yanks will not go away

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    Re: yanks will not go away

    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]6 straight wins, 3rd best record in the league - UGH! Yankees 67 42 .615 1.0 37-22 30-20 8-2
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    3rd?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    Yankees are surviving on smoke and mirror towards career high ERA from Colon and Garcia. Burnett is erratic, Hughes finally had a good start, and Nova has been erratic but better lately.

    It will come down to starting pitching, were Lester and Beckett is better than any 2 Yankee starters. But during the division race, the other starters are more important. So far, Yankees are getting the best of the 3, 4, 5 and spot/sub starter, but Bedard is the wild card.

    Bedard could be good, wilt to the DL again, or struggle to provide average start innings quality. If Bedard is good, barring a DL to an everyday player, I think the Red Sox win the division. If not, it will go down to the final few games of the season.

    Buch returning fresh, late, or for the playoffs is another needle changer. We'll see, but it's something the Yankees don't have as a possibility.

    Beckett                    Sabathia    no blood
    Lester                      Burnett      Red Sox
    Bedard?                    Hughes         ?
    Lackey                     Colon            Yankees for now  Colon might breakdown
    Wakefield                  Garcia       Yankees period
    Miller                        Nova         Yankees for now

    Pretty clear that the bottom of the rotation is where the Yankees have been superior to Red Sox. Lackey is an embarrassment, more than Burnett, and Wakefield is proof that going with one year deals on other veterans or using young talent is the way to go.

    Bedard is the key to the division battle, as I see it. If he's good, that is the tipping point. If he isn't, the Red Sox offense is good enough to still take the race to the last few days but the Yankees have a razor thin probability advantage.

    Let's hope we get the April, May and June Bedard, and not the one start post DL meltdown Bedard. 5 innings and change v. Indians and 1 or 2 runs would be a good sign.  

    My choice from a no value pitching market was to try and deal for Kemp, extend him for the long term, and simply wear down the best pitchers with Kemp, Pedroia and Youk, from the right side, and AGon and Ortiz from the lefty side, applying a powerful 2 sided vise force. Ortiz has been a gift from heaven v. LHP, but another slugging RH bat would have created a better than 2004 murders row that would beat any pitching staff almost 70% of the games played.

    Bedard might work, but it's more of a gamble. Hopefully, it works, but it's dubious.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    Give Bedard time ... he looks honestly happy to be on the team.  It would help if the bats came alive again too ...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]Yankees are surviving on smoke and mirror towards career high ERA from Colon and Garcia. Burnett is erratic, Hughes finally had a good start, and Nova has been erratic but better lately. It will come down to starting pitching, were Lester and Beckett is better than any 2 Yankee starters. But during the division race, the other starters are more important. So far, Yankees are getting the best of the 3, 4, 5 and spot/sub starter, but Bedard is the wild card. Bedard could be good, wilt to the DL again, or struggle to provide average start innings quality. If Bedard is good, barring a DL to an everyday player, I think the Red Sox win the division. If not, it will go down to the final few games of the season. Buch returning fresh, late, or for the playoffs is another needle changer. We'll see, but it's something the Yankees don't have as a possibility. Beckett                    Sabathia    no blood Lester                      Burnett      Red Sox Bedard?                    Hughes         ? Lackey                     Colon            Yankees for now  Colon might breakdown Wakefield                  Garcia       Yankees period Miller                        Nova         Yankees for now Pretty clear that the bottom of the rotation is where the Yankees have been superior to Red Sox. Lackey is an embarrassment, more than Burnett, and Wakefield is proof that going with one year deals on other veterans or using young talent is the way to go. Bedard is the key to the division battle, as I see it. If he's good, that is the tipping point. If he isn't, the Red Sox offense is good enough to still take the race to the last few days but the Yankees have a razor thin probability advantage. Let's hope we get the April, May and June Bedard, and not the one start post DL meltdown Bedard. 5 innings and change v. Indians and 1 or 2 runs would be a good sign.   My choice from a no value pitching market was to try and deal for Kemp, extend him for the long term, and simply wear down the best pitchers with Kemp, Pedroia and Youk, from the right side, and AGon and Ortiz from the lefty side, applying a powerful 2 sided vise force. Ortiz has been a gift from heaven v. LHP, but another slugging RH bat would have created a better than 2004 murders row that would beat any pitching staff almost 70% of the games played. Bedard might work, but it's more of a gamble. Hopefully, it works, but it's dubious.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    The truth of the matter is that the Yankees staff has out performed the Sox and the loss of Buccholz and the injuries to Dice and Lackey, certainly hasn't helped, the Yanks lost Hughes from thier opening day rotation...

    Softy, like it or not with Buccholz out for what looks like the remainder of the year. Bedard's aquisition was not a luxary but rather a need...If you look at his 2011 numbers he slots in as our 3rd best and stacks up against both Colon and Garcia...Not sure that I'd handicap either as having a hugh advantage down the stretch and the back end of the rotation doesn't play a hugh role in the playoffs So the reality is that if the two teams squared off today in a best of seven, the matchups would be....

    Beckett vs Sabathia (Games 1 & 6)
    Lester   vs Colon     (Games 2 & 7)
    Bedard vs  Garcia     (Game 3)
    Lackey vs Burnett    (Game 4)

    If all of them are healthy I'd say we have a decided advantage in the Lester vs Colon matchup and Bedard vs Garcia I'd also give us the edge...

    Yankees
    GSWLQS IP  H ERHR BBSOK/9P/GSWHIPERAQS%
    Sabathia2416516176.2 153 50 7 45162 8.25 1081.122.5567%
    Burnett23898142.2 129 7221 63123 7.76 1021.354.5435%
    Garcia1910714117.1 118 42  9 3480 6.14 911.303.2274%
    Nova17949 98.2 104 4410 3857 5.2 931.444.0153%
    Colon168610109 105 4011 2998 8.09 911.233.3063%
    Hughes8233 37.2 50 29    5 1320 4.78 801.676.9338%
    Gordon201010.1 12 63 34 3.48 79 1.45 5.23  0%
    TOTALS109  53 35 60690671  283 66 225 544 7.10 1.303.6955%
    RedSox 
    GSWLQSIPHERHR  BB SO K/9P/GSWHIPERAQS%
    Beckett219416139 91 341137122 7.90 990.922.2076%
    Lester2011413127.2 109 451643124 8.74 1041.193.1765%
    Lackey18986104 131 72153071 6.14 1001.556.2333%
    Wakefield15646106.1 106 59173258 4.91 871.304.9940%
    Buchholz1463682.2 76 32103160 6.53 971.293.4843%
    Miller841240.1 51 2452525 5.58 941.885.3625%
    Matsuzaka733237.1 32 2242326 6.27 911.475.3029%
    Aceves411121 20 1301313 5.57 901.153.1925%
    Weiland201110 14 9154 3.60 891.908.10 50%
    TOTALS109 49 29 53667630 31079239503 6.79 1.304.1849%
    2011GSWLQS  IPHERHR BBSOK/9P/GS WHIPERAQS%
    Bedard 1647991773511  30878.59  94 1.173.4656%
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    Pretty clear that the bottom of the rotation is where the Yankees have been superior to Red Sox. Lackey is an embarrassment, more than Burnett, and Wakefield is proof that going with one year deals on other veterans or using young talent is the way to go.

    Bedard is the key to the division battle, as I see it. If he's good, that is the tipping point----softylaw
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    A good take on the rotation strengths, but the assumption that Bedard is the tipping point is a bit of a one sided view. Hughes looked incredibly comfortable two nights ago shutting out the CWS hitting 95 and sitting at 92-93 all game with no walks. If that's a sign that his arm strength and comfort level is back, Bedard will really have to dial it up to keep up (assuming Hughes does). If he doesn't, RSN will have to continue hoping that "smoke and mirrors" Colon and Garcia will fall apart. If they stick to what they've been doing (and frankly, they smile a lot and don't ever really look like they're taxing themselves at all), there's a pretty big gap in the respective rotations that the Yanks can leverage.

    That's not even counting Nova who might have 13-14 wins if he hadn't gone down to the minors to allow Hughes to come up. He goes tonight, so we get another look.
      

    BTW, Beantowne is also right that the rotation strength 1 thru 5 is not as critical in the playoffs, but those guys --Colon, Nova, and company--head for the bullpen which is a great card for the Yanks to be able to play.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wlbpatriotsfan. Show wlbpatriotsfan's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    If the Yankees don't do some damage this weekend, they never will.  In all likelihood, they will be riding a 7 game winning streak and hitting and pitching at an incredible level,  Should be fun!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

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    Both teams are coming into this weekend series with a lot of momentum..Should be fun to watch...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

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    They will this weekend! (will go away)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbair. Show kbair's posts

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    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]Yankees are surviving on smoke and mirror towards career high ERA from Colon and Garcia. Burnett is erratic, Hughes finally had a good start, and Nova has been erratic but better lately. It will come down to starting pitching, were Lester and Beckett is better than any 2 Yankee starters. But during the division race, the other starters are more important. So far, Yankees are getting the best of the 3, 4, 5 and spot/sub starter, but Bedard is the wild card. Bedard could be good, wilt to the DL again, or struggle to provide average start innings quality. If Bedard is good, barring a DL to an everyday player, I think the Red Sox win the division. If not, it will go down to the final few games of the season. Buch returning fresh, late, or for the playoffs is another needle changer. We'll see, but it's something the Yankees don't have as a possibility. Beckett                    Sabathia    no blood Lester                      Burnett      Red Sox Bedard?                    Hughes         ? Lackey                     Colon            Yankees for now  Colon might breakdown Wakefield                  Garcia       Yankees period Miller                        Nova         Yankees for now Pretty clear that the bottom of the rotation is where the Yankees have been superior to Red Sox. Lackey is an embarrassment, more than Burnett, and Wakefield is proof that going with one year deals on other veterans or using young talent is the way to go. Bedard is the key to the division battle, as I see it. If he's good, that is the tipping point. If he isn't, the Red Sox offense is good enough to still take the race to the last few days but the Yankees have a razor thin probability advantage. Let's hope we get the April, May and June Bedard, and not the one start post DL meltdown Bedard. 5 innings and change v. Indians and 1 or 2 runs would be a good sign.   My choice from a no value pitching market was to try and deal for Kemp, extend him for the long term, and simply wear down the best pitchers with Kemp, Pedroia and Youk, from the right side, and AGon and Ortiz from the lefty side, applying a powerful 2 sided vise force. Ortiz has been a gift from heaven v. LHP, but another slugging RH bat would have created a better than 2004 murders row that would beat any pitching staff almost 70% of the games played. Bedard might work, but it's more of a gamble. Hopefully, it works, but it's dubious.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]


    i like where you are going with this. if one lines the pitchers up as they have performed this year it would be (war), advantage:

    beckett (3.4) v. sabathia (5.9)
    sabathia is on an historic run right now. putting up performances that rival any from the best pitchers in the game over the past few decades. the one thing he has never been able to do is beat the red sox consistantly. this year especially, in three starts he is 0-3 with a 6.16 era. all of those loses are against beckett. there is plenty of time for cc to turn it around and put up two great starts against us, but until he does the advantage is definately josh beckett and the red sox.
    lester (2.0) v. garcia (2.3)
    lester is clearly superior to burnett. if garcia is the #2, which he should be, lester has beaten him head to head twice this year. garcia is pitching great while lester is having a down year by his standards mainly due to hr/fb rate 4% higher than average.
    bedard (1.4) v. colon (2.3)
    no sure way to project bedard right now. he has had great success in the al east, posting +5 war seasons in '06 and '07 as an oriole-- that is ace stuff and if he pitches like that the edge is clear. give colon the edge because of the year he is having.
    lackey (.8) v. burnett (1.0)
    lackey beat the yanks in their only matchup thus far, although that was a 9-6 affair where lackey gave up at least one run per inning. still, it was the first win of the season. lackey is better than burnett. all of lackey's peripherals are better than burnett's except k/9 and babip. the red sox pounded burnett for 7 er in 5.2 innings in yankee stadium in their only meeting. burnett was 6-1 at the time.
    wakefield (.4) v. nova (1.0)
    nova is a decent pitcher who induces a lot of ground balls. we have not faced him this year.

    best case scenario for the red sox is that buchholz comes back healthy for the stretch run, bedard pitches well, and lackey continues to improve which would give us the better rotation.
    worst case is buchholz is done for the year, beckett regresses, bedard is hurt, lackey struggles.

    best case for the yankees is cc is able to slay the red sox dragon, garcia continues to pitch well, colon stays healthy (resisting the stem cell dig...), burnett stabilizes, nova keeps it up.
    worst case is cc goes down, colon gets hurt, garcia stabilizes and burnett continues his downward spiral (7 er in 5 ip again last night.)

    this is why this rivalry is so great!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ---TheBabe----------------. Show ---TheBabe----------------'s posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: yanks will not go away : I think if you're going to be a Red Sox homer, what better place than Boston.com on Red Sox: On the Front Burner?  There aren't even any other team boards on this site. Why would loving your team above all others be a negative thing here?  Shouldn't this be the place for it?  If posters don't like Sox fans who aren't neutral, why not just let them be instead of having rival team's fans hammer them here, and make it seem not acceptable?  It doesn't make sense to me, since I don't believe it's a negative on any other team board.

    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Hey pike, don't you ever get tired whining about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: yanks will not go away

    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]Pretty clear that the bottom of the rotation is where the Yankees have been superior to Red Sox. Lackey is an embarrassment, more than Burnett, and Wakefield is proof that going with one year deals on other veterans or using young talent is the way to go. Bedard is the key to the division battle, as I see it. If he's good, that is the tipping point----softylaw ---------------------------------------------------------------- A good take on the rotation strengths, but the assumption that Bedard is the tipping point is a bit of a one sided view. Hughes looked incredibly comfortable two nights ago shutting out the CWS hitting 95 and sitting at 92-93 all game with no walks. If that's a sign that his arm strength and comfort level is back, Bedard will really have to dial it up to keep up (assuming Hughes does). If he doesn't, RSN will have to continue hoping that "smoke and mirrors" Colon and Garcia will fall apart. If they stick to what they've been doing (and frankly, they smile a lot and don't ever really look like they're taxing themselves at all), there's a pretty big gap in the respective rotations that the Yanks can leverage. That's not even counting Nova who might have 13-14 wins if he hadn't gone down to the minors to allow Hughes to come up. He goes tonight, so we get another look.    BTW, Beantowne is also right that the rotation strength 1 thru 5 is not as critical in the playoffs, but those guys --Colon, Nova, and company--head for the bullpen which is a great card for the Yanks to be able to play.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    From this point forward, the back end of the Sox rotation is what is and ditto for the Yanks, while I don't disagree that 3 thorugh 6 can play as an advantage it hasn't stopped either from pulling out from the pack, if we assume both teams will continue to play .600 ball the rest of the way. The head to head series might well be the tipping point. Certainly will play a large role in who wins the division...
    Based on the standings this morning using both teams current home/road records and winning percentages, the Sox are on pace to win 102 and the Yanks 100. Which would be an epic finish and to support the above using the current run differentail, both teams are on pace to to exceed a plus 200 run differentail...

    All things being equal from here on we'll both still fatten up on teams with mediocre pitching and win our share of the 10-7 games.

    So starting this weekend with 53 to play and 10 head to head matchups it's game on! 
     
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    Re: yanks will not go away- You are an idiot. Both those pitchers have proven themselves in two completely different ways. It...

    In Response to Re: yanks will not go away:
    [QUOTE]I do.  I expect the Yanks to go away.  The Colon and Garcia fools gold gave them the false confidence to do nothing at the trade deadline.  To expect either to complete the year healthy and effective is a long-shot, let alone both.  29 - 26 the rest of the way.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
     

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