Yu Darvish

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    Yu Darvish

    Another Japanese pitcher, look at this guy

    http://youtu.be/rLGB69siot8
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    Please no more Japanese pitchers, please.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    Let someone else have this "superstar" coming from Japan...there has never been a successful pitcher come over from that league to the MLB circuit.
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]Let someone else have this "superstar" coming from Japan...there has never been a successful pitcher come over from that league to the MLB circuit.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]
     
    True.  The difference with Dravish being that he is still young and is not too indoctrinated into the Japanese pro league.  He could be molded more than the usual established Japanese superstar pitcher who comes over.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]Let someone else have this "superstar" coming from Japan...there has never been a successful pitcher come over from that league to the MLB circuit.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    Depends on what is the definition of successful...

    Hideo Nomo when he toiled for the Dodgers was pretty good...So too was Kazuhiro Sazaki who closed games for the 2001 Mariners, and was among the best and once held the record for the most saves by a rookie...Kuroda with Dodgers, now a free agent is a pretty good ML pitcher...Daisuke Matsusaka who won 16 games and struck out over 200 and Hideki Okajima was our primary set-up guy....Both of whom played key roles on our 2007 championship team...

    That said, I would pass on Davish because the cost of aquisition posting fees plus contract...What I will say is the only Japanese player that has delivered on the promise of stardom was Ichiro followed closely by Matsui. Thus if one expect Darvish to be an ace they might be disapointed in the results...

    So if your definition of success is for every Japanese pitcher to be Pedro? Than I concur. There's never been a successful Japanese Pitcher...
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    The thing is, Daisuke was only a bust because people expected him to be an ace. He was a solid #3-#4 starter, and at times better.  If we downplay our expectations for Yu Darvish, I have no doubt that we will view it as a good move. If we pay a $25m posting fee, and then give him a 4 year 48m dollar contract, I don't think the move will be as big a bust.  Plus, Darvish had much better accuracy than Daisuke in Japan.
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    My only question is - what is considered a fair price for a solid 3-4 starter?  Is it 50 mil to the Japanese league to sign him and then another 50 mil 3-4 year contract like Dice-K?  I just think for 100 mil investment the Sox could do better waiting for a pitcher of MLB caliber rather than hoping they are signing a pitcher that will be a success.  Dice-K was a mild success but for the 100 mil they gave him probably could have been solidly in the bidding for Haliday or Lee by adding a bit more.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    Forget it!!  If Boston ever get him, the posting fee would be around 55 to 75 millions dollars, and his asking price per year is going to be 10 to 15 millions a year. After we all saw Lackey being out of the season at the same time Darvish struggles in year one.  Then we could see more than 28 millions dollars from these two pitchers not getting their job done for the club.

    It isnt happening!!


     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]My only question is - what is considered a fair price for a solid 3-4 starter?  Is it 50 mil to the Japanese league to sign him and then another 50 mil 3-4 year contract like Dice-K?  I just think for 100 mil investment the Sox could do better waiting for a pitcher of MLB caliber rather than hoping they are signing a pitcher that will be a success.  Dice-K was a mild success but for the 100 mil they gave him probably could have been solidly in the bidding for Haliday or Lee by adding a bit more.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    Dice was the #1 free agent target in the winter of 2006. Clearly Matsusaka even at his best fell short of what was expected and while there were warning signs. Coming off an MVP performance in the World Games where he shutdown some pretty good lineups. While he never lived up to the hype and certainly wasn't a 100M dollar pitcher by any standard of measure, he was, when healthy, a pretty good #3 and has something that neither Haladay or Lee have and that's a Ring!

    End of the day the greatest difference aside from the quality of hitters faced. Is that the ball is smaller in Japan and the laces are higher. Thus it's easier to grip the ball and you get more bite on splitters and slider...the laces also help you get more run or tail on your fastball and changeup...The lighter ball also add a mile or two on the top end velocity. So while I agree we should not overspend in hopes of finding the next Pedro. There are many Japanese pitchers that have had success and are today solid big league pitchers....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    I'm a huge Darvish advocate - the posting fee is easily recouped by expanding the fan base, and the salary is likely under $10M / year.  I think a lot of people don't grasp what that means - a Sabathia or a CJ Wilson are just as likely to stink over the next 7 years their next contracts will demand, but with twice the luxury tax liability.

    By the way, there have been a lot of successful Japanese pitchers in recent years - Koji Uehara has the lowest WHIP of any reliever in baseball this year.  Hiroki Kuroda has been very successful.  Takashi Saito was great for us, and is still coming up big at age 41!  Look at the year Ryan Vogelsong had after spending the past five in Japan.  We're missing out if we take this head in the sand view.

     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    "the posting fee is easily recouped by expanding the fan base"

    I'd love to hear your explanation of this.
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]Let someone else have this "superstar" coming from Japan...there has never been a successful pitcher come over from that league to the MLB circuit.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    You, sir must be an idiot! Nomo had great seasons here in the US as did Matsuzaka in '07 for the redsox helping them to a world series! Do your stinkin homework before blowing your horn
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    Jader isn't an idiot - he is trolling. Put him onto Ignore - then his posts won't bother you.
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    Yankees
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]I'm a huge Darvish advocate - the posting fee is easily recouped by expanding the fan base, and the salary is likely under $10M / year.  I think a lot of people don't grasp what that means - a Sabathia or a CJ Wilson are just as likely to stink over the next 7 years their next contracts will demand, but with twice the luxury tax liability. By the way, there have been a lot of successful Japanese pitchers in recent years - Koji Uehara has the lowest WHIP of any reliever in baseball this year.  Hiroki Kuroda has been very successful.  Takashi Saito was great for us, and is still coming up big at age 41!  Look at the year Ryan Vogelsong had after spending the past five in Japan.  We're missing out if we take this head in the sand view.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]


    thanks for the knowledge and reasoned thoughtfulness.
    (instead of reactionary branding of someone based on where he's born).
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]I'm a huge Darvish advocate - the posting fee is easily recouped by expanding the fan base, and the salary is likely under $10M / year.  I think a lot of people don't grasp what that means - a Sabathia or a CJ Wilson are just as likely to stink over the next 7 years their next contracts will demand, but with twice the luxury tax liability. By the way, there have been a lot of successful Japanese pitchers in recent years - Koji Uehara has the lowest WHIP of any reliever in baseball this year.  Hiroki Kuroda has been very successful.  Takashi Saito was great for us, and is still coming up big at age 41!  Look at the year Ryan Vogelsong had after spending the past five in Japan.  We're missing out if we take this head in the sand view.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    The problem with all the pitchers you bring up is that they are relievers and not  #1 or #2 starters and nobody bid 50 mil to have a chance to sign them. Nomo who was a successful pitcher while over here only compiled a W-L % a bit better than .500. I don't call .500 starters successful or Wake would be a superstar on this team. I have no issues with signing BP players from Japan with a low contract but am not for taking on unknown stars that seldom work out and stick the team with their contract as Dice-K did...and yes a healthy Dice-K could have been a great signing by the Sox but it didn't happen. With CC and Lackey contracts already on the books, Drew finally gone...don't see committing big bucks to another FA type.
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    I'd put my money on Aceves being the best #4 starter the Sox can find. I don't want to hear "well in 3 starts he was 1-2 with a 4.6 ERA." Make him a starter now. It appears much easier to find relievers than starter. Plus he can give us 200 innings instead of 80.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    Aceves will be an on-the-cheap starter and assuming no injuries...the Sox will get a really good #3/4 starter.  I hate to see Paps walk but he has already said he will test the market and you can bet that teams will be interested in him.  I don't see the Sox in any trade talks that amount to much since they really don't have a lot that other teams would want other than the ability to take a high contract off of their hands which always can lead to pleasant and unexpected pick ups.  Theo pretty much decimated a once good farm system as Sox fans got the chance to see last season when the Sox called up everyone with any ability in the AAA realm. 

    No matter - the Sox will compete successfully in the AL East regardless of off season changes.  Their core nucleus is that good even if Papi walks.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yu Darvish : The problem with all the pitchers you bring up is that they are relievers and not  #1 or #2 starters and nobody bid 50 mil to have a chance to sign them. Nomo who was a successful pitcher while over here only compiled a W-L % a bit better than .500. I don't call .500 starters successful or Wake would be a superstar on this team. I have no issues with signing BP players from Japan with a low contract but am not for taking on unknown stars that seldom work out and stick the team with their contract as Dice-K did...and yes a healthy Dice-K could have been a great signing by the Sox but it didn't happen. With CC and Lackey contracts already on the books, Drew finally gone...don't see committing big bucks to another FA type.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    Kuroda is a starting pitcher and is probably the third best arm on the US FA market this year.  Vogelsong is a starter and he had the lowest ERA on a staff that carried the Giants to a World Series in 2010. 

    The nay-sayers basically point to three guys - Nomo, Irabu & Dice-K.  Nomo and Irabu last pitched in the Japan in 1994 and 1996 respectively.  You don't think the Japanese leagues have improved in the past 15 years?   As for Dice-K, his stuff is as good as advertised; it's his command that has hurt him.  Darvish has a 6/1 K/BB ratio at 24 years of age. Do it!  


     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Yu Darvish

    Yes Dice K did helped the Sox to win a world series, but he was the #5 starter on the roster.  And worse part he is making 8 millions to 10 millions dollars a year. Pretty embarrassing for a team to pay that much money to a #5 starter!!!  

    So therefore, you want Darvish to be a #5 starter at the same time he is making 12 something millions dollars a year?  

    That is Way too much to pay a guy that no one can predict how he will do in the MLB level.  Let someone else over-pay him.  Then in four years from now, if he prove that he is a worthy top 3 rotation starting pitcher, then that is a good time for Boston to spend money on him via free agency.

     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]I'd put my money on Aceves being the best #4 starter the Sox can find. I don't want to hear "well in 3 starts he was 1-2 with a 4.6 ERA." Make him a starter now. It appears much easier to find relievers than starter. Plus he can give us 200 innings instead of 80.
    Posted by Wolfpack13[/QUOTE]

    I like the idea of making Aceves a starter.  Not sure who they will find to replace him in the bullpen, but I have no doubt that he would be a very good starter. 
     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    In Response to Re: Yu Darvish:
    [QUOTE]Yes Dice K did helped the Sox to win a world series, but he was the #5 starter on the roster.  And worse part he is making 8 millions to 10 millions dollars a year. Pretty embarrassing for a team to pay that much money to a #5 starter!!!   So therefore, you want Darvish to be a #5 starter at the same time he is making 12 something millions dollars a year?   That is Way too much to pay a guy that no one can predict how he will do in the MLB level.  Let someone else over-pay him.  Then in four years from now, if he prove that he is a worthy top 3 rotation starting pitcher, then that is a good time for Boston to spend money on him via free agency.
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    The Sox thought they had a good idea what they were getting from Lackey.  The Yankees thought they had a good idea what they were getting from Burnett.  You don't think Sabathia or CJ Wilson are gambles over the next 7 years?  Dice-K may not have lived up to the hype, but he's getting paid like a bottom of the rotation starter on a big market team.  Fangraphs values him at $45M, and that's with half his US career lost to injuries.


     
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    Re: Yu Darvish

    Slomag I am in your corner on this one. I have written extensively on why I believe Darvish would be the best addition they Sox could make to their rotation this year and going forward. I also agree that the posting fee value is overblown in the eyes of fans. The posting fee is not apart of the contract, not taxed by the current CBT, and the investment into a foreign star would increase revenues to neglect th value of the posting fee.

    People need to think logically about Darvish as a potential addition instead of just looking at him, seeing a Japanese pitcher, and automatically assuming he will fail because DiceK and and Kei Igawa did.

    Is CJ Wilson for 6 years better than Darvish for 6? NO ONE knows! But I'd be willing to bet on it...
     

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