Yankees to sign Tanaka

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 




    [/QUOTE]

    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE. TBD

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

     



    +1

     

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

     



    A statue?

     

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

     




    I hope you're kiddding, twm

     

     



    Ok top three.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    you forgot the zero, maybe?UndecidedSealed

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

     



    +1

     

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

     



    A statue?

     

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

     




    I hope you're kiddding, twm

     

     



    Ok top three.

     

     

     



    you forgot the zero, maybe?UndecidedSealed

     

     



    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm talking defensively. Kimmi has it right. If you play long enough, you'll get the number of hits. To say he's one of the all time/around best...not even close, IMO

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

    [/QUOTE]

    So, Kimmi says Jeter is bad defensively and your answer is he's not, because he has over 3 thousand hits?

    Ok...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess.

    If paying Puig, Cespedes, Chapman and Darvish were desperate as well.

    The posting system along with the teams involved drove up the value of the player.

    The big losers as far as I can see are the Cubs and D-Backs who desperately needed another starter.

    The Yankees adrressed a need like the Sox did when they signed Lackey.

    Knowing Lackey was coming off of a season where he had a forearm injury.

    Then TJ the next season.

    Not much different. The Yankees paid for a pitcher they scouted for 2 years.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    LOL yes...it is not my decision.  

    If the Red Sox gave Grady Sizemore 575,000,000 dollars would you say that "they didn't over spend because they could spend whatever they wan"???

    If I see my friend spend $125,000 on a honda accord do I not have the ability to say "dude you over spent"

    If EVERY SINGLE other contract based on production, similiar value, and any level of precedent you could throw at me means anything.....anyone who is a fan of the sport and likes to comment on the business side of it (which I'm really into) has every right to say they overspent.

    In the end, no one will every know what he will be until he goes out there an pitches......but there is the appearence right now, that they grossly overspent. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    just wondering

    who was the last red sox SS to start back 2 back opening days

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 

     




     



    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess.

    If paying Puig, Cespedes, Chapman and Darvish were desperate as well.

    The posting system along with the teams involved drove up the value of the player.

    The big losers as far as I can see are the Cubs and D-Backs who desperately needed another starter.

    The Yankees adrressed a need like the Sox did when they signed Lackey.

    Knowing Lackey was coming off of a season where he had a forearm injury.

    Then TJ the next season.

    Not much different. The Yankees paid for a pitcher they scouted for 2 years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much difference? Scouting vs. proven pitcher? Lackey wasn't an unknown, to MLB, the AL or the post season

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

    [/QUOTE]

    So, Kimmi says Jeter is bad defensively and your answer is he's not, because he has over 3 thousand hits?

    Ok...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think she referred to him as a statue.

    I tend to believe that Jeter gets less love in Boston than anywhere else so I take any criticism on this site with a grain of salt.

    Personally I think Bill James is fos.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess.

    If paying Puig, Cespedes, Chapman and Darvish were desperate as well.

    The posting system along with the teams involved drove up the value of the player.

    The big losers as far as I can see are the Cubs and D-Backs who desperately needed another starter.

    The Yankees adrressed a need like the Sox did when they signed Lackey.

    Knowing Lackey was coming off of a season where he had a forearm injury.

    Then TJ the next season.

    Not much different. The Yankees paid for a pitcher they scouted for 2 years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much difference? Scouting vs. proven player? Lackey wasn't an unknow to MLB or the AL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

     



    +1

     

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

     



    A statue?

     

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

     




    I hope you're kiddding, twm

     

     



    Ok top three.

     

     

     



    you forgot the zero, maybe?UndecidedSealed

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

     

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm talking defensively. Kimmi has it right. If you play long enough, you'll get the number of hits. To say he's one of the all time/around best...not even close, IMO

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?

    Yaz is the only RS I know of with 3k.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In hindsight how many teams do you think would like a do-over with Darvish?

    [/QUOTE]

    At the risk of being redundant, Darvish is making $9.3M. He represents value because he is a good player and is being paid a reasonable amount to play for his team. Tanaka is going to get over $22M per year (fifth highest salary among all ML pitchers) even if he stinks, and no one knows how well he will perform here. He, in all likelihood, does not represent a good value. I am glad you like the deal for the Yankees. I do too.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.



    +1

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A statue?

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeter is nothing but a class act and a winner. He is not a good defensive player, but his lifetime BA/OPS of .312/.828 (.308/.838 in the postseason) would put him on my team when he was in his prime. Now, not so much.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In hindsight how many teams do you think would like a do-over with Darvish?

    [/QUOTE]

    At the risk of being redundant, Darvish is making $9.3M. He represents value because he is a good player and is being paid a reasonable amount to play for his team. Tanaka is going to get over $22M per year (fifth highest salary among all ML pitchers) even if he stinks, and no one knows how well he will perform here. He, in all likelihood, does not represent a good value. I am glad you like the deal for the Yankees. I do too.

    [/QUOTE]


    And what do you think would have received last season if the same posting used for Tanaka was in place?

    Texas if they wanted Darvish would have been bidding against other clubs.

    Darvish too would have gotten an enormous amount.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 




    [/QUOTE]

    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess.

    If paying Puig, Cespedes, Chapman and Darvish were desperate as well.

    The posting system along with the teams involved drove up the value of the player.

    The big losers as far as I can see are the Cubs and D-Backs who desperately needed another starter.

    The Yankees adrressed a need like the Sox did when they signed Lackey.

    Knowing Lackey was coming off of a season where he had a forearm injury.

    Then TJ the next season.

    Not much different. The Yankees paid for a pitcher they scouted for 2 years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much difference? Scouting vs. proven player? Lackey wasn't an unknow to MLB or the AL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not this year, they didn't. Vic, either, who btw, took less to come to the Sox. If we didn't have both or either, this year, we wouldn't have won it all. The point is twm, (over)paying for a known commodity, is one thing. You know nothing of Tanaka, yet.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A statue?

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeter is nothing but a class act and a winner. He is not a good defensive player, but his lifetime BA/OPS of .312/.828 would put him on my team when he was in his prime. Now, not so much.

    [/QUOTE]

    What do you want he's 40?

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    I love....how the Yankees love that they are just saying "**** IT" lets max out the credit cards!!!!!!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

     


    Vic batted .294/.801 this year while playing GG caliber RF for a World Series winning team. This year he earned his keep. I was (and still am) against the third year of his contract, but they did it anyway. Tanaka will still have four more years after his third year, even if he stinks.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A statue?

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeter is nothing but a class act and a winner. He is not a good defensive player, but his lifetime BA/OPS of .312/.828 would put him on my team when he was in his prime. Now, not so much.

    [/QUOTE]

    What do you want he's 40?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Just keeping it real. I would probably not have signed him back again-for the good of the team. I do not expect he will perform well this year at all. In the past he was the face of the team and deserves the respect of all Sox fans for his professionalism. Like Rivera.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

     


    Vic batted .294/.801 this year while playing GG caliber RF for a World Series winning team. This year he earned his keep. I was (and still am) against the third year of his contract, but they did it anyway. Tanaka will still have four more years after his third year, even if he stinks.

    [/QUOTE]

    3 years vs. 7 years.

    No posting fee plus about 7 million a year less.

    Proven MLB talent on a first division team vs. proven to be able to beat Japanese hitters in Japan.

    .....and for what it is worth, a lot of Boston fans did not like the Vic signing at first. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed Hugh.  The other thing worth noting is the INSANE amount of stress his arm has been through.  I heard recently that he has already thrown 1,400 innings of professional ball so far!  That's insane!!  In a playoff game he pitched 175 pitches.....then the next DAY pitched another inning! 

    I know they do thing different in Japan and have very different regimines......but no matter how you look at it....that arm has about the same mileage as a 30 year old MLB player.

    [/QUOTE]

    dontrelle

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Anyplace other than SS for Jeter would be a big boost to the Yanks chances in 2014.

     



    +1

     

    He was virtually a statue when he was young and healthy.  Can't imagine what he'll be like at 40, coming off an ankle injury.   Then again, I guess you can't really get much worse than "statue".

     

     



    A statue?

     

    Ha ha. One of the 5 greatest SSs of all time.

    Anywhere else but Boston.

     




    I hope you're kiddding, twm

     

     



    Ok top three.

     

     

     



    you forgot the zero, maybe?UndecidedSealed

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only three shortstops all time in the 3k club Honus Wagner, Jeter, Robin Yount and Cal Ripken.

     

    Very likely Jeter will move past Wagner this season into the no.1 sport all time for shortstops.

    Tell me how that he could not be included as in the top 5 shortstops of all time?

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm talking defensively. Kimmi has it right. If you play long enough, you'll get the number of hits. To say he's one of the all time/around best...not even close, IMO

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?

    Yaz is the only RS I know of with 3k.

    [/QUOTE]

    your point is what?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    175 million for a guy who projects as a middle of the rotation starter and hasn't thrown 1 pitch in pro ball outside of Japan isn't the "cost of any team seeking starting pitching" 

    Sox drafted a few guys with similiar profiles and ceilings and haven't signed one to a bonus north of 2.75 million. 

     

     



    How do you know where he projects? 24-0 in Japan with less than a 2 era. yes.....24-0 in Japan.  I don't know where he projects any more than you do...I do however follow the scouting community.  And there is a large consensus that that is where he scouts. 

     

     

    I put more faith in the scouts for the teams who pursued him.  Based on what? the Yankee scouting reports you've seen on him? again the international scouting community has slapped a middle of the rotation starter on him (which is still really really good) 

    I heard much of the same about Darvish. Darvish was much more highly regarded than Tanaka, he was when they both pitched in Japan...and he is now as well. 

    Big difference between who the Sox drafted or any team drafted with the new posting rules for japanese free agents. Yes there is....there are more scouts on the ground in the u.s. and there market forces at work as well....if Tanaka was younger and part of a draft he would obviously be paid much less. 

    Did you notice the old system was satisfactory for Dice-K and Darvish that was only until the NY Yankees openly stated they would pursue Tanaka that the enite was changed. Again this is NY narcissism...there isn't a shred of evidence to support this

    The 50 mil the RS bid for Dice was not counted against the RS payroll, neither was the fee for Darvish. I'm fully aware of this, but the money is still spent and has an affect on a teams bottom line.  Ultimately between the posting fee and the 50% luxury tax the deal could end up costing New York north of $250 million dollars. 

    The guy doing all the complaining Frank Coonley GM of the Pirates about the posting system didn't even bid. I really don't care about the GM of the Pirates.  And the new posting system is about every guy coming out of japan moving forward...not this one guy and his relationship to the Yankees needs...again this is NY narcissism. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    I'm confused by the answers here.

    Hard to follow. You answered in red and black?

    I will say we all come here with our bias you with yours me with mine.

    I frankly can't understand why so many RS fans are concerned about the cost no one cared about the 50 million dollar phone call to Dice-K.

    Whatever the Yankees spent on Tanaka they'll get back if they get to the post season.

    I Hank said it best yesterday if not for the payroll tax the Yankees would spend 300 mil.

    And that isn't family wealth, revenue put back into the sytem like the old man used to.

    GS maintained you had to put a good product on the field to capture the fans I think the sons agree.

    I post yesterday a quote from KLaw that states Tanaka will be elite from day one.

    He is immediately denounced here as a lunatic his opinion dirt but all the scouts you read, read whay you would like to hear are more reputable?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    KLAW is NOT an international scout, find me ONE scout calling him a top of the rotation starter.  Who cares about Dice-K and his posting fee...different system different time I could care less.

     

    My argument is that the Yankees overspent for Tanaka.  If the scouting reports are true, then dollar for dollar compared to every other FA pitcher who has signed in recent years this is a bad deal.

    So the Yankees have the money to eat bad deals, but what happens when they have an over inflated payroll and aren't winning? 

    Every good team, just like very good business is just a few bad decisions away from going down the tubes, and Yankee fans think their team is somehow magically immune from this and get all excited and giddy when their team goes out and maxes out the credit card as if there will be no ramifications.

    The bigger you are the harder you fall...if the Yankees can't drastically improve and miss the playoffs again do you really think they will have bottomless wallets with a payroll that effectively costs them a quarter billion + every years???

    [/QUOTE]

    Overspent?

    It was their money how can you say they over spent?

    That's for them to determine.

    You might think Tanaka is over valued but the Yankees spent what they wanted for a 25 year old pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What they wanted? They paid what they had to, which screams desperation, twm, to a guy who hasnt thrown one pitch in MLB, let alone the ALE

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess.

    If paying Puig, Cespedes, Chapman and Darvish were desperate as well.

    The posting system along with the teams involved drove up the value of the player.

    The big losers as far as I can see are the Cubs and D-Backs who desperately needed another starter.

    The Yankees adrressed a need like the Sox did when they signed Lackey.

    Knowing Lackey was coming off of a season where he had a forearm injury.

    Then TJ the next season.

    Not much different. The Yankees paid for a pitcher they scouted for 2 years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much difference? Scouting vs. proven player? Lackey wasn't an unknow to MLB or the AL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Did they overpay for him?

    How about Victorino? They paid to fill a need like the Yankees did.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not this year, they didn't. Vic, either. If we didn't have both or either, this year, we wouldn't have won it all. The point is twm, (over)paying for a known commodity, is one thing. You know nothing of Tanaka, yet.

    [/QUOTE]


    You guys miss the point.

    It certainly wasn't what the Yankees preferred.

    If they had a choice the process that was in place last season for Darvish is what they would have preferred.

    More importantly to win with a large posting fee not counted against team payroll.

    A lot of folks believe the 50 mil to talk to Dice-K was too much, certainly a lot more than any other team put up.

    But the Sox got the pitcher they wanted. Did they over pay?

    Probably not because they were the only team negotiating the terms of his contract.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Personally I think Bill James is fos.

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Surprised

    It's not just Bill James.  Any baseball analyst who looks beyond fielding % pretty much says the same thing about Jeter.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Yankees to sign Tanaka

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In hindsight how many teams do you think would like a do-over with Darvish?

    [/QUOTE]

    At the risk of being redundant, Darvish is making $9.3M. He represents value because he is a good player and is being paid a reasonable amount to play for his team. Tanaka is going to get over $22M per year (fifth highest salary among all ML pitchers) even if he stinks, and no one knows how well he will perform here. He, in all likelihood, does not represent a good value. I am glad you like the deal for the Yankees. I do too.

    [/QUOTE]


    And what do you think would have received last season if the same posting used for Tanaka was in place?

    Texas if they wanted Darvish would have been bidding against other clubs.

    Darvish too would have gotten an enormous amount.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats hypothetical. I doubt Darvish would have been signed to a contract like Tanaka, but its conjecture. Bottom line: Darvish got a reasonable contract while Tanaka is likely overpaid-by a lot. As a loyal Sox fan I hope he turns out to be the albatross I think he will become.

     

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