1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    At 5-10, it looks like the pick will be 8th overall. Obviously, there is going to be no McFadden or Chris Long in our cards. I'm not sure any team will covet this selection and make a trade for it. The best players will be 1) Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC 2) Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State 3) Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State 4) James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State

    It is my guess that the scouting department is working overtime watching Ohio State game film, as those players make the most sense. Anyone else have thoughts on who they would like if a trade down can not be made. I personally like Laurinaitis and Jenkins. Jenkins will be properly valued at the pick and Laurinatis not only fills a need, but is properly valued at that selection.


  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Okay, who do you trade with? Would a mid to late 1st rounder and a 3rd-4th rounder make you pull the trigger?
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dslack. Show dslack's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Wow, a 49er-fan rooting for the Pats! Remember, TB grew up rooting for Montana and your gang.
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England


    That is funny. I rather enjoy your posts-as they are never rude. I am more comfortable with the #8 pick in this draft than I would have been with one fo the higher selections. BTW-I still remember the draft when you took A. Smith #1 and Cowboys and Chargers took Ware and Merriman. Also, you found diamond in the rough Patrick Willis at #11 last year. My point is that quality can be had for half the price of drafting at #1. Cornerback Jenkins or Inside LB James Laurinaitas (both Ohio State) are valued okay at #8 and both fill replacement needs.

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Don't feel too bad. In the late 1980's when the Pats were not too good (hugh fr!gg!n millen?) I watched the 49ers. I loved it. They were so good. Joe Montana was awesome. Jerry Rice. Tom Rathman. Brent Jones. Taylor. Roger Craig. Ronnie Lott. Guy McIntyre. Charles Haley. Tim Mckyer. Bubba Parris. Pierce Holt. Matt Millen, And don't forget Bill Romanowski in his prime! What a roster!

    What a team to root for!

    It got even more interesting as the decade shifted to the 1990's. All of a sudden I had something to root against. Didn't really like the Cowpokes, but still loved the Niners.

    That team still has a spot in my heart. I was dismayed when they finally moved away from the WC offense.

    All the time I still watched every Patriots game. I rooted for wins against the cross-town rivals knowing the Playoffs were out of the question, and the heady days of teh mid-eighties were long gone. I remember my parents asking me if the PAts and Niners met in the Superbowl who I would root for. I laughed and asked if they really thought that was a possibility? LOL.

    But yeah, liking the niners had this empty feeliing though, simply because I was jealous that we didn't have Joe, Ronnie, or Jerry. Now it is like my dream come true. Tom Brady will likely be the only quarterback that is ever better than Joe (I know Bradshaw had four SB wins too, but really didn't play a huge part in his offense, not like Joe who carried his offense to the first two SB wins, and Brady who carried his offense through his first three. Their careers are even taking similar arcs.

    Joe didn't have tons of stats early in his career. His best receiver was Dwight Clark, who was slow and awkward but who ran very precise routes, and had solid hands. The stats came later when Rice and Taylor got there. Before that all Joe did was win with slightly above averge offenses around him, good game plans, and great clutch play.

    There were people who even though that Marino was better than Montana, even though Montana beat him. If Motana got to start his career with Mark Clayton and Mark Duper as wideouts, those records that Farve just beat would have been Montana's records, not Marino's.

    I remember wathcing Joe leave for the Cheifs and being angry that he wasn't coming here. When an aged Jerry Rice left for the Raiders, I wassaddened that he said outright that he would refuse to consider any midwet or east coast teams, because he wanted to stay near his family.

    In short, there is no shame in being a fan of greatness. Just watch the Pats, enjoy history. Know that football moves in cycles and the Niners have to start getting better soon. All they really need is to strike gold (pun intended) with a decent QB and the rest seems to fall in place. I would love to see them land McNabb or something and shift back to the WC offense. But dreaming.

    P.S. -- the Bryant Young retirement will be the quietest ever for such and all-time great. I hope it makes some press on the nationals like ESPN. He deserves it.

    Merry Xmas.
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I don't see the Pats trading this pick unless it involves maybe moving back 2-3 picks while getting extra picks in return, and still being in a position to get a top guy such as James Laurinaitis.

    The Pats have to go "D" in the draft due to the aging talent currently playing on that side of the ball. In particular I'd say they will finally go LB despite the fact that some would-be gurus/Patriot insiders/fans would have you believe that BB never drafts a LB in the first round. Granted, the Pats haven't gone LB in the first round thus far in the Belichick era, but I ask you this... where have the picks been in the draft, and tell me who the best LB that was still available at that pick and whether or not he was graded higher than the player that the Pats ultimately drafted at that pick?

    As I said in the past when you have a pick thats 24-32, you are mostly like looking at the 3rd or 4th best LB available if there is even one available. Often times there are only 3 LBs that truley grade out as first round talents. The past 2 drafts have flew in the face of my last statement (I know), but before that I'd say my statement definately applied.

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zkopyt. Show zkopyt's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I would be very surprised to see the Pats take the 8th pick, more than likely they will trade down since they won't have the 32nd pick this year. I doubt they will take a LB in the first round as BB like to get free agents in thier 4th or 5th year. No matter what happens I have faith that Pioli and BB will do what they think is best for the team in the long run!!!

    BB for President

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriotzen. Show patriotzen's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Look at it this way - in reality , by virtue of their SB win the pats would end up with the last pick this year if not for the league sanctions (yes I said SB win. We know they're going to win, you know their going to win, get over it, move on...). So the big irony is that without the trade for SFs pick, the earliest they would be able to pick now would be 64th (any trade deals not withstanding), So not only will they be 19-0 and SB champs, they'll have an 8th pick in the draft to deal with as they choose.

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slicksteve38. Show slicksteve38's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I dont think Laurinitis is declaring for the draft.

    He is an underclassman, and I heard he is considering returning to Ohio State.

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Fact is that San Francisco was only able to draft Joe Montana, because the Cowboys took Doug Cosbie. Gil Brandt has reported that it was a divided room and that the Cosbie faction narrowly won out. Cosbie turned into a good pick, but Montana the greatest 3rd rounder of all time. Also, the 49ers jumped in front of the Cowboys to draft Rice in 1985. A great job by Walsh. Those were the two smartest things the Niners ever did. The stupidest thing the team ever did was trade Carles Haley to the Cowboys. That dumb trade may have cost San Fran 2 SB titles. It is wierd how those 2 franchises are so connected. 49ers have very little connection us in the modern era, aside from the Jim Plunkett trade eons ago.
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Yeah, the niners also beat the Boys in the '81 NFC Championship earning the chance to play Cincy in the SB. Plus there was the Deion Sanders flip-flop (he was a hired gun at that point anyhow), and the "return" of Charles Haley in his twilight. LOL.

    Don't forget the Ken Norton Jr. swap either. What an outstanding and versatile LB. That was the switch that shifted the balance of powerin the NFC.

    Yeah, they had one of those rare incestuous rivalries. I would love to see the niners get good again so I could relive those days in part. Heck, even though I hated Dallas (Michael Irvin was obnoxious and Emmitt Smith got too much credit for what his massive offensive line did) I look back on them as a great well balanced team built on dominating the line of scrimmage that provided some great games and a great villian to root against.

    The 49ers with Steve Young were just so fun to watch though. The WC offense with a running QB was a great show indeed: but their defense was never up to par. Steve could play as good as he wanted, but you needed to slow down the Cowboys running attack to win. I still think Steve Young couldn'tt carry that team like Joe.

    He always looked great against inferioir defenses, but seemed to make mistakes in the clutch against tough defenses.

    In 1994 when they finally got over the hump, it was their defense and running game that carried them. Great rivalry though.
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from spinalpap. Show spinalpap's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    McFadden was never going to be a Patriot. Laurinaitis should be available at #8 or I could easily see them trading down a few spots and pick up an extra 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. The number 8 pick may be more tradeable than a top 3 or 5 pick. This draft has a lot of depth and the difference between the top pick and the number 8 pick is minimal , yet there is a big difference as far as the guaranteed money/contract. The Pays surely did not want a top 5 pick as it would kil them cap wise and I heard it would have been tough for them to trade out of that spot. The #8 pick gives them both the option of using the pick or trading it. Either way I expect them to get the player they want.

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from spinalpap. Show spinalpap's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    To move from #8 to the middle or late 1st round would command at least a second and a 3rd

    check out the draft value chart http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670 and you can see that the number 8 pick is worth 1,400 points. A drop to say the 18th pick (worth 900) would cost the other team at least 500 value points. This would be a high #2 or a mid 2nd and a low 3rd. If their willing to take a pick in next years draft they could get even more value, maybe even a 1st round pick

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England


    "Incestuous" is the perfect word to describe the Cowboys and the 49ers. BTW-Was Norton on that Niners SB team? Good player, but not as significant as Haley debacle. Also, I liked Steve Young until he started bagging on the Patriots. There is just too much jealousy of the Pats.

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England


    I don't think Walsh ever would have made the Haley trade to your greatest rival. Walsh was a true genius. He is up there with Lombardi and BB in the annals of FB history.

    Rams were not nearly as annoying as Colts fans. Indy is a dicey team sports town and always on this board. What team championships have they ever won aside from last year's fluke (chaulked up to pats injuries-half the defense was injured).

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    A Baltimore win over the the Steelers second stringers would lock up 7th for the Niners. KC and Oakland both have a good shot at winning this week also, but I think San Fran has them beat in the tie break. Either way there will be some solid LB's available around then. Connor, Groves, Adibi, Rivers, Crable, Highsmith, and the list goes on. Depending on how the first few picks go, Ryan, Woodson, and Brohm could all be available, opening a perfect opportunity to trade down and still pick up a Highsmith or Wheeler.

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    If Oakland ,KC aqnd Baltimore win and SF loses, we would jump over them to draft at 5.
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from longhairjoe. Show longhairjoe's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I would imagine CHRIS LONG falling right to the Patriots.
    Hearing Howie Long in an interview answering a question
    about having another chance to play in the NFL for any
    particular coach, Howie mentioned, BELICHICK

    I would imagine with Howie's influence for his son
    to have a good NFL career and to be in an organization
    that's is the highest level of the NFL. Howie's a boston boy,
    it would be like homecoming for his son to play for the Patriots.
    a team in which he wanted to play for.

    For CHRIS LONG to be playing for VIRGINIA (Al Groh),
    There would be some carry going to the Patriots, similar
    philosophies of defense, he's a perfect fit for New England.
    It may have been the plan from the start, go to VIRGINIA , play for Al Groh,
    could have been something Howie influenced from the time Chris left
    High School? It makes a lot of sense for Belichick to take a DE/OLB in this upcoming draft,
    time table of his players dictates it, and CHRIS LONG has the talent and the pedigree.
    I can see Belichick maneuvering for CHRIS LONG, but with the Patriots at 8th to 10th range,
    he may fall right to the Patriot any how.
    This is Howie Long's kid we're talking about.
    There are probably talks behind the scenes leading up to the draft to make a deal?
    In the end, I would imagine Howie wanting his kid to be a Patriot and
    most of all play for Belichick.
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Except that Watson was the 32nd rd pick, and we had Graham so weweren't counting on an instant contribution. I was not shocked atGraham but a second tight was a little wierd. In retrospect it makessense. Drafting 32nd means you take the best talent available.

    ExceptMankins was drafted (you guessed it) 32nd overall. I was not shocked.We needed to get younger on OL. We were cutting older veterans whoneeded raises.

    Both of them made peanuts and could afford to sit around and learn if they had to.

    Peoplekeep saying BB won't draft this, won't draft that. He has drafted LBsbefore. But low risk (see low pay) prospects.Like Lua in the 7th round.Oh yeah, he signed Woods off the street.

    The fact is that mostNFL coaches and managers are reluctant to draft LB(ILBs in particular)because the position has a steep learning curve at the NFL level, theyhave trouble shedding blocks, identifying assingments, and covering NFLreceivers over the middle in the much more precision (see short)passing oriented NFL.

    Now lets look at what BB does do with high picks.

    Richard Seymour 6th overall.
    Ty Warren 13th overall.

    He drafts low risk players like DE and DT who stand the best chance to make an instant impact. Or he trades down.

    Thelast defensive player he drafted high was Merriwether, who saw almostzero action this year. Why? Becasue we had the luxury of having twostarting caliber safties so he could grow into the position. Because hecame in the middle of the first and we could afford to pay him like 1.6million per for five years thus giving him time to learn while having aveteran get the reps.

    Now everybody stop for a second andthink about how OUT of character it would be for Belichik and Pioli totake a player (at any position that requires experience) who has yet toeven step on a football field and pay them close to 6-7Million a yearto most likely NOT play their first season?

    Or better yet,think how silly it would be to see him give the most reps at ILB to arookie who has played college level (seek & destroy only) defense.

    Itgets even sillier if you think that it would be a DE converted to OLB(which we don't need) and spirals even further into sillyness if youthink a college DE could make a one year (even two year) transition toILB of the BB coached 3-4 defensive system that relies on weekly,quarterly and even situational schemes to prevent offenses from movingthe ball.

    Gh, and then address the ILB youth/age/speedproblem. Ghoulston is not coming. Laurinitis is not coming. They willtrade down, get a CB or LB/DE that is available and talented via freeagency where 4-6 million will get you a player that can be counted onto NOT make two years worth of mistakes.

    No matter how youslice it the PAtriots will start 08 about 30-35 million under afterthey release Stallworth and Colvin and restructure Tom Brady.

    Lastyear's number 8 pick got 5 years at $31 million with about 15guaranteed in signing bonuses. Oh yeah, he asn't played awfully, butJamaal Andersomn has not even record one sack at DE.

    Now keepthat number in your head becasue that plus some is what it would costto get Long (if he falls) Ghoulston, or Laurinitis. Average draftinflation tells us that the next guy will want like $6.5 mill per.

    Nowthat sounds like a lot. But consider a player like Dansby who will gofor $6.5to$7million per, has proven he raush the passer, cover TE's,and RB's (very well), tackle with the best of them, and flex seemlesslybetween ILB and OLB. Sounds more like a player that BB will think isworth it. A great player to bring in, even if Seau and/or Bruschidecide they want one more year in the bigs before hanging them up. Thatleaves room to sign up a modest drafted CB, a modest Vet Cornerback,Moss and Wilfork who will likely group in at $18-20 million dollars,and then leave something like $5-15[depending on what kind of FAcornerback he is looking for] to get ahold whatever spare parts youmight need (resign Brushci or Seau and Gay and/or Wilson).

    Sounless BB wants to get another highly paid DL or OLB (Vrable and Thomasmake about 9.5 million combined next year, and Seymour and Warren makeabout $11.4 million together, and look for Wilfork to add about$5million to the DL total) who can play right now, look for him totrade down.

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I would love to see it.

    I am not a fan of Kazcur and Neal (they aren't bad guys or even horrible players, but their side is very overratted. WE do a good job protecting Brady's blind side, but Kaczur consistenly gets beaten by second tire pass rushing talent.

    However, Brady's mobility and pocket sense are assets in this situation. We don't need the best OL, just a really good'en, because he is soo efficient and aware.

    In summation, we have neither the need,nor the money for Long.
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Philips would be a great selection in the middle. Not up top. Not at number 8 dollars.

    I could see us drafting him,or either of the Jenkins' if we trade down to Arizona and/or New Orleans.

    That would put us square in the middle.

    We would stand to save about 5-6 million dollars on the same player and get a second or first rounder in the process.

    Given that it is most likely a second rounder, I would think they could exploit the DB depth in this year's draft in the second round as well.

    The bottom line is that unless you are gettina defensive lineman or RB, there is no way a team like the Patriots will get equal value picking at number eight. They need an impact player for the next three to four years, not a player that could be an impact player two years down the line and will get payed impact dollars as a rook and sophomore.

    They will trade down. Bank on it.

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    Keep in mind that the Browns gave their first draft pick to the Cowboys in the Brady Quinn deal, but may recoup it if they trade Anderson.
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    I predict this draft could see the most movement in the first 10 picks that any draft has seen. I know a couple of the posters in here have the Draft pick point chart shoved up their you know whats but in my opinion and it is borne out by the last couple drafts where less stock has been given to the point chart and more given to a teams need.

    Prove it!! I think you need to give some specific examples because I happen to disagree with you. Most of the trades from the last couple of drafts have been towards the bottom of the first round i.e. teams giving up late first rounders for future ones with hopes of getting a future pick that can potentially be several picks higher (key word here is "potentially").

    I don't doubt that the Pats may entertain trade offers for the 8th pick, but unlike most posters I doubt that the Pats would be willing to go all the way to the bottom of the first round this time around. If they do end up trading this pick, I bet that they will try and move back only a few spots back provided that they would still be in a position to get a player they covet. The Pats' defense is getting older and the fact is that they need playmakers (especially at LB & DS).

    I feel that people get too caught up in how the Pats drafted/traded in year's past. They always seem to evalute these moves in a vacuum. When you typically have a 24-32nd pick in round one, you will have a hard time moving up the board. Likewise, if you had coveted a LB via the draft, history suggests that at those picks you are looking at the 3rd, 4th. or even 5th rated player at that position. I feel that when they had the opportunity to move up, they have done so a la Ty Warren. They once had the #6 pick and used it for Richard Seymoure. Both times they were in position to get true playmakers and not just cost effective starters. I think the best way to look at the previous Patriot moves is that they won't over reach and take guys soley based on need such as with the Watson, Makins, & Maroney picks.

    But what nobody has ever seen thus far is the Pats having a top pick and trading it away, so in my opinion you guys are just guessing. You can't apply the same philosophy when the pros/cons of taking a top pick is vastly different from that of a low #1. I really do believe if the Pats had been in a position to draft Demarcus Ware or Shawn Merriman, they would have taken them in a heart beat. The difference is that in the past, their decision revolved around whether or not to fill a need position by taking the 3rd or 4th best rated guy, or go the best available player route and get perhapse the 1st or 2nd best rated guy at another position. The financial aspect of these scenarios were secondary considerations. They just in my opinion didn't want to throw away money on guys whose talents didn't warrant this.

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England

    The Pats also have shown that they are willing to spend big money provided that it is for playmakers such as in the cases of Brady, Seymoure, Colvin (when he had back to back 10.5 sack seasons), and Thomas. Guys who were good to solid players but wanted to be payed as elite ones were rightfully dismissed as in the cases of Givens, Patten, & Branch.

    All I'm saying is this, don't be suprised if the Pats end up signing both Moss and Samuels to extentions while also using their pick. I think that Moss and proven his worth and although I had previously thought that Asante was a fluke, I now admit that I was wrong and so will BB, and he'll pay the man.

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kittycat6969. Show kittycat6969's posts

    #7 Overall Pick for New England


    The Pats will have two picks in the mid 60's and another pick in the 90's. Might they consider going for corners with 2 of these 3 picks? The trolls did this in 2005 and ended up with Hayden and Jackson (2nd and a late 1st). All I've heard-this is the best DB draft in years (depthwise). I will be watching carefully for when the run on these players starts. I guess so many DB's are drafted since they are so interchangeable on special teams and nickel and dime packages. You can just never have enough.