YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    It's amazing what you come up with when you can't sleep. I had forgotten who won the MVP in 1970 when Yaz had what was likely his second-best season after his Triple Crown year. Found out it was Boog Powell and then found out Yaz finished fourth -- FREAKIN' FOURTH -- in the voting. He blew the others away in some stats and was close in others. Makes you wonder if there was an ant-Yaz or anti-Boston bias going on.

    Let's look 

    Boog Powell
    82 R, 28 2B, 35 HR, 114 RBI, 104 BB, 1 SB, .297 BA, .412 OBP, .549 SLG, .962 OPS

    Tony Oliva
    96 R, 36 2B, 23 HR, 107 RBI, 38 BB, .5 SB, .325 BA, 364 OBP, .414 SLG, .878 OPS

    Harmon Killebrew
    96 R, 20 2B, 41 HR, 113 RBI, 0 SB, 128 BB, .271 BA, .411 OBP, .546 SLG, .957 OPS

    Carl Yastrzemski
    125 R, 29 2B, 40 HR, 102 RBI, 23 SB, .128 BB, 329 BA, .452 OBP, .592 SLG, 1.044 OPS

    Of course, OPS or even OBP weren't considered back then but even in traditional stats BA, Slugging, Runs scored, Yaz blew away the others. Powell had 114 RBIs to Yaz's 102, yet Yaz had an 125-82 advantage in runs scored. 

    And even if you make a case for Powell -- Oliva second? Really?

    It sort of makes you wonder if sabermetics was used back then if Yaz would have been MVP by a landslide. 

    Yaz led the AL in WAR by  a big margin 9.5, Sam McDowell second 7.9. Oliva fifth (7.0) and Powell and Killebrew not in the top 10.

    Yaz led in WAR among Position Players, Jim Fregosi second (7.7), Oliva fourth. Powell and Killebrew not in top 10.

    Yaz led in Offensive WAR (8.9). Tommy Harper second (7.3). Killebrew (6.1) and Powell (5.4) sixth and eighth respectively. Oliva not in top 10.

    Yaz led the league in OBP, Slugging, OPS -- all by big margins -- runs scored, total bases, along with some more modern categories, adjusted OPS, runs created, adjuste batting runs, adjusted batting wins, times on base and offensive win percentage.

    It makes you wonder if Yaz gotten one more hit or Alex Johnson one less hit, which would have given Yaz his fourth batting title if by having the batting title with the other tradition stats, that would have put Yaz over the top.

    Doesn't matter though. YAZ WUZ ROBBED.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    It's amazing what you come up with when you can't sleep. I had forgotten who won the MVP in 1970 when Yaz had what was likely his second-best season after his Triple Crown year. Found out it was Boog Powell and then found out Yaz finished fourth -- FREAKIN' FOURTH -- in the voting. He blew the others away in some stats and was close in others. Makes you wonder if there was an ant-Yaz or anti-Boston bias going on.

    right or wrong roy

    got to think this had something to do with it

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    It's amazing what you come up with when you can't sleep. I had forgotten who won the MVP in 1970 when Yaz had what was likely his second-best season after his Triple Crown year. Found out it was Boog Powell and then found out Yaz finished fourth -- FREAKIN' FOURTH -- in the voting. He blew the others away in some stats and was close in others. Makes you wonder if there was an ant-Yaz or anti-Boston bias going on.

    right or wrong roy

    got to think this had something to do with it



    I was really saying that tongue in cheek.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    Roy, interesting premise. I went back and looked at the two teams, Baltimore and Boston and there was a world of difference in the way they played. Baltimore had a hold of first place at the end of July, and then went on a two month tear through the AL. They won 44 of 58 games, playing at a .745 clip for the final two months, finishing an overwhelming 15 games ahead of their closest rivals, the NYY. Powell hit 15 homers in those two months after hitting 20 through July. He struck out just 80 times, and was always driving in runs for his team. The Sox' season was defined in May, when they went just 9-17, falling out of the race, at the end of the month, they were 11.5 games out, and although they played respectable ball after that, they lost another 9.5 games in the standings the rest of the way. Baltimore was a juggernaut, and Powell was their offensive leader.

    The May swoon included losing streaks of 2,3,5 and 5 games, included was a disasterous west coast trip, they posted just 2 wins against 7 losses, and that put them into a hole they could not get out of.  The Sox lost three in a row to Baltimore, getting outscored 12-5. Yaz, btw did his part, hitting 11 homers in May, but he wasn't enough. They lost 4 games by one run, they just weren't good enough.

     Powell finished second in the MVP vote the year before, and was a contender again in 1971, his three year stretch was pretty impressive, and was clearly in his prime. I think the voters got it right. He was the best player on what was far and away the best team.

    When Pedroia won his MVP, he got votes for the context of his contributions, and not the overall sum of his metrics. Giving the MVP to Yaz, would be a metric decision and not one that had relevance to the way the games turned out.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    It's amazing what you come up with when you can't sleep. I had forgotten who won the MVP in 1970 when Yaz had what was likely his second-best season after his Triple Crown year. Found out it was Boog Powell and then found out Yaz finished fourth -- FREAKIN' FOURTH -- in the voting. He blew the others away in some stats and was close in others. Makes you wonder if there was an ant-Yaz or anti-Boston bias going on.

    right or wrong roy

    got to think this had something to do with it

     

     



    I was really saying that tongue in cheek.

     

     

     




    yeah I know

     

    but I was talking about the standings  right ?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Roy, interesting premise. I went back and looked at the two teams, Baltimore and Boston and there was a world of difference in the way they played. Baltimore had a hold of first place at the end of July, and then went on a two month tear through the AL. They won 44 of 58 games, playing at a .745 clip for the final two months, finishing an overwhelming 15 games ahead of their closest rivals, the NYY. Powell hit 15 homers in those two months after hitting 20 through July. He struck out just 80 times, and was always driving in runs for his team. The Sox' season was defined in May, when they went just 9-17, falling out of the race, at the end of the month, they were 11.5 games out, and although they played respectable ball after that, they lost another 9.5 games in the standings the rest of the way. Baltimore was a juggernaut, and Powell was their offensive leader.

    The May swoon included losing streaks of 2,3,5 and 5 games, included was a disasterous west coast trip, they posted just 2 wins against 7 losses, and that put them into a hole they could not get out of.  The Sox lost three in a row to Baltimore, getting outscored 12-5. Yaz, btw did his part, hitting 11 homers in May, but he wasn't enough. They lost 4 games by one run, they just weren't good enough.

     Powell finished second in the MVP vote the year before, and was a contender again in 1971, his three year stretch was pretty impressive, and was clearly in his prime. I think the voters got it right. He was the best player on what was far and away the best team.

    When Pedroia won his MVP, he got votes for the context of his contributions, and not the overall sum of his metrics. Giving the MVP to Yaz, would be a metric decision and not one that had relevance to the way the games turned out.



    +1

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Roy, interesting premise. I went back and looked at the two teams, Baltimore and Boston and there was a world of difference in the way they played. Baltimore had a hold of first place at the end of July, and then went on a two month tear through the AL. They won 44 of 58 games, playing at a .745 clip for the final two months, finishing an overwhelming 15 games ahead of their closest rivals, the NYY. Powell hit 15 homers in those two months after hitting 20 through July. He struck out just 80 times, and was always driving in runs for his team. The Sox' season was defined in May, when they went just 9-17, falling out of the race, at the end of the month, they were 11.5 games out, and although they played respectable ball after that, they lost another 9.5 games in the standings the rest of the way. Baltimore was a juggernaut, and Powell was their offensive leader.

    The May swoon included losing streaks of 2,3,5 and 5 games, included was a disasterous west coast trip, they posted just 2 wins against 7 losses, and that put them into a hole they could not get out of.  The Sox lost three in a row to Baltimore, getting outscored 12-5. Yaz, btw did his part, hitting 11 homers in May, but he wasn't enough. They lost 4 games by one run, they just weren't good enough.

     Powell finished second in the MVP vote the year before, and was a contender again in 1971, his three year stretch was pretty impressive, and was clearly in his prime. I think the voters got it right. He was the best player on what was far and away the best team.

    When Pedroia won his MVP, he got votes for the context of his contributions, and not the overall sum of his metrics. Giving the MVP to Yaz, would be a metric decision and not one that had relevance to the way the games turned out.



    I've never bought the idea tht the MVP needs to come from the best team. So in 1970, you're automatically disqualifed because your team didn't have three 20-game winners?

    Powell had an excellent year but the Orioles were the best team because they had a great lineup with Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar and Dave McNally leading the pitching staff. Take Powell away and put in an average 1B and they still win first place -- maybe not 108 wins, but still first place.

    Giving the MVP to Yaz wouldn't be a metric decision, it would be who was the best player. I don't have a problem with giving the MVP to the Most VALUABLE Player instead of the best player. I just don't think there was a Most VALUABLE Player that year.

    Giving it to Powell because he was the best player on the best team is basically calling it a Player of the Year because you can't say he was the Most Valuable -- not with a team with that sort of pitching.

    So unless there is truly a MOST VALUABLE Player, you give it to the player who had the best year.

    HOWEVER ...

    The point about Powell's play during that steak you mentioned is valid. So maybe in a closer vote, it puts Powell over the top.

    But for Yaz -- FOURTH PLACE with the year he had?. I didn't know the criterea for being voted MVP was playing for first place team.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    agreed he was robbed but it has been historically improbable for an MVP to come from a team finishing out of the PO's by double digits.  a notable exception is our friend A-rod's 2003 MVP.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    agreed he was robbed but it has been historically improbable for an MVP to come from a team finishing out of the PO's by double digits.  a notable exception is our friend A-rod's 2003 MVP.



    Looking at it from the way stats were viewed in 1970, I can understand why Powell won (fourth for Yaz still a head-scratcher). But looking at all the stats -- OPS, OBP, WAR, etc. -- that are looked at today, especially the margin Yaz led some of them, it makes you wonder how the vote would turn out today. (And had Yaz ended up with the batting title, it makes you wonder if the vote would have been different.)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: YAZ WAS ROBBED IN 1970; I Want a Revote

    Yaz didn't run out a groundball that year. Fans booed him. He got Dick Williams fired behind his back. Fans booed him....I'm just kidding, Yaz is still a Legend. There is no greater moment than watching Yaz homer off Tom Seaver in the 1975 All-Star Game. To see it sends chills up my spine. He walks up to the plate, asks the ump if it's okay that he wears his cap instead of a helmet, promptly drives a fastball over the CF fence. The Natural.

     
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