Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    No one likes softylaw or likes agreeing with him, but I have to say Granderson is in fact having a colossal year and a better year than Ellsbury. 

    I also agree that yesterday Crawford's hitting was huge.  He got the first Sox hit, a double, and scored the first run (on Jake's sac fly).  Later he got the next big rally started. 

    That said, Jakes dinger took the game from 4-3 Sox to 7-3 Sox, and that was also pretty big.  Plus the dinger was  nowhere near the foul pole and went about 370 feet.  No one else got a dinger off Sabathia, for whatever that's worth.  And that walkoff dinger Wed night went about 430 feet or so, it is foolish of softylaw to continue to preach that Jake's swing is defective and doesn't have real power. 

    My candidate for AL MVP remains Adrian Gonzalez--MLB leader in rbi's, great hitter, great fielder, and cool dude. Playing RF a couple of times on that NL road trip from hell is to me prima facie evidence that here is a great player who wants to win.   He is proving that you don't have to hit a zillion dingers--which is softylaw's only criterion for hitting ability--to be effective.  In this case, it's also very smart because of the RF and RC depth at Fenway and the lovely green monster in LF.  I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that Ortiz, Ellsbury, and Crawford are all hitting more to left because of AGon's example.  JD Drew, on other hand, wouldn't be caught dead hitting to left field.  He may have multiple skills, but sure could use a brain. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]ellsbury is doing this damage in the leadoff spot, wich is why his numbers are so impressive and why he is mentioned in the mvp race, lets not forget his ability to swipe bases, look at his avg/hr/r/rbi/sb/ops etc batting leadoff. 
    Posted by isurfvb35[/QUOTE]

    Here's the top leadoff guys in MLB with a minimum of 400 PA in the 1 hole. I'd say that Ells in the AL and Reyes in the NL are the leaders in the club house as the best in each of thier respective leagues...

    PLAYER AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Ellsbury 419 77 138 30 216 64 29 .329 .384 .525 .909
    Reyes 427 80 144  26 16 5 37 34 .337  .378 .508.886
    Weeks 377 67 103 22 217 39 7 .273 .347  .477.824
    Kinsler 384 70 92 23 316 4219 .240 .346 .440.786
    Bourn 427  60 127 25 5 1 3134 .297 .355 .386.741
    Stubbs 396 68 101 15 111 3325 .255 .334 .381.715
    Jackson 392 51  95 15 8 5 2414 .242 .311  .360.671
    Pierre 431 54 120 10 4 1 2818 .278   .333 .327.660
    Suzuki 464 57 125 15 2 1 2729   .269 .311 .317.628

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/split/109/sort/OPS/order/true/minpa/400

    Here's the top CF with a minimum of 400 PA...

    PLAYER AB R H2B 3B  HR RBI SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Kemp 407 67 129 23 3268428.317.394.580 .974
    Granderson 415 100 114 18 9288621.275.364.564 .927
    Ellsbury 458 84 147 31 2197231.321.377.522 .899
    McCutchen 411 60 112 26 4156417.273.375.465 .839
    Jones 424 50 125 21 2206910.295.333.495 .829
    Cabrera 469 71 142 29 3136214.303.337.461 .798
    Bourn  449 67 137 27 713441.305.363.403 .766
    Young 423 69 10327 3165316.243.322.435 .757
    Rasmus 375 64 9117 612455.243.324.416 .740
    Crisp 396 58 10922 553637.275.330.394 .724

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/cf/sort/OPS/minpa/400
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Clown, it's compared to CF! You compare him to #2 hitters, in NY. Clown!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Fangraphs says Ellsbury is better than Granderson:


    But wadda they know about baseball?

    -Daf. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]You minimized his previous bit hits by saying he had to do it over the weekend against the Yanks and CC I never said anything of the kind. I don't make comments about what a player "must do over a weekend". Paranoid, you are.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    You did say that during the Indians series.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]You are the one who needs to save face. Granderson is having a career MVP season, Ellsbury is not. And one game or even one season does not make a career and a "superstar". You are intoxicated after that cryer down the pesky pole line. Key hits were Crawford and Scutaro, .280's OPB for Crawford and all. Game was already depressurized by groupies get drunk Ellsbury hysteria. I disdain McCarver, but his comment "more homers in one season than an entire career" seem to put it in perspective. Agon's addition is the unseen difference maker, in his own numbers and those in front of him. Ellsbury in San Diego numbers would be nice to see. Agon is not popular in Boston, to the point of being disrespected by this silly "MVP season for Ells" nonsense.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Keep whining.  Here is the quote from Girardi...

    “That was the one that hurt us,” manager Joe Girardi said. “We got two runs off Lackey and they dropped a crooked number on us.”

    Ellsbury, who drove in Boston’s first run in the third with a sacrifice fly, added a two-run single in the eighth against Hector Noesi and finished with six RBIs.

    Ellsbury was the man yesterday and has been all year.  Your career norms number will steadily change.  It may pain you bu the rest of us are pretty happy.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    No, Jim, I didn't say that.

    Ellsbury was the man yesterday and has been all year

    Agon is the man, all year. Yesterday, Crawford was "the man".
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]No one likes softylaw or likes agreeing with him, but I have to say Granderson is in fact having a colossal year and a better year than Ellsbury.  I also agree that yesterday Crawford's hitting was huge.  He got the first Sox hit, a double, and scored the first run (on Jake's sac fly).  Later he got the next big rally started.  That said, Jakes dinger took the game from 4-3 Sox to 7-3 Sox, and that was also pretty big.  Plus the dinger was  nowhere near the foul pole and went about 370 feet.  No one else got a dinger off Sabathia, for whatever that's worth.  And that walkoff dinger Wed night went about 430 feet or so, it is foolish of softylaw to continue to preach that Jake's swing is defective and doesn't have real power.  My candidate for AL MVP remains Adrian Gonzalez--MLB leader in rbi's, great hitter, great fielder, and cool dude. Playing RF a couple of times on that NL road trip from hell is to me prima facie evidence that here is a great player who wants to win.   He is proving that you don't have to hit a zillion dingers--which is softylaw's only criterion for hitting ability--to be effective.  In this case, it's also very smart because of the RF and RC depth at Fenway and the lovely green monster in LF.  I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that Ortiz, Ellsbury, and Crawford are all hitting more to left because of AGon's example.  JD Drew, on other hand, wouldn't be caught dead hitting to left field.  He may have multiple skills, but sure could use a brain. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Max, comparing Ellsbury to Granderson is Softy's way of moving the goal post.  I am unconcerned with Granderson's stats.  He is having a great season.  I don't care if he wins the MVP.  The point is, Ellsbury is having a great year for the Sox and is giving them EVERYTHING they could ask for.  To use a season when he could only play 18 games as some sort of measure of ability is kind of disingenuous, don't you think?  That is Softy's MO.  Softy would have more credibility if he used the other years and left off 2010.  2011 sort of shows that Ellsbury has steadily improved through hard work and health.  his trajectory was delayed by the rib injury.  Now he is on the right path.  Will he be better next year?  Who knows.  Even if he is not, as long as he drives the offense from the top of the order, I'll be happy.  he does not need to hit 20 homers, but it is nice to see.  If Theo lets him walk because of the salary demands, the Sox will be chasing a replacement for years.  The same way folks beg for Masterson or Hanley to return, they will be saying the same about Jacoby.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ummm Yanks fans whining about cheap homers??? I give them credit they never let facts get in the way of their arguments. As another poster pointed out, Pesky pole homers may be "cheap" but the wall immediately shoots out. Compare that to the short porch in RF at Yankee Stadium. Fenway more difficult to hit a homer to RF then Yankee Stadium period.

    As for the MVP talk of Granderson vs Ellsbury who cares? They are both having monster years- let's win a WS and you can keep MVP trophies.

    As long as Jeter continues winning Gold Gloves I couldn't care less about sportswriters handing out awards.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Softy, may i ask exactly what you are judging Ellsbury on?...i appreciate your take on Grandy, but putting comps aside for a sec, and looking at him in terms of HIS TEAM...what's the crime in admitting Ellsbury is in the midst of a great offensive season?...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]No, you can't run from those numbers. Bias and bigotry is bad character. Granderson is a first class guy, like Jeter. I disdain the Yankee way, but not all of the players. Granderson is the class in AL CF, by far.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    yes,we could use granderson to back up ells=MVP+MVP+MVP+MVP+MVP+MVP
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    softwoman is just madd that ellsbury has better all around numbers on the field, at the plate and running the bases. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Softy, may i ask exactly what you are judging Ellsbury on?...i appreciate your take on Grandy, but putting comps aside for a sec, and looking at him in terms of HIS TEAM...what's the crime in admitting Ellsbury is in the midst of a great offensive season?...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    Hey Jete,

    The best part of this entire debate is that we get the chance to marvel at how well both guys are playing...Granderson since becoming a yank worked hard on being more compact, shorter to the ball and closing his stance and the results have been very positive. Though he still strikes out a bit too much for my taste. In looking at his season to date, perhaps the most impressive stat is that his home road splits are almost identical with 14 homers home and away. So his "power" numbers are not mearly a by product of playing in a stadium that is built for a guy with his swing. 

    Ellsbury too is having a career year and regardless of what the author of this thread opins on his past, current and future ability. Trying to paint him as less than is frankly silly. He knows, that I know, that he knows, he's doesn't truly belive what he writes, it's all a sad attempt to rasie the ire of the many zealots that live breath and eat all things Red Sox...

    The bottom line Ellsbury's pretty good ball player and is just know reaching his prime. To paint it any other way is to be uninformed!
     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]You are the one who needs to save face. Granderson is having a career MVP season, Ellsbury is not. And one game or even one season does not make a career and a "superstar". You are intoxicated after that cryer down the pesky pole line. Key hits were Crawford and Scutaro, .280's OPB for Crawford and all. Game was already depressurized by groupies get drunk Ellsbury hysteria. I disdain McCarver, but his comment "more homers in one season than an entire career" seem to put it in perspective. Agon's addition is the unseen difference maker, in his own numbers and those in front of him. Ellsbury in San Diego numbers would be nice to see. Agon is not popular in Boston, to the point of being disrespected by this silly "MVP season for Ells" nonsense.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Moronic posturing; check the career arcs of hundreds of players for their prime groove

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Softy, may i ask exactly what you are judging Ellsbury on?...i appreciate your take on Grandy, but putting comps aside for a sec, and looking at him in terms of HIS TEAM...what's the crime in admitting Ellsbury is in the midst of a great offensive season?...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    It would mean that his gigantic ego would take a shot because he would have to admit he is wrong..it goes waaay beyond playing the "devil's advocate"

    I like granderson..hes not only a great player, but a quality person..Genuinly good guy..Softy's just trying (and Failing miserably) to save face when all is lost for his case against Ells.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : You are such a fool!  The Pesky pole is 302 and the field quickly moves out to 380, which is where the home run went.  Not that it matters.  it was a huge hit at the time because it gave the Sox a cushion in case Lackey struggled, which he did.  If he didn't get the DP turned, the Yanks could have had a big inning.  For you to minimize clutch hits like that just because you don't like the guy is a "you" problem, not an Ellsbury problem.  You minimized his previous bit hits by saying he had to do it over the weekend against the Yanks and CC.  Now that he has, you say the HR was cheap.  No HR is cheap vs. CC.  You have ZERO credibility.
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    I was thinking the same thing; as far as the rest of your post is concerned, this is called, as harness & moon calls it. moving the goal posts.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Obsess much Softie?  Give it up man, it may appear Ells may be playing over his head and yup, may be having a career season.  But guess what - maybe it's the "start" of something and not a statistical "wierd" year like the one Brady Anderson had back in the day.  Besides, even if Ells doesn't reach these numbers again, but attains about 2/3rd's of them - he'd still be better than any other option for us in CF.  So why don't you try to save what little credibility you have on this board and select another "windmill" to tilt at.  Because the Ellsbury windmill is kicking your you-know-what.
    Posted by gr82bme[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, and I said the same thing on another thread

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Softy neglects to mention that Granderson hits in that bandbox right field with the wind tunnel effect called Yankee Stadium....Most of Jake's bombs have been into the bullpen or over it.....Let's face it, Softy is a Yankee fan.
    Posted by norm9340[/QUOTE]

    True, except Granderson has 14 HRs at Home, and 14 Away (in 4 less games); check the stats before you post.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]ellsbury...147 hits   granderson...114 (grandy has 33 less hits)               239 t.b                      234                   31 2b                        18 ( grandy has 13 less doubles)                 71 s.o                     121 (wow grandy has 50 more k's)                  31 s.b                       21 (10 less steals)               321 avg                     275 ( 45pts less avg) sorry but numbers dont lie.....granderson cant touch the season ellsbury is putting together. suck it.
    Posted by isurfvb35[/QUOTE]

    Incorrect, since Granderson is 1st or 2nd in several key offensive categories; both are having great seasons.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    steve,

    What happened to Crawford's "prime groove"? Moron!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]No one likes softylaw or likes agreeing with him, but I have to say Granderson is in fact having a colossal year and a better year than Ellsbury.  I also agree that yesterday Crawford's hitting was huge.  He got the first Sox hit, a double, and scored the first run (on Jake's sac fly).  Later he got the next big rally started.  That said, Jakes dinger took the game from 4-3 Sox to 7-3 Sox, and that was also pretty big.  Plus the dinger was  nowhere near the foul pole and went about 370 feet.  No one else got a dinger off Sabathia, for whatever that's worth.  And that walkoff dinger Wed night went about 430 feet or so, it is foolish of softylaw to continue to preach that Jake's swing is defective and doesn't have real power.  My candidate for AL MVP remains Adrian Gonzalez--MLB leader in rbi's, great hitter, great fielder, and cool dude. Playing RF a couple of times on that NL road trip from hell is to me prima facie evidence that here is a great player who wants to win.   He is proving that you don't have to hit a zillion dingers--which is softylaw's only criterion for hitting ability--to be effective.  In this case, it's also very smart because of the RF and RC depth at Fenway and the lovely green monster in LF.  I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that Ortiz, Ellsbury, and Crawford are all hitting more to left because of AGon's example.  JD Drew, on other hand, wouldn't be caught dead hitting to left field.  He may have multiple skills, but sure could use a brain. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Also, he could have had 2 HRS yeterday; the first ball was better struck, and no other BP would have held it, IMO.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]steve, What happened to Crawford's "prime groove"? Moron!
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Name calling; for some a pathetic, often rant-driven, last resort, softy.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Jete, great season isn't for position/Dh players who aren't even in the top 5 of league OPS or best at a position. Career year is what it is. See Drew, 2004, Crawford 2010, etc. etc.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Ummm Yanks fans whining about cheap homers??? I give them credit they never let facts get in the way of their arguments. As another poster pointed out, Pesky pole homers may be "cheap" but the wall immediately shoots out. Compare that to the short porch in RF at Yankee Stadium. Fenway more difficult to hit a homer to RF then Yankee Stadium period. As for the MVP talk of Granderson vs Ellsbury who cares? They are both having monster years- let's win a WS and you can keep MVP trophies. As long as Jeter continues winning Gold Gloves I couldn't care less about sportswriters handing out awards.
    Posted by Wolfpack13[/QUOTE]

    Softy is not a Yankee fan; and besides it wasn't a Pesky pole job; hence your whole premise is shot.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Hey Jete, The best part of this entire debate is that we get the chance to marvel at how well both guys are playing...Granderson since becoming a yank worked hard on being more compact, shorter to the ball and closing his stance and the results have been very positive. Though he still strikes out a bit too much for my taste. In looking at his season to date, perhaps the most impressive stat is that his home road splits are almost identical with 14 homers home and away. So his "power" numbers are not mearly a by product of playing in a stadium that is built for a guy with his swing.  Ellsbury too is having a career year and regardless of what the author of this thread opins on his past, current and future ability. Trying to paint him as less than is frankly silly. He knows, that I know, that he knows, he's doesn't truly belive what he writes, it's all a sad attempt to rasie the ire of the many zealots that live breath and eat all things Red Sox... The bottom line Ellsbury's pretty good ball player and is just know reaching his prime. To paint it any other way is to be uninformed!  
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE] hey Beans, i just don't get it, Ellsbury is tearing it up, why on earth would a Sox fan be upset about that?...like you said Grandy does still K a bit much, but to his credit he doesn't neglect that, i've seen at least 3 different onfield post games where he was talking to Kim, where she talked about how well he's going and the first thing he mentions is how he's not happy about how often he stilll strikse out and will get to work on that...i really like Granderson, so low key but still works hard and plays the game right...i don't about anyone else, but Ellsbury and Granderson are two reasons to love the AL East..
     

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