Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    The guy is worth more than Jacoby and gives us a legitimate leadoff hitter.  Choo would also put the yankees back in the mix if they grab him and beef up their pitching because he pretty much erases Cano's value at a much cheaper price. 

    Come on Ben, replace an every day starter with a better one.  No need to throw JBJ in CF and hope for the best just yet unless we have guys like Choo and Victorino in the corners.

    We need this guy!

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Who exactly would Choo replace for the Sox?  How about for the Yanks?

    So we would pay over $100 million for a guy who is Daniel Nava?  I thought we already had that guy for about say... $100 million less.  The margin of upgrade between a Gomes and Nava platoon is so marginal between them and Choo, that it makes no sense to sign him.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daniel-nava-jonny-gomes-and-throwing-out-the-platoon/

     the Red Sox left fielders put up the team’s most valuable season for the position since 2009, also known as “the last year Jason Bay was any good”.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    The Sox don't need Choo but maybe Beltran. JBJ is your CF with a b/u of either Davis or Gutierrez.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    The Sox don't need Choo but maybe Beltran. JBJ is your CF with a b/u of either Davis or Gutierrez.



    Why do we need Beltran?  I already posted that we had one of the most productive left field positions in baseball.  We have Victorino in right already and Beltran can't play center... that and we would give up our first round draft pick to sign him for his year 38, 39 and 40 seasons...

     I think you are spot on with Gutierrez though... maybe even Davis.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better


    Choo makes the Sox better if the Yanks sign him.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Since Ellsbury and Cano won the deals over the owner, Choo is going to make sure he will demand as much money as he can.  He will not come in cheap for either Yankees or Boston.

    Forget it!!

    Boston need to worry about if Bogaerts is capable to play SS or resign Drew and find a good power hitting 1b.  There are alot of out there.   CF may not be important anymore cuz every single OF are demanding too much money!!!  Use Bradley or maybe make a trade with the Dodgers!!   Probably would save Boston a huge amount of money!!

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Choo and victorino should be the sox RF/CF's.  Pick which one plays where, frankly it would hardly matter.  Gomes/Nava/Carp in LF is fine.  JBJ is eihter on the bench or AAA.  He is not ready to try to take over for Ellsbury yet.  Last year proved that.  He may be part of a trade as well.  Sox need Choo, beltran, or Kemp to replace ellsbury.  Our current crop of OF's will not cut it.  They also need naps or another 1B.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to fl+adam,'s comment:

    Choo and victorino should be the sox RF/CF's.  Pick which one plays where, frankly it would hardly matter.  Gomes/Nava/Carp in LF is fine.  JBJ is eihter on the bench or AAA.  He is not ready to try to take over for Ellsbury yet.  Last year proved that.  He may be part of a trade as well.  Sox need Choo, beltran, or Kemp to replace ellsbury.  Our current crop of OF's will not cut it.  They also need naps or another 1B.



    Yeah Pedroia proved in 2006 that he couldn't handle second base as well, but the Sox gave him the job before the season... seems to have worked out

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pedrodu01.shtml

    Oh wait... that looks very similar to JBJ's stats in his first 100 at bats

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bradlja02.shtml

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Raja = yes

    Choo = no

    Beltran = God no!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    Who exactly would Choo replace for the Sox?  How about for the Yanks?

    So we would pay over $100 million for a guy who is Daniel Nava?  I thought we already had that guy for about say... $100 million less.  The margin of upgrade between a Gomes and Nava platoon is so marginal between them and Choo, that it makes no sense to sign him.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daniel-nava-jonny-gomes-and-throwing-out-the-platoon/

     the Red Sox left fielders put up the team’s most valuable season for the position since 2009, also known as “the last year Jason Bay was any good”.



    Only common thing Nava and Choo share is high OBP.  Choo has better speed, power, arm, and probably glove.  Nava is $100M cheaper because he started his pro career at the age of 24, wasn't really a top prospect, only has 3 yrs of major league service, doesn't have a super agent.  I know Choo will get overpaid but you can't compare Nava and Choo equally.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

     

    Who exactly would Choo replace for the Sox?  How about for the Yanks?

    So we would pay over $100 million for a guy who is Daniel Nava?  I thought we already had that guy for about say... $100 million less.  The margin of upgrade between a Gomes and Nava platoon is so marginal between them and Choo, that it makes no sense to sign him.  Look at the stats and you will see that we honestly have Choo in Nava already for $100 million less...

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daniel-nava-jonny-gomes-and-throwing-out-the-platoon/

     the Red Sox left fielders put up the team’s most valuable season for the position since 2009, also known as “the last year Jason Bay was any good”.

     



    Only common thing Nava and Choo share is high OBP.  Choo has better speed, power, arm, and probably glove.  Nava is $100M cheaper because he started his pro career at the age of 24, wasn't really a top prospect, only has 3 yrs of major league service.  I know Choo will get overpaid but you can't compare Nava and Choo equally.  

     

     




     

    Player A (5th in the league for outfielders OPS)

    288 Avg, 389 OBP, 465 SLG, 885 OPS

    Player B  (11th in the league for outfielders OPS)

    274 Avg, 369 OBP, 413 SLG, 831 OPS

     

    Those are career numbers for both Choo and Nava.  Choo is horrible on defense and does have a bit more power than Nava, but not $100 million worth.  Choo is also a player who can't hit lefties and could use a platoon mate and has bigger splits than Nava. 

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/6205/shin-soo-choo

    612 OPS vs. Lefties

    1.011 OPS vs Righties

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/30910/daniel-nava

    647 OPS vs. Lefties

    895 OPS vs. Righties

    www.cbssports.com/mlb/.../shin-soo-choos-offense-defense-a-study-in...

    Reds leadoff man and center fielder Shin-Soo Choo has been incredible with the bat and pretty terrible with the glove so far this season.

     

    http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp#sectionType=sp&sortColumn=ops&season=2013&league_code='MLB'&statType=hitting&game_type='R'&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&season_type=ANY&page=1&ts=1386358193000&position='O'

    for outfielders; Nava was 11th in the league in OPS ahead of Beltran and we see Choo at 5th in the league

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    Who exactly would Choo replace for the Sox?  How about for the Yanks?

    So we would pay over $100 million for a guy who is Daniel Nava?  I thought we already had that guy for about say... $100 million less.  The margin of upgrade between a Gomes and Nava platoon is so marginal between them and Choo, that it makes no sense to sign him.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daniel-nava-jonny-gomes-and-throwing-out-the-platoon/

     the Red Sox left fielders put up the team’s most valuable season for the position since 2009, also known as “the last year Jason Bay was any good”.

    JBJ has done absolutely nothing at the major league level yet this is the second year in a row some fans think he can step right in and help.  Carp is a liability defensively, Gomes and Nava equal one which is why they platoon and Brentz adds up to another future platoon player.

    Our only reliable every day OF left is Victorino's if he can stay in the lineup.  Our 3B position already rests on a rookie or Middy who is a horrible OB guy and 1B has yet to be filled along with SS where Drew was also awful at the plate.  Papi remains our only reliable power bat (again if he remains healthy) and we just lost our best leadoff batter and SB guy.       

    If Choo isn't the answer please tell me who you prefer and please don't say Davis because he is another platoon guy who's best production would be replacing Gomes.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Peter Gammons said the Red Sox are in on Choo. But of course that changes now that the Yankees lost Cano.Take it for what it is worth.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better


    Raja......

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Unfortunately Seattle saved Yankees from themselves:  they can get three decent player for what they were going to spend on   a soon to be aging Cano

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    Since Ellsbury and Cano won the deals over the owner, Choo is going to make sure he will demand as much money as he can.  He will not come in cheap for either Yankees or Boston.

    Forget it!!

    Boston need to worry about if Bogaerts is capable to play SS or resign Drew and find a good power hitting 1b.  There are alot of out there.   CF may not be important anymore cuz every single OF are demanding too much money!!!  Use Bradley or maybe make a trade with the Dodgers!!   Probably would save Boston a huge amount of money!!

     




    Honestly, I think theyre more worried about Middy at 3b than Xander at SS.

    Choo makes no sense. I already was trying to make the Choo/Nava comparison. Sure Choo is a better OBP, but not by a lot. I can handle a .380 OBP and a 300BA from Nava. That, and hes more versitile, OF/1b. and all for 500K, not 100M. waste of $$$.

    Look for either Lackey or Doubront to be in a traded. About 8 teams have asked about them and if the deal makes sense, it will get done. Maybe they fill a hole that way. By signing 2 RHP for the pen, the next logical move is to lose one of the 7 starters you have.

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Peavy, Dempster, Workman, Doubront

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    Since Ellsbury and Cano won the deals over the owner, Choo is going to make sure he will demand as much money as he can.  He will not come in cheap for either Yankees or Boston.

    Forget it!!

    Boston need to worry about if Bogaerts is capable to play SS or resign Drew and find a good power hitting 1b.  There are alot of out there.   CF may not be important anymore cuz every single OF are demanding too much money!!!  Use Bradley or maybe make a trade with the Dodgers!!   Probably would save Boston a huge amount of money!!

     




    Honestly, I think theyre more worried about Middy at 3b than Xander at SS.

    Choo makes no sense. I already was trying to make the Choo/Nava comparison. Sure Choo is a better OBP, but not by a lot. I can handle a .380 OBP and a 300BA from Nava. That, and hes more versitile, OF/1b. and all for 500K, not 100M. waste of $$$.

    Look for either Lackey or Doubront to be in a traded. About 8 teams have asked about them and if the deal makes sense, it will get done. Maybe they fill a hole that way. By signing 2 RHP for the pen, the next logical move is to lose one of the 7 starters you have.

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Peavy, Dempster, Workman, Doubront

     



    Id rather they trade dempster or doubront out of that group... 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Peavy or Dempster

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Choo is almost a platoon player, look at his splits.  As he starts aging do we expect that to get better or worse???

    Now consider the market this year and what the other FA considered the top guys this year.  WIth Cano and Ellsbury signing for what they did Choo will easily be looking for 20+/YR for 7 years.

    Whoever signs Choo is going to really really reallly really really really really X 1,000,000,000 times regret that decision. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Only 3 big free agents I have interest in left.....Choo-Drew-Napoli.

    If its a choice between Choo at 18-20 million or Napoli for 15-16 million, I choose Choo. Choo would be perfect in Fenway. A poor man's Wade Boggs. And his defense would be better in left then some think.

    But I would be cool with a 1 year deal for Naps or Drew. Maybe 2 for Naps.

    As for what the Yankees do the rest of the off season, it doesn't matter. Worry about the Rays.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

     

    Who exactly would Choo replace for the Sox?  How about for the Yanks?

    So we would pay over $100 million for a guy who is Daniel Nava?  I thought we already had that guy for about say... $100 million less.  The margin of upgrade between a Gomes and Nava platoon is so marginal between them and Choo, that it makes no sense to sign him.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daniel-nava-jonny-gomes-and-throwing-out-the-platoon/

     the Red Sox left fielders put up the team’s most valuable season for the position since 2009, also known as “the last year Jason Bay was any good”.

     

     

    JBJ has done absolutely nothing at the major league level yet this is the second year in a row some fans think he can step right in and help.  Carp is a liability defensively, Gomes and Nava equal one which is why they platoon and Brentz adds up to another future platoon player.

    Our only reliable every day OF left is Victorino's if he can stay in the lineup.  Our 3B position already rests on a rookie or Middy who is a horrible OB guy and 1B has yet to be filled along with SS where Drew was also awful at the plate.  Papi remains our only reliable power bat (again if he remains healthy) and we just lost our best leadoff batter and SB guy.       

    If Choo isn't the answer please tell me who you prefer and please don't say Davis because he is another platoon guy who's best production would be replacing Gomes.

     




    a 777OPS for a MLB SS is one of the top 5. Drew was hardly awful. streaky? yes. awful? no way.

    Middy may have a lower OBP but he has 30HR power. Thats the trade off and something you dont give up on after 2 injury filled seasons and some growing pains.

    Im not a fan of Choo getting 100M. thats foolish money for the soon to be 32yo.

    Im thinking there will be a trade with a name none of us thought of too seriously. Choo is NOT the answer though.

    Nava is closer to Choo than you give him credit for. He has closer splits than him. Pretty even with the glove and he has a good arm. Choo is better, but not by 100M.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    Nava had a great year.  He hit way better than he ever had in the majors before.  He also had way more Playing time then ever before.  Is this who he is or a unusually great season?  Only time will tell.  Choo on the other hand has a track record.  He has had .390 OBP 3 times, hit 20hr 3 times, had .800 ops 7 times( 5 with significant games played), and had 20 sb 4 times.  Pretty sure we know who Choo is.  I think he would even excell with the protection of Peddy, Victorino, Ortiz et al behind him.  In the last 3 years he has led off for 2/3 of his at bats, right where we need him.  I think he is the right choice, unless we get a great deal on kemp.  Nava is a nice player.  Maybe he can take over 1B, or LF.  Choo is the better fielder being RF and CF for virtually all of his career.  I don't think it is an either or.  I think they both play big roles, but Nava by himself is a big step down from Jake and Nava last year.  JBJ is also a total unknown.  He may be the next Ken Griffy, or he may be the next guy washed out of the league.  We just don't know what he can do up here yet.  Time will tell.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    Since Ellsbury and Cano won the deals over the owner, Choo is going to make sure he will demand as much money as he can.  He will not come in cheap for either Yankees or Boston.

    Forget it!!

    Boston need to worry about if Bogaerts is capable to play SS or resign Drew and find a good power hitting 1b.  There are alot of out there.   CF may not be important anymore cuz every single OF are demanding too much money!!!  Use Bradley or maybe make a trade with the Dodgers!!   Probably would save Boston a huge amount of money!!

     




    Honestly, I think theyre more worried about Middy at 3b than Xander at SS.

    Choo makes no sense. I already was trying to make the Choo/Nava comparison. Sure Choo is a better OBP, but not by a lot. I can handle a .380 OBP and a 300BA from Nava. That, and hes more versitile, OF/1b. and all for 500K, not 100M. waste of $$$.

    Look for either Lackey or Doubront to be in a traded. About 8 teams have asked about them and if the deal makes sense, it will get done. Maybe they fill a hole that way. By signing 2 RHP for the pen, the next logical move is to lose one of the 7 starters you have.

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Peavy, Dempster, Workman, Doubront

     



    Last season after watching all the moves and pieces put into place I predicted we would make the playoffs where many ppredicted a 500 season at best.  I will now wait until all is said and done to make a prediction for 2014.

    What I will say is, if the Sox start both JBJ and Bogy without replacing Ells with a real every day (major league ready) player, or making the proper adjustments early on next season we will suffer.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    The Sox don't need Choo but maybe Beltran. JBJ is your CF with a b/u of either Davis or Gutierrez.

     



    Why do we need Beltran?  I already posted that we had one of the most productive left field positions in baseball.  We have Victorino in right already and Beltran can't play center... that and we would give up our first round draft pick to sign him for his year 38, 39 and 40 seasons...

     

     I think you are spot on with Gutierrez though... maybe even Davis.

    I only include Beltran as a possible addition in the event Napoli walks, I should have clarified my position.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Your move Ben, Choo makes Yanks or Sox better

    In response to BMav's comment:

    Only 3 big free agents I have interest in left.....Choo-Drew-Napoli.

    If its a choice between Choo at 18-20 million or Napoli for 15-16 million, I choose Choo. Choo would be perfect in Fenway. A poor man's Wade Boggs. And his defense would be better in left then some think.

    But I would be cool with a 1 year deal for Naps or Drew. Maybe 2 for Naps.

    As for what the Yankees do the rest of the off season, it doesn't matter. Worry about the Rays.




    Choo is not a good defender, but I agree that he would be good in LF at Fenway, but not great.  That also puts more pressure on the bat, and he is effectively a platoon player.  He had a .612 OPS vs. LHP last year and a career line of .680 He has mediocre power and not real plus tool set except his ability to walk.

    Coming into an age 31 season next year I'd be very afraid to pay that man 20 million dollars a year. 

     
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