (or both) of them but not at the price the Yankees paid for either of  them. 

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    didn't the 189 only start at the end of 2012

    and just how adamant is 1

    when they continually  say

    '' the 189 is a goal but they wouldn't put it B4

    putting a championship contender on the field ''

     

    Here is why we keep saying the Yankees are desperate besides the fact that it's true.  The new luxury tax rules were announced in Nov. 2012, I believe.

    Prior to the 2013 season, the Yankees were very adamant about being under the tax limit by 2014.

    Here are some quotes from the Yankees officials before 2013:

    "Yankees officials are insisting that you either commit to a philosophy or not, and they remain galvanized on gaining the financial benefits that are available via the collective bargaining agreement if they slip below $189 million.

    Many outside executives remain skeptical, especially wondering if the Yankees truly will have this discipline should they miss the playoffs in 2013 and/or attendance plummets. For now, though, general manager Brian Cashman could not have been more definitive: “We are not going to be over the $189 million.”"

     

    "“I’m looking at it as a goal, but my goals are normally considered a requirement,” Steinbrenner said "

     

    And the best one yet:

     

    “I’m a finance geek,” he said. “I guess I always have been. That’s my background. Budgets matter, and balance sheets matter. I just feel that if you do well on the player-development side and you have a good farm system, you don’t need a $220 million payroll. You don’t. You can field every bit as good a team with young talent.

     

    The whole idea of "it's a goal, not a mandate" did not surface until the 2013 offseason. 

    Granted, the Yankees FO did say that they would always field try to field a competitive team.  However, they were very adamant about getting under the tax limit initially, and their offseason moves last year supported that.

    Then, 2013 happened, the Yankees FO panicked, and the whole philosophy went out the window.  That is desperation.

    One other thing Zac.  As with the idea of Red Sox fans being desperate, the idea of Red Sox fans having "sour grapes" and being fans of the reigning WS Champions are mutually exclusive.

    As I said earlier, you are trying way too hard.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Tanaka will be the bust that eclipses Dice-K!    Oh sweet justice :)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Just wondering what the course of a similar thread here  would have been if the RS signed Tanaka; the contrast may have reminded me of the book 1984.

     

    Anytime the Red Sox sign a good player, as a fan, I am excited for the team.  If the Sox had signed Tanaka for the same terms that the Yankees did, I would still be excited about having the player on my team, even if I would not like the terms of the deal. 

    I stated before Tanaka signed, that the Sox should put in a bid, but I also said that he is not the type of player to go all in for.  I think he will be a good pitcher, but he won't be worth the value of the contract.

    It is my opinion that the Yankees paid too much, both in dollars and in years.  It is also my opinion, however, that this is a deal that they had to make.  They are desperate, after all.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Tanaka may be a good signing for the Yankees as far as improving their team. But his contract, as well as Ellsbury's, are for too much for too long. Just because they can afford it doesn't mean those contracts won't become a burden to the organization in the long run. At least no one is claiming that Tanaka has a special "gyroball" pitch. They say he has a good splitter, and that can be very effective against MLB hitters.

     
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