1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    I still think Theo will find a way to get a big bat for the team before the beginning of next season. Hanley Ramirez's name has shown up in Boston's radar and I think we all would like to have him. In an article from the NY Post, Joel Sherman discusses Boston's search for a big bat to complement Big Papi and mentions Josh Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez, Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Joe Mauer as players the Sox should look into.

    Truth is, the Sox have the players to trade to get Hanley Ramirez or Josh Hamilton or Lance Berkman. The question is will Theo do it? You have to give something to get something. I forget where I read it but it was an article about how the Rangers GM Jon Daniels believe his team will contend in 2010 not 2009 so this means they are rebuilding. How about trading for both Hamilton and Saltalamacchia in a 5-6 players deal.

    Buccholz, Bowden, Ellsbury, prospect for Hamilton and Saltalmacchia. Would you do it?

    Who would you like to see more in a Sox uniform next season: Hanley Ramirez or Josh Hamilton? I go with Hanley Ramirez. Just because you never know with Hamilton. We all know his history and root for him but with a drug addiction you just never know when someone might have a relapse. At the same time this would work in the Sox advantage because that might be a reason for the Rangers to trade him. The uncertainty around him.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Agreed. I personally don't like the thought of Hanley Ramirez here-- whether it be at CF or SS. The reason I say this is that his defense isn't great and he has had character questions in the past. We just finally got rid of a Ramirez with questionable defense and character issues-- I don't want another one. I won't be so foolish to say that he isn't a great player or that he won't be a perennial MVP candidate-- I just don't think he's the answer.

    The main strengths that this team has been built on are pitching and defense. I think that the Sox need to find a young guy who can fit that mold because while offense will always go into slumps, defense doesn't have to. And again, even Mike Lowell said that having the constant in solid defense can help you to get through offensive slumps and losing streaks-- just having one thing that you can count on to be there every day is something that a team can build momentum around.

    So to answer your question stomackit10452, I think that Hamilton is better suited to be our answer and to build around going forward. And I have also said for a while now that I do believe Texas and the Sox to be ideal trade partners (as well as the Sox and San Diego) because we both have the solutions that can address several of each other's needs. Some guys we'd be looking at are Hamilton, Byrd, Young, Saltalamacchia/Teagarden, etc. We know that Texas wants pitching. In the event that we landed Hamilton then they would also want Ellsbury. I really do think that these 2 teams will get something done at some point because they do appear to be the perfect match.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ufcchamp. Show ufcchamp's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    I saw that speculative article and the first thing I thought was...is that guy on the Globe forum?
    The threat of relapse and the 2nd half tailoff would bring Hamilton's value down a bit...the old "sell high" theory may make it possible but I doubt it.
    I'd trade for Ramirez over Hamilton because of age and familiarity. I know he and Pedroia are friends.
    If the Sox truley believe that all these young guys are gonna be good major leaguers than I say keep them. Personally I really prefer rooting for home-grown guys.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuckhndrsn. Show chuckhndrsn's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    in a heartbeat and i am a big ellsbury fan. i like that hamilton trade myself moreso than the ramirez. berkman is too old and beltran too expensive.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DWIGHTRIGHT. Show DWIGHTRIGHT's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    hamilton is too much of a religious fanatic; very boring and quite honestly not anywhere near as good offensively as hanley. so if you're going to trade the farm, get the best; the best is hanley.
    only problem with hanley is his last name; brings back recent bad memories.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from txHeat. Show txHeat's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    First of all, as dumb as the Rangers usually are, they won't part with Josh Hamilton.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Agreed that Beltran would cost too much and there is nothing to suggest that Ellsbury doesn't have more upside given his low cost.

    ufcchamp (Liddell-Jackson-Griffin-Evans-whoever has the next shot),
    As far as Hamilton's numbers dropping off towards the end of the season... He has admitted that he wasn't used to the grind of the full season and wasn't prepared for it. (I can try to find you the article.) I read that he is already training hard to prepare himself for this season knowing now what to expect.

    OV,
    Ortiz wasn't able to help the other Ramirez with his character issues. I think the problem with an ML player's maturity issues is this: You have these guys who play a game for a living. They are essentially babied regularly. Then you get a guy like a Manny or a Hanley who gets paid at a young age without having to mature to do so. So the question then is "what will it take for these guys to actually grow up?" They're already rich and spoiled. They've already done enough growing up to get themselves and their family set for their lives.

    Why do people ultimately want money? Because money buys you the freedom to do whatever you want. But what good is having the money to be able to do whatever you want if (a) you can't live wherever you want for 8-9 months a year? and (b) if you still have to "work" for 8-9 months a year (at least)? So then they start getting frustrated knowing that no matter how rich they are they are still slaves to their contracts. Then they become disinterested. Then they become "problems in the clubhouse." That's how it all begins. The point is that the already-rich guys with maturity issues rarely change. It's the guys who's #1 goal isn't the money-- it's the game-- that change. The ones who want the championships, the Gold Gloves and the spot in the Hall of Fame. Not the ones who hope to miss the postseason so they can have an extra month off.

    That being said, what better character guy is there than Josh Hamilton-- a guy who overcame major drug addiction and found religion and now is on the right path, and because he CHOOSES to be on the right path? That's why I'm voting Hamilton over Hanley.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from COSTANZA. Show COSTANZA's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Edison Volquez for Josh Hamilton... 'Nuff said.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan84. Show redsoxfan84's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    [Quote]hamilton is too much of a religious fanatic; very boring and quite honestly not anywhere near as good offensively as hanley. so if you're going to trade the farm, get the best; the best is hanley.
    only problem with hanley is his last name; brings back recent bad memories.[/Quote]

    Relgious fanatic?? He's a Christian hardly a fanatic...he's quiet, hardly boring. I would be thrilled to see him playing for the Sox, but I don't see Texas parting with him.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Carnob52. Show Carnob52's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    i dont know why everybody is thinking we can get josh hamilton all of a sudden. i think texas would be very reluctant to trade him. i could see hanley but i dont know why everybody wants to move him to center. he would be best at short stop, this is where he has been most productive. i am willing to take four or five errors if he pays for it with his bat. if we do get hanley i believe he should hit leadoff because that is where he is most productive. this year florida tried putting him in the three spot and it didnt work out he was not nearly as productive as he was in the leadoff spot.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Carnob52,
    The whole Josh Hamilton thing came about because of an article in the New York Post suggesting that the Sox could be/should be targeting him. Obviously Texas would be reluctant to trade him, but so would Theo in regards to moving Buchholz, Ellsbury, etc. The point is that both teams can help to fill each other's needs so they do make for good trading partners here.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    If I'm the Jon Daniels, GM of the Texas Rangers, I'm thinking to myself there's no way I'm trading Hamilton. But If Theo calls me and gives me a list of players like Ellsbury and Bucchholz I can choose from then I'd have to listen. This trade is unlikely to happen but not impossible. Texas has had success in acquring good prospects from the Sox (Eric Gagne Trade) so they know the Sox prospects are very talented. I could see a mega trade involving Hamilton, Young, and Saltalamacchia for a package of something like Bucchholz, Bowden, Ellsbury, Bard.

    With a move like this the Sox would address their 3 offensive needs: Shorstop, Centerfielder (cleanup hitter), and catcher.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Exactly what I'm saying stomackit10452. And great reference with the Gagne trade, too. After the 2007 season many people complained about the deal but at the time it made sense. To me there was some good in it because if players from your farm are traded and are regularly turning out to be solid ML players then it increases the value of your prospects throughout the league.

    And Texas does make their far share of big trades, too. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was Texas & Milwaukee that made that huge swap last offseason, wasn't it?

    That would be ironic if Ellsbury & Murphy ended up playing beside each other in the outfield again after all.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    RS0407-1

    All I know is Theo have to do something quick. The main thing is getting a catcher. I think bringing back Tek is no longer an option because they failed to get Teixeira. Having Tek, Ellsbury, and Lowrie in the lineup (all players are question marks offensively) would be too much for this lineup to handle. If nothing is done, I wouldn't rule out batting Pedroia, our MVP, third to give him a more important role in the lineup. If people are willing to put Mauer in the middle of this lineup, then why not Pedroia who had a better season than Mauer with more pop. 20 hrs is nothing to sneeze at.

    I wonder what would it take to get David Wright from the Mets. Probably more than Hanley. I like Hanley more though.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    I gotta disagree with you there. I still say that Tek is coming back-- even if we DO trade for Saltalamacchia. Don't forget-- money aside he probably WANTS to be here! Many people may forget that in the '04 negotiations he did step in and tell Boras to just get a deal done. Don't overlook that factor.

    Ok, I'm just gonna assume for fun that we do a trade with Texas for Hamilton & Young. Here's what our lineup might look like:

    1. (R) Dustin Pedroia
    2. (R) Kevin Youkilis
    3. (L) David Ortiz
    4. (R) Jason Bay
    5. (L) Josh Hamilton
    6. (R) Mike Lowell
    7. (L) J.D. Drew
    8. (R) Michael Young
    9. (S) Jason Varitek/Josh Bard

    Not bad, eh? What do you think?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    I don't know RS04,
    Why would they sign Bard to later get Salty and resign Tek. I think Tek is not coming back. With Bard they have an experienced catcher and the only thing left to do is get a young catcher of the furure.
    Your proposed lineup would be lethal.
    I think fans are not giving Jason Bay a fair chance to prove himself. We all talk about getting a guy who can hit .300 or close to and 30 homers. Isn't that guy Jason Bay? Would he thrive in the middle of the lineup. I think so. Actually, if nothing else, I think Bay should get an extension. Whether we get another bat or not, I think Bay should be the left fielder for the next 3-4 years at least.

    Lineup:

    Pedroia (R)
    Drew (L)
    Youkilis (R)
    Ortiz (L)
    Bay (R)
    Lowell (R)
    Ellsbury (L)
    Bard/Tek/Salty
    Lowrie (S)

    Thoughts?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    It's funny cause many people complain but (a) with that lineup of players who we ALREADY HAVE we have a good team and (b) you are right-- Jason Bay is being overlooked in a huge way. And I agree-- assuming he is as good (or close to it) as he was in '08, he should be our LF for the next bunch of years.

    As far as the catching situation goes, Bard's deal is not guaranteed. That means that they could either cut him or (I believe-- not 100% sure) that they have the option of sending him to AAA. And with the flexibility of being able to move your 2 backup catchers to the minors then it makes a lot of sense. I have thought all along that even if we did get Saltalamacchia then he'd spend this season (or at least the first half) in AAA.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    When Bard was traded to SD for Mirabelli I was really pissed. Then he went to bat .300 for them. He even bat cleanup at some point. I think Bard is a good offensive catcher. Who the hell will catch Wakefield now? The Yankees signed him just to keep him away from the Sox because they don't need him having Posada and Molina. I wish Wakefield retires. I've had enough of him. I will never forget game 4 of ALCS. I almost punched my flat screen tv.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    I agree about Bard being traded in '06 and I agree that I hope Wakefield retires. I love the guy but the problem is that he does require his own catcher. If you think about it, he'd be ideal for the bullpen between the fact that he doesn't need much rest, he could be your long-man and if he came in late after a guy was seeing completely different stuff all day (97+) then they'd be even more screwed up swinging at a knuckleball. The problem with that scenerio, though, is that he'd need to have HIS personal catcher coming out of the pen with him. It would be one thing if your top-of-the-rotation guy needed his own catcher. Having one for your #5 (I'm calling Penny #4) just doesn't make sense. And we all saw first hand in 2006 that he does need one.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    RS04,

    Aside from the fact that Wake needs his own catcher, the problem with him is that he's not a good pitcher. Look, if for whatever reason Beckett or Lester needed their own personal catcher, no one would complain. But Wakefield is just not that good a pitcher to overlook the problems having him on the team brings.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from gareman2. Show gareman2's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Oh, this is good. This has now switched to a bash Wake forum. Well, for a guy "not that good" he's good enough to be 11th on the career active wins list (two of which have officially retired so they are no longer active placing Wake 9th). I agree, he's no ace but he's been better than "not that good"





    1.
    Greg Maddux (42)
    355
    R


    2.
    Tom Glavine* (42)
    305
    L


    3.
    Randy Johnson* (44)
    295
    L


    4.
    Mike Mussina (39)
    270
    R


    5.
    Jamie Moyer* (45)
    246
    L


    6.
    Kenny Rogers* (43)
    219
    L


    7.
    Curt Schilling (41)
    216
    R


    8.
    Andy Pettitte* (36)
    215
    L


    9.
    Pedro Martinez (36)
    214
    R


    10.
    John Smoltz (41)
    210
    R


    11.
    Tim Wakefield (41)
    178
    R


    12.
    Bartolo Colon (35)
    150
    R


    13.
    Aaron Sele (38)
    148
    R


    14.
    Livan Hernandez (33)
    147
    R


    15.
    Tim Hudson (32)
    146
    R


    16.
    Steve Trachsel (37)
    143
    R


    17.
    Kevin Millwood (33)
    142
    R


    18.
    Tom Gordon (40)
    138
    R


    19.
    Woody Williams (41)
    132
    R


    20.
    Roy Halladay (31)
    131
    R

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from gareman2. Show gareman2's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    And Wake compares favorably to a number of serviceable major leaguers through time (noted below). Again, not aces. But definitely players who had their bouts with success. Wake has been a team player, did what was asked of him, has averaged 200 innings per year and gives us 12-15 wins per when he's a strict starter. Players like this are on every team and are just as valuable as the ones who come with their own chaser lights hovering over their cap.






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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    gareman2,
    I'm not debating that Wakefield is a good pitcher. The 2 issues I have with him are (a) that he requires TWO roster spots while not being your #1 or #2 pitcher and (b) that although he could be one of our most versatile pitchers (starter, reliever, spot-starter, long man, etc.) the fact that he cannot be caught by just any catcher prohibits most of those options and therefore puts a huge damper on his usefullness.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from gareman2. Show gareman2's posts

    09 Center Fielder Hanley Ramirez VS Josh Hamilton

    Yes, but name a team the doesn't have two catchers on the roster. The fact that one must be adept at catching the knuckler is moot to me. Tek - or whoever - would get a day of rest regardless of who was #4 or #5.
     

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