Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    At least 2 Yankee fans here arguing with an avowed RS fan for`Ellsbury's prowess; what's next by Mr. Desperado, PED accusations?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from saintJ. Show saintJ's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : hey Beans, i just don't get it, Ellsbury is tearing it up, why on earth would a Sox be upset about that?
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    No Sox fans are, Jete.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Define "prowess".
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Jete, great season isn't for position/Dh players who aren't even in the top 5 of league OPS or best at a position. Career year is what it is. See Drew, 2004, Crawford 2010, etc. etc.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]well, i don't know that to be true but before tonight's game i'll take a closer peek at Ells' numbers, but at his age how could you be so certain it's a "career" year...also let me ask..in terms of what you do for your team...do you really have to be top of the charts for your season to be great...what's wrong with having great stats in relation to your team in conjunction with you being among the reasons your team is at the top of the division...besides, no disrespect to JD but IMO Ellsbury is as good as Drew was ever going to be.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]You are the one who needs to save face. Granderson is having a career MVP season, Ellsbury is not. And one game or even one season does not make a career and a "superstar". You are intoxicated after that cryer down the pesky pole line. Key hits were Crawford and Scutaro, .280's OPB for Crawford and all. Game was already depressurized by groupies get drunk Ellsbury hysteria. I disdain McCarver, but his comment "more homers in one season than an entire career" seem to put it in perspective. Agon's addition is the unseen difference maker, in his own numbers and those in front of him. Ellsbury in San Diego numbers would be nice to see. Agon is not popular in Boston, to the point of being disrespected by this silly "MVP season for Ells" nonsense.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    You are so delusional. The gist of the argument about Ellsbury is that he is having such a great year as a lead off batter. Is Granderson batting leadoff? How is Gardner doing as the leadoff hitter for the Yanks? Your hatred for Ellsbury goes a lot deeper than you are letting on and I sure would like to know why you really hate Ellsbury.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Bill Hall was a young CF(?) after his career year!

    February 5, 2007, 5:12 PM ET

    Hall, Brewers agree to four-year, $24M deal

    Associated Press

    MILWAUKEE -- Bill Hall and the Milwaukee Brewers agreed Monday to a $24 million, four year contract.

    Shortstop
    Milwaukee Brewers

    Profile
    2006 SEASON STATISTICS
    GMHRRBIROBPAVG
    1483585101.345.270

    Hall, who is slated to play center field for the Brewers, gets a $500,000 signing bonus, $3 million this year, $4.8 million in 2008, $6.8 million in 2009 and $8.4 million in 2010. The Brewers have a $9.25 million option for 2011 with a $500,000 buyout.

    "We are pleased to know that Billy has made this commitment to the Brewers' organization and to the fans," Milwaukee general manager Doug Melvin said. "His mentality for accepting the team concept, his work ethic to get better every year and his improving performance gave us the confidence needed in committing to this multiyear contract. Billy has worked hard to deserve this kind of contract and we are looking forward to having him lead our club to the next level."

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Power Shift: Red Sox Sign Crawford

    Mike Carlson/Associated Press

    Carl Crawford, who played for Tampa Bay since 2002, will join A.L. East rival Boston for a reported $142 million for the next seven years.

    ORLANDO, Fla.

    Related

    Bats

    Keep up with the latest news on The Times's baseball blog.

    Major League Baseball

    Yankees

    Mets

    Kathy Willens/Associated Press

    Yankees fans will be able to continue watching Carl Crawford, who agreed to terms with Boston.

    The Yankees have seen Carl Crawford from the beginning, from his first month in the majors with Tampa Bay in 2002. They have seen him slash line drives into gaps and over fences. They have seen him charge around the bases and soar to snag fly balls that seemed destined to fall. They have seen him lead his team to the top of the standings.

    “He’s a difference maker for any club he goes to,” Yankees Manager Joe Girardi said Wednesday. “He changes the complexion of the game.”

    The Boston Red Sox, of course, have seen the same things as the Yankees. And when Crawford reached an agreement to switch sides in the American League East late Wednesday night, he went with the Red Sox. The Yankees never made him an offer, and may live to regret their decision.

    Crawford agreed to a contract with the Red Sox, according to a baseball official who was told of the deal. The official was granted anonymity so he could speak about another team’s transaction. The Boston Globe was the first to report that Crawford would get $142 million for the next seven years.

    The Crawford signing is the second megadeal by the Red Sox in the past week, coming days after their trade with the San Diego Padres for first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. With two moves — and probably about $300 million, including the reported $160 million contract extension for Gonzalez — the Red Sox have seized the favorite’s spot in baseball’s toughest division.

    The Yankees had a chance to make this move. Instead of pursuing Cliff Lee, the Yankees could have tried to sign Crawford, then use left fielder Brett Gardner as part of a package to land starter Zack Greinke from the Kansas City Royals.

    The Yankees had enough interest in Crawford for General Manager Brian Cashman to dine with Crawford and his agent, Brian Peters, on Tuesday night. But they determined they could not afford to sign Crawford while also trading for Greinke, who makes $27 million over the next two seasons.

    So the Yankees believed it was wiser to stick with their existing outfield of Gardner, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher, which helped them lead the majors in runs scored last season. Why, then, were they entertaining Crawford only 24 hours before news broke of his agreement with Boston?

    As baseball’s economic superpower, the Yankees consider everything. And they guessed — accurately, it seems — that their presence in the Crawford talks could drive up his price for one of their rivals.

    The Angels had seemed the most aggressive pursuers of Crawford. Their center fielder, Torii Hunter, had openly campaigned for him, and since losing Chone Figgins, the Angels have needed a dynamic producer at the top of their order. But apparently, Boston needed Crawford more.

    In pulling off the moves for Gonzalez and Crawford, the Red Sox have done what they tried to do after the 2003 season: replace two superstars with two other superstars in the same off-season. Then, they tried to shed Nomar Garciaparra and Manny Ramirez and bring back, in separate deals, Magglio Ordonez and Alex Rodriguez. The plan failed when the union vetoed a restructuring of Rodriguez’s contract.

    This time — once a formal contract is announced — the Red Sox have done it. They have already let Victor Martinez sign with the Detroit Tigers, and they will not bring back Adrian Beltre, the All-Star free-agent third baseman. Both were dangerous hitters. But Gonzalez and Crawford should be much better, and neither has yet reached his 30th birthday.

    The Red Sox still need to upgrade their bullpen. But with Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, their rotation is loaded.

    Everything suggests that the balance of power in the division has shifted their way.

    Tampa Bay won the East this past season, a game better than the Yankees, and the Rays will have the talented rookie Desmond Jennings to take over for Crawford. But they will miss him dearly, and they know it.

    “I don’t know that I’ll really wrap my mind around that until spring training when he actually slaps you in the face — or slaps you in the face with another team,” Rays Manager Joe Maddon said on Wednesday, when asked about Crawford’s pending departure. “Listen, he’s a good guy. He’s a good player. He’s earned this moment, and we all wish him well.”

    The signing of Crawford, who becomes baseball’s highest-paid outfielder, only increases the intense pressure on the Yankees to sign Lee. They have offered six years and about $140 million, a risky investment for a 32-year-old pitcher.

    Deals of $100 million for pitchers rarely work out. Just ask the teams who invested in Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton and Barry Zito. There is considerable injury risk as pitchers move into their mid-30s, and if a control artist like Lee loses zip on his fastball, there is no telling how he would adjust.

    But with a rotation of just C. C. Sabathia, Phil Hughes and A. J. Burnett, and perhaps Andy Pettitte, the Yankees really have no choice. They have to sign Lee. But even if they do, the Red Sox still look better.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]No, Jim, I didn't say that. Ellsbury was the man yesterday and has been all year Agon is the man, all year. Yesterday, Crawford was "the man".
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    So Crawford single handedly dismantled the Yankees with 6 RBI's? Guess I was watching the wrong game.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Incorrect, since Granderson is 1st or 2nd in several key offensive categories; both are having great seasons.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    I agree:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Define "prowess".
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Are you kidding? Fine, let's go with skill.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Guess you didn't watch Crawford break the tie and Scutaro provide a 2 run lead. Guess you are too busy slobbering over a run padding cryer down the line in a game that was already pressure shifted to Yankees. Crawford, bad as he has been, received zero credit for 4-4 and key RBI hit to rattle CC. Oh well, the next Ted Williams is in the spotlight and light.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillallbost08. Show stillallbost08's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Guess you didn't watch Crawford break the tie and Scutaro provide a 2 run lead. Guess you are too busy slobbering over a run padding cryer down the line in a game that was already pressure shifted to Yankees. Crawford, bad as he has been, received zero credit for 4-4 and key RBI hit to rattle CC. Oh well, the next Ted Williams is in the spotlight and light.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    let me get this staight...sox win 10-4 and everyone gets credit for a good game except JE with his 6 rbi. I guess w/o him the sox still would have won 4-4...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ellsbury's getting all of the credit for "a great game/superstar/greatness". No one else is getting any serious non-patronizing credit at all, on Boston media or Board bunker.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : let me get this staight...sox win 10-4 and everyone gets credit for a good game except JE with his 6 rbi. I guess w/o him the sox still would have won 4-4...
    Posted by stillallbost08[/QUOTE]
    Come on, Ellsbury's role as a lead-off hitter is to get on base, not to hit three-run jacks and drive in six ribbies!!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillallbost08. Show stillallbost08's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury's getting all of the credit for "a great game/superstar/greatness". No one else is getting any serious non-patronizing credit at all, on Boston media or Board bunker.  
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    6 rbi can do that for a player.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Granderson's job is to get on base for Tex and Cano. Not to hit 28 homers and OPS as top CF'er. Didn't Ellis Burks or Grissom have 6 RBI"S?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from saintJ. Show saintJ's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Come on guys, you know Softy is right.  I mean according to him Granderson is a better player then Hall of Famer Ricky Henderson ever was.  Ricky never went over 28 HRs or 74 RBIs in any one year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Softy's goalpost movements on Jake:

    2009: 
    (Spring) "Jake will never have a .330+ OBP"
    (Early-Mid season) "Jake needs to have .330+ over the whole season".
    (A little later) ".340 is just barely acceptable for a leadoff hitter"
    (Later still) "Jake needs to be at above .340 at the end of the season"
    (Later) "Jake will never have a .350 OBP.)
    (Later) "Leadoff is about runs scored not OBP" (Later he recanted)
    (Season end) "Jake will never have a career .340 OBP"
      Jacoby Ellsbury finished with a .355 OBP in 2009.
      The beginning of the "career norm" argument.
      The beginning of the "But, look at Jake's OBP at leadoff" argument.
      The beginning of the "Jake does not have the power needed at leadoff"
      The beginning of the "Sell Jake high" insane argument.

    Jacoby's career OBP is now .355.
    Jacoby has greatly improved his leadoff OBP (.345 career/.384 in 2011)
    Jitterbug, reverse pivot Jake is on pace for about 28 HRs and 75 EBHs.
    Selling Jake after 2008 was not his "high point". 

    Softy's goalpost is made of Balsa Wood for easy quick movements.

    Now, it's all about "OPS vs LHPs" and "AGon's influence" 2 slots away in the line-up. Now, because Jake is not the very best ML OF'er and is only 3rd best. He is a let-down.

    The silly clown is becoming hideous. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    I've never seen a real fan be so upset when a player excels, and exceeds his expectations.

    Sheesh.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    The leadoff hitting argument used to be softy's ace card. He has since folded that hand and is reaching for anything else.

    I thought softy was all about career norms, and now he brings up "Jake vs LHPs", well here is Jake's career norms on that issue:

    OBP vs LHPs: .348
    OBP vs RHPs: .354

    Here are Jacoby's 2011 numbers projected to about 700 PAs:

    .321/.377/.522/.899
    HRs: 27
    RBI: 100
    Runs: 117
    2B/3B: 45
    Extra Base Hits: 72
    SB: 43
    CS: 14
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    [QUOTE]You are the one who needs to save face. Granderson is having a career MVP season, Ellsbury is not. And one game or even one season does not make a career and a "superstar". You are intoxicated after that cryer down the pesky pole line. Key hits were Crawford and Scutaro, .280's OPB for Crawford and all. Game was already depressurized by groupies get drunk Ellsbury hysteria. I disdain McCarver, but his comment "more homers in one season than an entire career" seem to put it in perspective. Agon's addition is the unseen difference maker, in his own numbers and those in front of him. Ellsbury in San Diego numbers would be nice to see. Agon is not popular in Boston, to the point of being disrespected by this silly "MVP season for Ells" nonsense.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Don't you mean Crawbust?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    As this thread proves it is pretty easy to humiliate Softy and prove him an ignorant hateful non-fan with egg all over his face after years of wrong predictions, opinions and racist statements about Ellsbury.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Granderson is 30. Ellsbury is 27.

    Granderson's best year actually came in 2007. At age 26. Fangraphs had him worth 31 million that year. That season he was just entering his prime so fans should have expected his prime to consist of many more 2007 seasons, when they didn't and his OBP was a concern, the Tigers traded him.

    If Softy had any intelligence he would know that the jump Grandy made from his age 25 to 26 year was similar to Ellsbury from 25 to his current age 27 year (after the broken ribs eliminated 2010) and point out that Granderson regressed after his crazy 20-20-20-20 season and was traded before free agency (like Ells might be).

    Of course we never get any insight or real intelligence from our reviled court jester. Just the same negative hate from a non-sox fan.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Not to take anything away from Granderson, but I would think that the vast majority of G.M.s , Mgr.s , scouts and players in baseball , not to mention the fans , would agree that Ellsbury is the better all around player.  One cannot just list those stats that favor Granderson , and leave out those that do not. The fact is that Ellsbury is hitting 46 points higher than Granderson while steadily narrowing the home run difference.  Ellsbury's OBP is 13 % higher than Granderson's.  Ellsbury has struck out 49 fewer times than Granderson. Defensively, Granderson has three errors. Ellsbury has none. In fact, Ellsbury has a total of two errors in his career. To attribute this to aggressiveness or lack of same, is not reflected in the stats. The fact is that Ellsbury has 20 more putouts than Granderson , with just one fewer assist.  They are both outstanding players, having great seasons. The simple truth is that Ellsbury is the better all around player.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ells career is shaping up like an elongated version of Granderson, just as he is turning into a similar version of him skill-wise.

    Granderson was worth 15 million in 2006 and then made a major jump to 31 million in 07, was worth 19 in 08 before coming back down to earth with a couple of 14 million seasons before now putting up a 21.5 at age 30. A 4 year avg of being worth 17 million.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4747&position=OF
     

Share