Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ells avg'd 15 million in 08/09.. would have broken out in 2010 w/o the rib injury and is now worth 26.9 million at age 27 (note: this season he is worth 5.4 million MORE than Granderson, and he is only 1 year older than Granderson when he broke-out in 2007).

    Over the next 4 seasons I can see Ells 'regressing' back down to .290/.360 #'s with HR's in the teens for 1-2 years (17-19 million seasons)... then also having 1-2 years at .310/.370 with 22-25 HR's (21-24 million seasons) for an avg worth of 20 million a year.

    Boras is licking his chops

    Ellsbury is better than Granderson NOW, is 3 years younger and if you look at the way their careers panned out the similarities are compliments and a projection of a scary next 4 years for Ells. Who I'm 99% sure NOT go back to his age 24-25 career #'s, and even if he cannot sustain his 2010 for 4 years in a row, he'll do close to them again one or twice with his 'bad' seasons being better than 08/09 and worth 18+ million.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from saxydogg77. Show saxydogg77's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Softserve's increasingly rapid descent into madness is almost complete.  Can't say I feel any sympathy for the racist tool.  His singular, obsessively hateful mindset is one of the more entertaining things on the Internet these days, however.    
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ram, remember when softy slammed you for comparing Jacoby to Damon?

    Damon at 
    24  .277/.339/.439/.779 26/38 SB/ SB Atts
    25  .307/.379/477/.856  36/42 SB/SB atts
    26 .327/.382/.495/.877 46/55 (KC)  Damon's best OPS year
    27 .256/.324/.363/.687 27/39 (Oak)
    28 .286/.356/.443/.799 31/37 (Bos)
     (This was after 2 and a half years of MLB experience from ages 21-24)

    Ellsbury:
    24 .280/.336/.394/.729  50/61 SB/SB Atts
    25 .301/.355/.415/.770  70/82 
    26  injured
    27 .321/.377/.522/.899  31/41 so far

    Damon had 7 years with an OPS over .800 (3 in NYY). 
    His career highs are:
    BA:  .327, .316, .307
    HR:   24 (NY), 24 (NY), 20 
    2B/3B: 52, 48, 45
    EBHs: 68, 64, 63, 
    SB: 46, 36, 31
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    Not to take anything away from Granderson, but I would think that the vast majority of G.M.s , Mgr.s , scouts and players in baseball , not to mention the fans , would agree that Ellsbury is the better all around player.  One cannot just list those stats that favor Granderson , and leave out those that do not. The fact is that Ellsbury is hitting 46 points higher than Granderson while steadily narrowing the home run difference.  Ellsbury's OBP is 13 % higher than Granderson's.  Ellsbury has struck out 49 fewer times than Granderson. Defensively, Granderson has three errors. Ellsbury has none. In fact, Ellsbury has a total of two errors in his career. To attribute this to aggressiveness or lack of same, is not reflected in the stats. The fact is that Ellsbury has 20 more putouts than Granderson , with just one fewer assist.  They are both outstanding players, having great seasons. The simple truth is that Ellsbury is the better all around player.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Perhaps, but this falls under the category of cherry picking, in my opinion. The Yankees are more than happy with Granderson; they're not thinking to themselves; he's good, but I wish we had Ellsbury instead; it's the old Willie, Mickey or the Duke debate; more of the my DADDY is better than YOUR DADDY stuff. And NOW the error thing comes up (And a whole 3 at that)? When the Jeter low error factoid was discussed (and this is a far greater issue at SS); it was dissed here like there's no tomorrow; this is nothing than more of the same fandom based posturing.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    Softy's goalpost movements on Jake: 2009:  (Spring) "Jake will never have a .330+ OBP" (Early-Mid season) "Jake needs to have .330+ over the whole season". (A little later) ".340 is just barely acceptable for a leadoff hitter" (Later still) "Jake needs to be at above .340 at the end of the season" (Later) "Jake will never have a .350 OBP.) (Later) "Leadoff is about runs scored not OBP" (Later he recanted) (Season end) "Jake will never have a career .340 OBP"   Jacoby Ellsbury finished with a .355 OBP in 2009.   The beginning of the "career norm" argument.   The beginning of the "But, look at Jake's OBP at leadoff" argument.   The beginning of the "Jake does not have the power needed at leadoff"   The beginning of the "Sell Jake high" insane argument. Jacoby's career OBP is now .355. Jacoby has greatly improved his leadoff OBP (.345 career/.384 in 2011) Jitterbug, reverse pivot Jake is on pace for about 28 HRs and 75 EBHs. Selling Jake after 2008 was not his "high point".  Softy's goalpost is made of Balsa Wood for easy quick movements. Now, it's all about "OPS vs LHPs" and "AGon's influence" 2 slots away in the line-up. Now, because Jake is not the very best ML OF'er and is only 3rd best. He is a let-down. The silly clown is becoming hideous. 
    Posted by moonslav59


    I love his constant references to the "Ted Williams hype" when it was only the elderly Johnny Pesky, once, 3 years ago that made that rather silly comparison.  Like the lawyer he claims to be, he believes that constantly repeating lies will eventually give them the sheen of truth.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Perhaps, but this falls under the category of cherry picking, in my opinion. The Yankees are more than happy with Granderson; they're not thinking to themselves; he's good, but I wish we had Ellsbury instead; it's the old Willie, Mickey or the Duke debate; more of the my DADDY is better than YOUR DADDY stuff. And NOW the error thing comes up (And a whole 3 at that)? When the Jeter low error factoid was discussed (and this is a far greater issue at SS); it was dissed here like there's no tomorrow; this is nothing than more of the same fandom based posturing.
    Posted by nhsteven

    Not criticizing Granderson for the three errors.  Only pointing out that Ellsbury has none , and has only committed two in his MLB career. Some posters , maybe not you , have criticized Ellsbury's defensive ability. Just trying to set the record straight.  As for Jeter, I have never dissed his ability, either offensively or defensively. He is , without doubt , a great all around player. First ballot Hall of Famer for certain.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Not criticizing Granderson for the three errors.  Only pointing out that Ellsbury has none , and has only committed two in his MLB career. Some posters , maybe not you , have criticized Ellsbury's defensive ability. Just trying to set the record straight.  As for Jeter, I have never dissed his ability, either offensively or defensively. He is , without doubt , a great all around player. First ballot Hall of Famer for certain.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Ellsbury has the potential to be a great CFer; just a few klinks regarding occasional approaches to balls he takes, and that can be learned; the arm is underrated too, and accurate.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Softy:
    Do you think Ellsbury cares one twit about your constant, negative drivel? I think not, and neither do we.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    Ram, remember when softy slammed you for comparing Jacoby to Damon? Damon at  24  .277/.339/.439/.779 26/38 SB/ SB Atts 25  .307/.379/477/.856  36/42 SB/SB atts 26 .327/.382/.495/.877 46/55 (KC)  Damon's best OPS year 27 .256/.324/.363/.687 27/39 (Oak) 28 .286/.356/.443/.799 31/37 (Bos)  (This was after 2 and a half years of MLB experience from ages 21-24) Ellsbury: 24 .280/.336/.394/.729  50/61 SB/SB Atts 25 .301/.355/.415/.770  70/82  26  injured 27 .321/.377/.522/.899  31/41 so far Damon had 7 years with an OPS over .800 (3 in NYY).  His career highs are: BA:  .327, .316, .307 HR:   24 (NY), 24 (NY), 20  2B/3B: 52, 48, 45 EBHs: 68, 64, 63,  SB: 46, 36, 31
    Posted by moonslav59


    AWESOME points and stats Moon.

    Softy blew off any Damon comparisons based on OBP and power (always NY enhanced) and dismissed Ells slighty superior speed ages 24-25 and likely much superior speed ages 27+ as worthless.

    I always said Ells would hit HR's in the teens by his 2nd or 3rd year, topping out around 20 in his prime. That he would have an OBP in the .360's by his 3rd year topping out at around .375 for his prime (that starts in a players 4th season or age 26-28).

    This year has been a nice surprise, but despite his current heat could still end at 'just' 23-26 HR's w/ a .370 OBP. But 30/.385 are not out of the equasion either. As you know I always said in NY Ellsbury would be a 25 HR .380 guy in his prime.

    Softy was so enraged and jealous (he has mental problems and should seek help) after a few pink hats said 'ted williams' after '07 that he started this vendetta, filled with racist comments, childish nicknames and hatred towards Ells.

    All his predictions and baseball opinions on Ells, so shameful when we know his personal opinions towards him, have been proven 100% WRONG season after season. The ONLY prediction I ever blew was that of a 13-16 HR season in 09, as I expected steady improvement in power on par with what he ended up doing with avg and OBP. But he has blown by 14-17 Hr prediction for last season/this season out of the water already.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    softwoman has no clue the historic season ellsbury is having batting leadoff, no clue whatsoever, even boston.com wrote an article about it a few weeks ago, he hasnt posted in a while, maybe because the beatdown he is taking in here is just too much.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MarstanJr. Show MarstanJr's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    As this thread proves it is pretty easy to humiliate Softy and prove him an ignorant hateful non-fan with egg all over his face after years of wrong predictions, opinions and racist statements about Ellsbury.
    Posted by rameakap


    Literature on conflict resolution suggests that labeling participants in Internet discussions as trolls can perpetuate the unwanted behaviors. A person rejected by a social group, both online and "IRL", may assume an antagonistic role toward it, and seek to further annoy or anger members of the group. The "troll" label, often a sign of social rejection, may therefore perpetuate trolling.

    Better results normally ensue when users take the moderator role and describe more constructive behaviors in a non-judgmental, non-confrontational way. Trolls are excited by trollhunters and frustrated by ignorers, and neither of these emotions produce positive results for the forum. Engaging trolls results in "flame wars". Trolls frustrated by the "ignore strategy" may leave the forum (and either troll elsewhere, or become constructive users) or may become progressively more inflammatory until they get a response.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Ram, remember when softy slammed you for comparing Jacoby to Damon? Damon at  24  .277/.339/.439/.779 26/38 SB/ SB Atts 25  .307/.379/477/.856  36/42 SB/SB atts 26 .327/.382/.495/.877 46/55 (KC)  Damon's best OPS year 27 .256/.324/.363/.687 27/39 (Oak) 28 .286/.356/.443/.799 31/37 (Bos)  (This was after 2 and a half years of MLB experience from ages 21-24) Ellsbury: 24 .280/.336/.394/.729  50/61 SB/SB Atts 25 .301/.355/.415/.770  70/82  26  injured 27 .321/.377/.522/.899  31/41 so far Damon had 7 years with an OPS over .800 (3 in NYY).  His career highs are: BA:  .327, .316, .307 HR:   24 (NY), 24 (NY), 20  2B/3B: 52, 48, 45 EBHs: 68, 64, 63,  SB: 46, 36, 31
    Posted by moonslav59


    AWESOME points and stats Moon. 

    Softy blew off any Damon comparisons based on OBP and power (always NY enhanced) and dismissed Ells slighty superior speed ages 24-25 and likely much superior speed ages 27+ as worthless.

    Going by softy's "career norm" criteria:

    Damon:  .286/.354/.434/.788  HR/162 gm: 15, EBH/162: 56, SB/162: 27/34
    Ellsbury: .298/.352/.434/.786  HR/162 gm: 14, EBH/162: 53, SB/162: 59/71

    Amazingly similar, except for BA and SB
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    Ram, remember when softy slammed you for comparing Jacoby to Damon? Damon at  24  .277/.339/.439/.779 26/38 SB/ SB Atts 25  .307/.379/477/.856  36/42 SB/SB atts 26 .327/.382/.495/.877 46/55 (KC)  Damon's best OPS year 27 .256/.324/.363/.687 27/39 (Oak) 28 .286/.356/.443/.799 31/37 (Bos)  (This was after 2 and a half years of MLB experience from ages 21-24) Ellsbury: 24 .280/.336/.394/.729  50/61 SB/SB Atts 25 .301/.355/.415/.770  70/82  26  injured 27 .321/.377/.522/.899  31/41 so far Damon had 7 years with an OPS over .800 (3 in NYY).  His career highs are: BA:  .327, .316, .307 HR:   24 (NY), 24 (NY), 20  2B/3B: 52, 48, 45 EBHs: 68, 64, 63,  SB: 46, 36, 31 Posted by moonslav59 AWESOME points and stats Moon.  Softy blew off any Damon comparisons based on OBP and power (always NY enhanced) and dismissed Ells slighty superior speed ages 24-25 and likely much superior speed ages 27+ as worthless. Going by softy's "career norm" criteria: Damon:  .286/.354/.434/.788  HR/162 gm: 15, EBH/162: 56, SB/162: 27/34 Ellsbury: .298/.352/.434/.786  HR/162 gm: 14, EBH/162: 53, SB/162: 59/71 Amazingly similar, except for BA and SB
    Posted by moonslav59


    Wow thats nuts, great stuff

    The biggest laugh is that a 2 year career ages 24-25 should ever be considered a 'career norm' for a man entering his prime of course:-)

    Ok gotta leave for the game, bleachers seats, lets hope its not a washout
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season : Wow thats nuts, great stuff The biggest laugh is that a 2 year career ages 24-25 should ever be considered a 'career norm' for a man entering his prime of course:-) Ok gotta leave for the game, bleachers seats, lets hope its not a washout
    Posted by rameakap

    Especially for someone who went to college and got a late MLb start (as compared to someone like Damon or CC).

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    In Response to Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season:
    In the 11 head-to-head matchups between the Red Sox and Yankees this year Ellsbury has been far superior. Ellsbury .381 7 extra-base hits 13 RBI Granderson .233 4 extra-base hits 8 RBI
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut

     Both Granderson and Ellsbury are having terrific seasons but I do love these stats and think they are very telling. Thanks.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

     well here is Jake's career norms on that issue:

    OBP vs LHPs: .348
    OBP vs RHPs: .354

    You make my case, old Tampa won't go away fool.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxFan2OO4. Show RedSoxFan2OO4's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    228 negative posts in 7 days, you have reached a new low Softy. Good thing it's called MVP award not the MVP-Not in San Diego Award. Any case could be made for MVP for Pedroia, Ells, Gonzo, and even Granderson. Bautista does not have a case, he's gone cold and rarely have MVP's been given out to teams 11 games back in August that will hardly compete in their own division for the rest of the season.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    well here is Jake's career norms on that issue:

    OBP vs LHPs: .348
    OBP vs RHPs: .354

    You make my case, old Tampa won't go away fool

    The "case made" was that they are nearly identical. Most players have much larger differentials, and yet you use a .006 differential as something that we should be greatly concerned about. You silly clown.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    It just might be that Softlaw is a plant in the Globe office  with two employees doing him on consecutive eight-hour shifts. There is no doubt that Softlaw is good for their business. Has anyone ever purchased anything by coming to this forum? The advertisers must think so..
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Right now, the big difference between the two is that Jake is entering his prime.2011 morphs any year he ever had, which isn't uncommon for a full 3rd year player.

    Granderson is hitting .275, just 6 points over his career norm.
    He hit .302 in '07.    .280 in '08.
    His current OBP jives with what he did in both those years.
    His OPS is 14 points higher than in '07. It's propelled by a career high HR season, which is the result of adjusted hitting mechanics.
    His doubles/triples pale in comparison to 2007/8, which is likely venue based.

    With less hitting motion, he's likely to continue this trend beyond this year.
    As will Jake.

    The idea of each having "career years" and assuming both will revert back to "career norm" is short-sighted.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Young Centerfielder Having MVP Season

    Nightshift at the Globe appears to most to be west coast posters.
     
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