1. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]
    Actually, 14 skaters. There are two senior goalies.
    If, as most here seem to feel, AB did this because they wanted these excellent players and felt that the playing field was not level(SMH,BL,etc), then it was not right. But really all we know is what a blowhard( though I think his heart is in the right place) has posted and a few gossipy snipers have said. As I posted, I KNOW the AB AD would not have been involved.
    It would be interesting to know if the MIAA has denied ANY Middle Level waivers gor Girls Hockey.

    Though I feel for you and your son, you really haven't given us enough detail to know if the decision there was at all valid.[/Quote]

    It is not credible that the AD was not involved in the waiver petitions -- that is part of his or her job.

    14 skaters is perhaps not ideal but it's far from an insuperable obstacle to fielding a team that could practice and play together. And that is all that a program and its participants are owed. They have no fair expectation of any level of succes -- that's up to them and the coach playing the hand they're dealt and facing their opponents. To say they deserved waivers to be competitive is simply wrong.

    My son attended one hs as a freshman and played JV soccer that year. The school seemed to us not to be trying to help him get traction academically. A nearby town had a school choice lottery for 30 9th grade and 5 10th grade spots. We entered it and won a spot for him to enter the 9th grade there the next year. Before we took it discussed things with the principal. One thing we asked was whether our son would be eligible to play in his senior year at the new school. The principal assured us that it was only a matter of applying for a waiver which would be routinely granted. So we took the spot. The principal retired. Our son played freshmen soccer and then two years of varsity at the new school. He practiced and trained hard the summer after his junior year having become a key player. We prepared the waiver request confident that it would be approved as we'd been told it by the retired principal. We went to hearing, told the truth and backed up by the new principal and AD. We were encouraged by the committee's questions and comment.s We left thanking them for their kindness. An hour later we were told that the old principal had been wrong and the waiver was denied. The chairman suggested that my son try to learn from the experience and that he stay involved as manager of the team. He did try but he couldn't bear being there and not playing with his team.

    I learned a lot from this. Most prominently is that a group of petty functionaries were willing to be cruel and destructive and not fix a very unfair and easily fixible situation when it was easier for them to just go through the motions.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    It is not credible that the AD was not involved in the waiver petitions -- that is part of his or her job.

    14 skaters is perhaps not ideal but it's far from an insuperable obstacle to fielding a team that could practice and play together. And that is all that a program and its participants are owed. They have no fair expectation of any level of succes -- that's up to them and the coach playing the hand they're dealt and facing their opponents. To say they deserved waivers to be competitive is simply wrong.

    My son attended one hs as a freshman and played JV soccer that year. The school seemed to us not to be trying to help him get traction academically. A nearby town had a school choice lottery for 30 9th grade and 5 10th grade spots. We entered it and won a spot for him to enter the 9th grade there the next year. Before we took it discussed things with the principal. One thing we asked was whether our son would be eligible to play in his senior year at the new school. The principal assured us that it was only a matter of applying for a waiver which would be routinely granted. So we took the spot. The principal retired. Our son played freshmen soccer and then two years of varsity at the new school. He practiced and trained hard the summer after his junior year having become a key player. We prepared the waiver request confident that it would be approved as we'd been told it by the retired principal. We went to hearing, told the truth and backed up by the new principal and AD. We were encouraged by the committee's questions and comment.s We left thanking them for their kindness. An hour later we were told that the old principal had been wrong and the waiver was denied. The chairman suggested that my son try to learn from the experience and that he stay involved as manager of the team. He did try but he couldn't bear being there and not playing with his team.

    I learned a lot from this. Most prominently is that a group of petty functionaries were willing to be cruel and destructive and not fix a very unfair and easily fixible situation when it was easier for them to just go through the motions.[/Quote] My reference to the AD was meant to say that he would not knowingly be part of gaming the system. Of course he has to submit the waiver.

    The situation with your son does sound like inflexibility by the MIAA. Was he also up against the "aging out" rule or only the 4 seasons rule?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]
    Gossipy? Sniper? Snide Innuendo? High moral ground? Poster who posts? More irony with some of these responses (shame on me for being the only one guilty for such drivel! Such hypocrisy!) than AB validating PayCheck’s statement. There is certainly some element of truth in those descriptions of my post. However, the only statement that has no element of truth is ABGirlsFan opinion that my knowledge of hockey and specifically of Assabet players is ignorant. So, ABGirlsFan, what are the stats of the Assabet red players, how many are at the publics vs. private? Yet another question that will be dismissed or maybe this sweet lady will get lucky and get a response full of misinformation. Good luck to AB. No hard feelings for any of the players.

    Iced-T, that truly is too bad.
    [/Quote]

    I hope you were beeping loudly while you backed up... now it is only red team players.
    So what exactly was "the truth" of your comment about the JV team?
    oh, and obnoxious as AB may be, you're no slouch yourself
    edit: BTW, could you point out the irony for me? I am down in the dirt, I placed myself on my own JackA$$ poll.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote] My reference to the AD was meant to say that he would not knowingly be part of gaming the system. Of course he has to submit the waiver.

    The situation with your son does sound like inflexibility by the MIAA. Was he also up against the "aging out" rule or only the 4 seasons rule?[/Quote]

    So the AD knew what was being done but he just didn't think it was "gaming the system". OK but If it was in fact "gaming the system" then he did game the system even if he didn't think he was. I think it was, if the facts are as they've been described here by various posts.

    My son was not up against the "aging out" rule -- he was 18 for all of his senior year. He was denied only for the 4 seasons rule which is why I so resent SMH and AB being allowed to have players for more than 4 seasons when it is required to keep their programs able to field a team.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]No backing up my darling. Why would you think I was referring to blue or white teams?

    I have been reading the posts all season so I did see you roll in the dirt. I suppose you equate asking questions as taking a roll too? I assume there are reasonable answers to the questions.[/Quote]
    I'm a movie fan, how about you? Are you familiar with a much used quotation from Pulp Fiction?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    iced-t,
    I'm saying the AD would not have submitted the waiver unless it was presented strictly a numbers issue. We may all be focused on girls hockey, but I can assure you he would not know these 8th graders were high caliber players. You may feel that 14 skaters is enough- it certainly is a defendable position. But it appears that the MIAA at least thinks more is better. A possible rationale is that low numbers- /> poor results-> even lower numbers.

    I'll agree with our new 'honey' that the deal your son got stank.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    The number is exactly 16, counting two goalies, that leaves 14 skaters, not enough. Has anyone ever seen the Boston Latin bench on game night, they have to bring in extra lawn chairs because there is barely enough room on the bench. I'll count them this afternoon, I know there is at least 20.[/Quote]

    I think you meant ".. there are at least 20".

    Yours in striving for spelling and grammar error-free posting,
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    The number is exactly 16, counting two goalies, that leaves 14 skaters, not enough. Has anyone ever seen the Boston Latin bench on game night, they have to bring in extra lawn chairs because there is barely enough room on the bench. I'll count them this afternoon, I know there is at least 20.[/Quote]

    You could play with 14 skaters; certainly with 15. You only needed one waiver if that. Or maybe one of those goalies who used to skate out would step in. Oh never mind that wouldn't have made the team competitive enough. My bad.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    When Woburn lost to SMH 5-0 were the goals good in the sense that SMH scored by overcoming competent defense and goaltending by Woburn or were some due to Woburn's miscues?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghockeyfan. Show ghockeyfan's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]So, If she got hurt or sick and could not play, the game would be canceled and Lynn's season might be over. Or somebody not as good would fill in and the team would not be as successful.

    So when abgirlsfan says that AB has two senior goalies but no others, next year AB might not have a team. Tell me it's not so.

    Our catcher graduated and we say we don't have a catcher to take her place, but we will play with someone catching. Are we missing the boat. All we do is ask for a waiver. How stupid of us.
    [/Quote]

    That is the way it was reported in the paper, that she saved the season for Lynn because they did not have a goalie. Read the article below:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/schools/hockey/articles/2008/12/26/youthful_savior/

    That is a good question, I don't know what would happen if she was unable to tend goal.


    I think you could ask for a waiver if you (your AD) can present a compelling argument as Lynn obviously did.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]
    T,
    you assume abg is lurking?
    As I posted earlier, the waiver is for a school, not individuals.[/Quote]

    That is bizarre. I thought the pretext for the waiver was insufficient number of 9-12 players available. Presumably, insufficiency of numbers is defined as less than some precise number.

    Your description makes it even clearer that this was "gaming the system"; as soon as they realized they could whine for a waiver on numbers grounds,and probably get it then they'd have access to 3 impact players. Argue you need one more when you don't really in any defensible sense and then collect all three prizes. Were any other girls at AB MS interested in joining the team? Was every girl at that Middle School made aware of the opportunity to tryout for the HS varsity girls hockey team? Did any?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghockeyfan. Show ghockeyfan's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]When Woburn lost to SMH 5-0 were the goals good in the sense that SMH scored by overcoming competent defense and goaltending by Woburn or were some due to Woburn's miscues?[/Quote]

    Here's the Lynn Item write-up
    http://itemlive.com/articles/2009/01/29/sports/sports01.txt

    or

    To the best of my recollection:
    One goal off a power play
    Two were banged home off rebounds in front of the net. One was a blast from the left side slot and one was a two one one nice pass and tapped home.

    I think Woburn's defense is more than competent but no defense is perfect.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from greatestfan. Show greatestfan's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    It's Friday, we gotta get it out of our system before the weekend.

    Any big games this weekend?[/Quote]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from greatestfan. Show greatestfan's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    HINGHAM VS. ST. MARY'S[
    Pilgrim Arena, Hingham
    Saturday, 5:40

    D1 Championship preview?!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]This whole thing about girls going to Catholic Schools just for hockey is a little far fetched. Lets face it, if a girl is really serious about playing hockey in college she is going to prep school. We had two girls leave our team for preps this year. The only girl I know who went straight from a Mass Catholic High School to a D1 program is Abby Gauthier. I know Rigano from AP went to d3 for a few years and transferred to d1 this year.

    It is true that hockey is a considerable factor when applying to a Catholic high school, especially AC AP and SMH. It would be a lie to say it isn't. I think a lot of girls, including my daughter, just want to play at a more competitive level than they would be able to at their public high school. First and foremost, school is about SCHOOL.[/Quote]

    Very well said. I would add two things
    1.As we have seen girls who have success in Catholic(and public) move to the preps in increasing numbers, beginning your HS hockey career at a non prep does not mean a girl does not hope to play in college. And D3 is a goal for many, prep included.
    2. I'm not entirely on board with the 'more competitive', given the wide range we have currently. Does a girl at AC or AP play at a more competitve level than those at AHS or Wakefield? A girl such as the SMH goalie does probably play at a higher level than at the school she left( Marblehead)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    . Exactly what happened with AB’s JV team and where are those players?

    [/Quote]

    Well, it's been asked several times, so I'll post what I know.
    The AB JV saga
    2005-2006
    17 players
    8 Freshmen
    7 Sophs
    1 sr
    1 jr
    2 goalies
    Several freshmen on Varsity

    2006-2007
    12 players
    5 sophs( four stopped playing)
    6 juniors ( 1 stopped playing)
    1 fr
    both goalies did not return, but a girl who had skated for varsity as a fr played goal for jv rather than skate for varsity.
    Varsity again had several freshmen who were significant players
    Fall 2007
    It became known that Seniors would not be allowed to play JV. Reasons unknown.
    As the group had bonded over two years, the juniors did not try out.
    Completely insufficient numbers for JV. Team dropped.
    All three goalies from those two seasons solicited to play for varsity
    none interested
    Very few of these girls had varsity aspirations. Many were very successful in other sports and just wanted to play something for their school in the winter.
    FWIW
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote][Quote][Quote]
    We'll all be there tomorrow. Me , Ghockey , Magellan , Hardwater and maybe Paycheck if he's from our side. Tell Larry and Hinghamlover we're coming. Hope the roof doesn't cave in or all that will be left on this blog will be AB and Homesar. God help ya!



    In Florida...not planning to make it back........but i can feel the love all the way down here....[/Quote]
    Nice. Bad enough my boss was in Puerto Rico all week, now you're in FL.where?'m headed down for college visits soon
    I don't disagree with you that if the AB coach gamed the waiver process, it is not right. I just don't know if that is the case.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey129. Show hockey129's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]When Woburn lost to SMH 5-0 were the goals good in the sense that SMH scored by overcoming competent defense and goaltending by Woburn or were some due to Woburn's miscues?[/Quote]


    yes i believe both teams played very well. it was a very physical, hard fought game on both sides. SMH however capitalized on their oppurtunities and put the puck in the net.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote][Quote]


    yes i believe both teams played very well. it was a very physical, hard fought game on both sides. SMH however capitalized on their oppurtunities and put the puck in the net.


    ?? How many penalties did Woburn take ? how about SMH ??[/Quote]
    if emaashockey, now masshshockey, could get us boxes they would have so much traffic they'd be millionaires
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LARRY1990. Show LARRY1990's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    Well it's over now. Whether or not AB pulled a stunt only they know for sure. What about the big matchup today with SMH and Hingham? Who's going to win?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from xj9. Show xj9's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    why did some schools change divisions? Like, Braintree move to D1 and Fontbonne moved to d2?

    http://www.emasshockeyonline.com/rankings.html?did=5
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote] Paycheck... You should really get you facts right before you shoot off you mouth. AB had 12 players 2 goalies come to there pre- season, which is clearly not enough to field a varsity team. The AD had to make a decision to move forward with the wavier based on the numbers at that time, so they could put a team on the ice. The number of players that showed up at tryouts was 16 skaters and 2 goalies, this includes the 8th graders. There were 4 players that showed up at tryouts that didnt no if they wanted to play in the pre-season hence why they did not show up at the meeting in the fall. THe ad has to base the wavier on the players intending to play, not try to guess who will show up at tryouts. You cant control people showing up on the first day. These four who showed up were JV players from the past and since AB no longer was going to have a JV team they did not want to play at that point, thats why they were not at the meeting. You cannot blame the AD or the Coach for moving forward with the wavier, 12 skaters would not have been nearly enough. As it stands now with 16 skaters, that is still low for a varsity progam. ie: injuries, sickness. Also they have 4 players in the school who are not even playing on the team. The AD and the coach did the right thing, and you should no there are 16 other teams in the state who have waviers as well, so dont get made at AB just cause they are ranked. These kids are having the time of there lives this season. They love thier coaches, who by the way are excellent, they care about the kids, and put there heart and sole into this team. There was no gameing the system here they needed the bodies and the AD acted on it. This was approved by everybobdy that had to approve it. including all the AD's in the DCL. Which by the way The DCL has 3 other teams with 8th graders as well. So get your facts right before you speak, you should no that as an adult. Why dont you enjoy your time in florida, instead of worrying about this. Are you really that bored, and have nothing better to do. Good luck to all the teams out there!!!!![/Quote]
    green,
    there is something off about your math. You say that 4 former JV players showed up at tryouts. The last AB JV team skated in the 2006-07 season. From that group and the prior years team, there 'could' have been 8 current seniors and one current junior to 'show up'. But there are only 3 seniors on the team, none who ever played JV. Two juniors, neither who ever played JV. Maybe you got and are passing on misinfo... There may have been kids show up who did not attend the meeting, but they were not former JV players. edit: in addition, since there are 3 eighth graders, are you saying that 3 who came to the pre-season meeting did not come to tryouts? Maybe paycheck is not the only one who need to get their facts straight.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from homesar. Show homesar's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]

    We will have a period by period "Live Update" of tonight's big game between St.Marys and Hingham

    http://www.masshshockey.com/index.html[/Quote]
    That's great. You guys have a tremendous site that keeps getting even better.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kylehockey. Show kylehockey's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]Just back from Pilgrim Arena. Outstanding game played by both teams. SMH 2-0 after 2 periods with Hingham scoring in 3rd to cut lead to 1. Both goalies played very well. Must say it was a premier performance tonight by SMH defenseman Alex Smith who played almost the entire game. Missing 3 key players Alex really stepped it up. Nana would have been proud of her tonight!!![/Quote]

    Who benefitted from the small confines of Pilgrim Arena more? Sounds like a great game and i would put these 2 teams as the front-runners for the state final, assuming they are on opposite sides of the bracket come tourney time. Two quality teams, quality players and quality coaches, the way it should be.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from iced-t. Show iced-t's posts

    2008-2009 Girls Hockey

    [Quote]
    t,
    we all have our opinions, but you seem to be imposing yours as the only legitimate view."any defensible sense"? Why then did the MIAA allow it? I know you've been personally 'burned' by an MIAA decision, but still.
    I have no info as to your last three questions. ALthough, since these three girls are such strong players, doesn't it follow that they would win out versus their 7th and 8th grade peers? Moreover, if someone was better, wouldn't that player have been picked? I guess I'm not really sure of the point[/Quote]

    My rhetoric goes postal sometimes. Sorry.

    I meant by that phrase that a school with 14 skaters and 2 goalies could field a team and does not *need* (as I understand the word "need") to pick up more players to have a season. Am I mistaken? I might be but I've seen lots of games played by teams with fewer players.

    You said that the waiver is not for each 8th grader but rather for the whole middle school in the relevant district. It seems strange that the waiver should be defined in any particular way. The supposedly well defined thing is the set of governing rules. Presumably a waiver would propose a particular exemption from a rule to address a claim that some particular rule's application would unduly harm a player or a program in ways that contradict the overall purpose of having interscholastic ahletics as part of high school education. Do you agree that the form and content of a waiver could not be dictated by the MIAA rules themselves but only by the particulars of a specific claim of harm imposed by a rule? Or is it the case that the rule that players for a high school come from that school contains a clause stipulating that a school may request that its middle school(s) be used as an additional pool of players under certain circumstances?

    What is the rule for which a waiver was sought by AB? Is its waiver request a matter of public record?

    My remark about the bizarreness of the waiver opening up a whole middle school population for eligibility and instead of allowing a particular player's eligibility was prompted by considerations such as:

    1) Where did the number 3 come from? How was it decided that AB needed 3 more skaters. Is it coincidental that there were 3 impact players available from the middle school pool? Is there an understanding that a team needs 17 skaters as AB now has? Seems a little arbitrary to me.

    2) Once the waiver was granted could any girls at the middle school tryout for the varsity team and compete for spots possibly displacing a girl from the high school? Suppose there was an 8th grader who was fourth in ability amongst 8th graders but better than several girls on the team from the high school. Is she entitled to spot at the expense of a 9-12 player?

    3) Even if it was fairly determined that the team needed precisely 3 more players it would have been necessary to open that opportunity to all middle school players not a preselected set. Did any middle school girls beside those who made the varsity tryout?

    But more realistically, someone said that there are a couple of 9-12 players who are sitting on the bench because the 8th graders are stronger players. To me, in my naive view that high school sports are for the benefit of high school students growing up and preparing for their next steps, these players are being ripped off. They may not be headed for college hockey but they put in their time and effort and they deserve their ice time because it is their time in HS, their four years to stand up and be counted and do their best even if it's not great.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share