1. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppysox. Show poppysox's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    HEY SOX DOG DONT FFORGET THAT YOU ALSO THINK WE ARE GETTING SANTANA TO GET A LIFE OR AT LEAST A JOB DUDE
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjgbpd. Show jjgbpd's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    My lineup would be:

    Ellsbury
    Pedroia
    Ortiz
    Ramirez
    Lowell
    Drew
    Youkilis
    Varitek
    Lugo

    I would place Lowell in the five spot because he thrives there and is statistically better. I also like having Youkilis in the bottom three to stabilize. Just thoughts.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Try and Get Saltalamacchia for a package centered around Crisp and any 2-3 other minor leaguers...just not Ellsbury/Buchholtz/Lester (obv.)

    Any trade for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia would start with Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and/or Jon Lester. Crisp and the minor leaguers might land catchers Gerald Laird or Taylor Teagarden.

    Get an 8th inning guy like Calero or Dotel knowing that Masterson/MDC should nail down that role by Sept. of 08 and def for many years beyond.

    Kiki Calero signed a one-year contract with the Oakland Athletics the day after being non-tendered by the A's.

    http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=oak

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bbonds54. Show bbonds54's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Starters

    Ellsbury CF

    Pedroia 2B

    Papi DH

    Manny LF

    Lowell 3B

    Drew RF

    Youk 1B

    Varitek C

    Lugo SS

    Bench

    Cora, Cash, Kielty, Phillips

    Pitching Rotation

    Beckett

    Dice - K

    Schilling

    Buchholz

    Lester

    Pen

    Papelbon, Okajima, Wakefield, Prior, Timlin, Delcarman

    Trade

    Crisp and David Pauley to Pittsburgh for Neil Walker and a low level prospect

    Sign

    Mark Prior, Andy Phillips, Bobby Kielty

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    My likely trade scenario for Coco? He is dealt to San Diego for Heath Bell,

    Why would the San Diego Padres trade a 30-year-old stud reliever -- who earned $385,500 last season and who remains one year away from arbitration and four years away from free agency -- for a 28-year-old good-glove, weak-bat outfielder who is owed $11 million over the next two seasons?

    In 2007, Health Bell posted numbers that were at least as good as those posted by Hideki Okajima, who on Tuesday was named baseball's top setup man in a vote of fans.

    Coco Crisp would not be much of an upgrade over the younger Scott Hairston, who earned $389,000 last season and who remains one year away from arbitration and four years away from free agency.

    Given the salary differences, the cost-conscious Padres probably would prefer to go with Hairston in left field, Jim Edmonds in center and Brian Giles in right.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    I see no reason to see why they wouldn't be willing to part with Bell as his value crests. Likewise, Bell is arbitration eligible, so he is certain to see a significant raise into the vicinity of $2.5 to $3 million next season. Over the next two years the difference between he and Crisp's salary is going to be about $5 mil... not a huge difference for a team that let their payroll flex to $70 mil in 2006.

    You make some good points ... I could see the Padres trading Heath Bell when his value is high, but San Diego should be able to get more in return than Coco Crisp, whose already lagging offensive numbers could take a serious hit in the "phenomenal pitching atompshere" at Petco Park.

    And the sources I checked indicate that Heath Bell is not currently arbitration eligible.

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2000/05/2008-arbitration-eligibles.html

    And while Coco Crisp's fielding ratings were off the charts in 2007, his ratings in previous years suggest that he was at best an average centerfielder.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/crispco01.php

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Things are so boring around here maybe we can discuss everyones favorite Red Sox Roster with or without any changes.

    For me I would love to see this .........

    Starters

    Jacoby CF

    Dustin 2B

    Paaapi DH

    Maaany LF

    Youk 1B

    Drew RF

    Lowell 3B

    Varitek C

    Lugo SS

    Bench

    Moss, (give him a shot)

    Arais, to backup 2b and SS - Offer Texas Masterson and Crisp

    Andy Phillips, sign him to back up 1B and 3B, he hits lefties and righties

    Mirabelli, for now

    Trade

    Offer the Orioles Lester, Lowrie, Lopez and Bowden for Bedard

    Starters

    Beckett, Bedard, Dice, Buchholz, Schilling, Wake

    Pen

    Sign Mahay and/or Prior

    Soxway, I agree with some of your stuff, and I rip others. I think I agreed last time, so I have to rip this one. I'm all about the balance.

    (1) Texas's interest in Crisp probably dwindled once they signed Milton Bradley. I might offer Masterson straight up for Joaquin Arias, but if I did, I absolutely wouldn't stifle his development and increase his service time by putting him on the bench. Alex Cora is going to be our utility infielder, and there are 2 million reasons behind why.

    If the Sox needed a SS, I could see a Masterson/Arias trade happening, and Arias/Pedroia could be a very solid defensive combination up the middle for 5 more years. But in order for that to happen, they'd have to move Lugo to some team that needs a SS (Orioles? Cubs? The foolish White Sox trade?) to make room for him.

    (2) Andy Phillips is NOT better than Eric Hinske under any circumstances, but I guess the grass is always greener. If he was as good, he would not have lost so much time at 1b to Shelley Duncan and company last season. His .269/.318/.428 splits vs RHP are tolerable at best, but his .217/.255/.289 vs LHP are more in line what I would expect from a pitcher. His 24 career innings at 3b really don't qualify him as a viable option. Hinske, who by the way is younger than Phillips, is was and always will be a better flat out player in every respect, and unlike Phillips, has actually had full time starting jobs in MLB. The only advantage you get from Phillips is that he should be cheaper. That is the only reason to sign him. And if money is he concern, might as well just use one of the in-house options in Moss or Carter.

    (3) For backup Cf, I assume we would have to use Moss under your plan. He has very limited playing time there in the minors. Moss could be on the roster, but there will be another OF with more CF experience. Most likely from the set of Kielty, Emil Brown or Jeff DaVanon.

    Also, Moss bast left-handed, which means if they need to platoon with Drew in Rf, they can't.

    (4) The trade for Bedard is really a transparent attempt to acquire a pitcher without giving up Ellsbury. Very unlikely Baltimore makes the move, considering they have Bedard for two more seasons relatively cheaply and are only trying to deal him now to maximize the return package. Unlike the Twins with Santana, they aren't facing losing him to free agency this year. The Orioles have reportedly turned down a package of Homer Bailey, Joey Votto and Josh Hamilton already, which should give you some idea how much they are asking for in return. The real problem with having a good prospect like Ellsbury is he becomes the focal point of every other team in a trade. This is exactly the problem the Reds are having; everyone wants Jay Bruce, and just ignores when they throw other top shelf prospects like Bailey and Votto on the table without him.

    Not to mention, Bedard really hasn't had a career anywhere close to Santana's, and is the same age. His injury history is more significant. and while his oblique muscle injury isn't an arm problem, the bottom line is he did not pitch once it happened. Santana is a big risk, but Bedard is too, and will probably cost just as much in terms of prospects.

    (5) Prior is already attracting too much attention to be considered a low risk/high reward gamble. There are some 10-12 teams interested, depending on who you read. With that much attention, he stops being cheap.

    (6) Mahay apparently wants a Romero-esque deal, which is way more than a guy as inconsistent as he is should ever get.

    (7) Buchholz will not and should not get a full season in MLB this year. His arm just isn't ready strengh-wise, and the fact that they wouldn't put him on the post-season roster is indicative that the Sox feel the same way. No need to Josh Johnson the guy this early in his career. The other 4 pitchers you mention will be in the rotation, and points are awarded not not putting Wakefield in the bullpen. He isn't going there. Most likely, the Sox rotation will be Beckett / Matsazaka / Schilling / Lester / Wakefield, with Buchholz working pitch counts and waiting for an injury to step in. There will be an injury at some point; every team will have at least one.

    I will agree you probably nailed the starting lineup with those nine players, though not the batting order. (Youkilis won't be batting 5th. I guarantee it. Either Lowell or Drew will, and my gut says Lowell.) I doubt we make any significant moves the rest of the way. Moss and Mirabelli are both likely bench options, though you omitted the one guarantee in Alex Cora, who isn't going anywhere.

    Supposedly the Sox are looking at a slew of 1b/3b types, including Ryan Klesko, Russell Branyan, Corey Koskie, Olmedo Saenz and Jeff Cirillo. Somehow, I just can't see how any of them are an upgrade over Hinske. And the only one I like even a little - Greg Norton - isn't even on the radar, apparently. This is why I think Moss might just be the guy next season, especially if he proves he can handle 1b. But if the plan is to bring in one of the 5 guys I listed, I just don't see why they don't bring back Hinske, unless he is asking for too much money for some reason.

    I'd rather the Sox acquired some sort of super-sub player, like Ryan Freel. But other teams need Freel more than the Sox do - like Chicago (AL), Minnesota, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and I have to think they'd make a better offer beased on need.

    I think the Sox biggest move remaining might be to deal Crisp, either to Atlanta for a catcher not named McCann or to someone for a bullpen arm. If we dealt him to the Twins for Matt Guerrier, I'd be more than satisifed. I also wouldn't mind deaing him to San Diego for one of their bullpen guys (Bell? Kevin Cameron? Germano?) and/or a catching prospect (Nick Hundley) whose losing his luster. Tavarez may also be dealt, but I'm not sure who is inquiring and how much interest they have. Suffice to say, it won't be an earth-shattering deal.

    My initial asumption is the staff is :Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Lester, Wakefield, Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Timlin, Snyder, and probably Tavarez and/or Lopez. Hopefully Guerrier, and maybe Bell / Cameron / Germano.

    The lineup will have Varitek, Youkilis, Pedroia, Lugo, Lowell, Ramirez, Ellsbury, Drew and Ortiz. (This is not the batting order, for those fo you who are going to correct it for me.) The likely bench is Cora, Moss, Kielty and Mirabelli. Though I suppose any one or all of the last 3 could change, but not with any significant names getting in there. I do prefer Emil Brown over Kielty, but Brown will probably ask for more money. And in my opinion, it is time to cut ties with Mirabelli and get another catcher. I don't expect Saltalamacchia back there, and I wouldn't be upset with Kottaras or Brown, or a trade acquisition (Brayan Pena? Nick Hundley?) would be a refreshing change.

    Team looks pretty familiar, wouldn't you say? Not a very exciting off-season...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    "Why would the San Diego Padres trade a 30-year-old stud reliever -- who earned $385,500 last season and who remains one year away from arbitration and four years away from free agency -- for a 28-year-old good-glove, weak-bat outfielder who is owed $11 million over the next two seasons?

    In 2007, Health Bell posted numbers that were at least as good as those posted by Hideki Okajima, who on Tuesday was named baseball's top setup man in a vote of fans."

    Heath Bell is a stud reliever now?

    He had one good season pitching in a role that made stars out of Rudy Seanez, Scott Linebrink and Cla Meredith.

    Okajima has only had one good season, but he hasn't had any bad ones. Let's not overvalue Bell just yet.

    "Coco Crisp would not be much of an upgrade over the younger Scott Hairston, who earned $389,000 last season and who remains one year away from arbitration and four years away from free agency."

    C'mon Hill. You're taking this love of the underdog to new levels. Both Hairston and Bell are guys who have had multiple chances, and only last year got something right. Both are just as likely, if not more, to return to being the marginal players they were before. Especially Bell, who is already 30, and not likely to improve much.

    "Given the salary differences, the cost-conscious Padres probably would prefer to go with Hairston in left field, Jim Edmonds in center and Brian Giles in right."

    Then they will need at least 2 more outfielders. Jim Edmonds hasn't played a full season since 2005, and isn't getting more likely to. And Brian Giles isn't healthy yet. He does have a couple of months, but he hasn't even started running. More likely, they platoon Edmonds and Hairston in one corner and use Giles in the other if he is healthy.

    I know at one point, they planned to move defensive butcher Kevin Kouzmanoff to LF, but I guess the Edmonds trade changed that. I wonder if this means they have soured on Kouzmanoff, which would be odd since he was one of their best hitters last year.

    I would think the Edmonds trade showed they obviously have some willingness to spend.

    I really don't get why you think Coco Crisp for $5.5mill per is such a bad deal. Is Crisp such a bad deal when an injury-plagued lunatic like Milton Bradley is commanding $5mill per season?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Heath Bell is a stud reliever now? He had one good season pitching in a role that made stars out of Rudy Seanez, Scott Linebrink and Cla Meredith.

    Just as Coco Crisp turned in one stellar season in the field and now he's considered a Gold Glove-caliber centerfielder.

    Both Hairston and Bell are guys who have had multiple chances, and only last year got something right. Both are just as likely, if not more, to return to being the marginal players they were before.

    Just as Coco Crisp has had multiple chances as his offensive numbers trended downward.

    I know at one point, they planned to move defensive butcher Kevin Kouzmanoff to LF, but I guess the Edmonds trade changed that. I wonder if this means they have soured on Kouzmanoff, which would be odd since he was one of their best hitters last year.

    I could see the San Diego Padres trading from their thirdbase surplus -- Kevin Kouzmanoff or prospect Chase Headley -- for a high-OBP, leadoff-hitting outfielder such as the reasonably priced Reggie Willits of the crowded Los Angeles Angels outfield.

    I would think the Edmonds trade showed they obviously have some willingness to spend.

    The San Diego Padres may be tapped out after overpaying for Jim Edmonds at this point in Edmonds' career.

    Is Crisp such a bad deal when an injury-plagued lunatic like Milton Bradley is commanding $5mill per season?

    A healthy Milton Bradley posts on-base percentages and OPS that far exceed those turned in by Coco Crisp, who has durability issues of his own.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6406/career;_ylt=Al16wxPvcnherYUskSz2816FCLcF

    Milton Bradley cost Texas only a one-year commitment (compared to the two years and $11 million remaining on Crisp's contract) and did not cost the Rangers Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Gerald Laird or Taylor Teagarden.

    Despite our differences, I hold your opinions in high regard.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Crisp & Lopez to the Rangers for Teagarden & Duran - *** Yeah I know two major leaguers for two minor leaguers but there worth it.

    Why would a rebuilding team such as the Texas Rangers trade away regarded prospects for mediocre but more expensive major leaguers?

    Coco Crisp is owed $11 million over the next two years and 30-year-old Javy Lopez is arbitration eligible.

    The Texas Rangers could have an affordable outfield with Frank Catalanotto in left, Marlon Byrd in center and Milton Bradley in right.

    The 30-year-old Byrd, who is arbitration eligible, outperformed Crisp offensively last season, although Byrd did not have Crisp's breakout year in center field. However, their pre-2007 defensive numbers were comparable.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/byrdma01.php

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/crispco01.php

    Former Red Sox David Murphy and switch-hitter Jason Botts provide inexpensive depth in the Texas outfield.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Choose your 08 lineup Roster?

    Heath Bell is a stud reliever now? He had one good season pitching in a role that made stars out of Rudy Seanez, Scott Linebrink and Cla Meredith.

    Just as Coco Crisp turned in one stellar season in the field and now he's considered a Gold Glove-caliber centerfielder.

    I was as surprised with Crisp's defensive turn around as anyone. After 2006, I considerd him a liability in CF (and was assuming his poor offensive showing was merely a bad season), and repeatedly made posts advocating Pena as the CF for 2007, which should give you some idea of how bad I felt he was. Coco showed me up, and made leaps and bounds. Literally. Good for him. It's rare to see a player who cares that much about his defensive play to make such a huge improvement. It was one thing when Wade Boggs did it. Boggs had nothing else that he needed to work on.

    Offense does seem to be a much more inconsistent attribute than defense. Stats like BABIP can show a player can have a good season with some serious luck. Defense doesn't seem to be that way, and maybe Coco finally got the confidence in his abilities and was able to finally assert himself in CF. I can compare him in this regard to Kenny Lofton, when he was in Cleveland the 1st time. I'm not going to say Crisp is the defender Lofton was, but early in his career, Kenny seemingly gave way to far inferior outfielders like Albert Belle and Manny Ramirez, and it was not uncommon to see catchable balls land between Loftonm and one of these corner slugs. But Kenny learned to take charge and be more aggressive out there, and showed marked improvement in the outfield, which he was able to maintain for a long time. Crisp showed this exact same tentativeness in CF at times in 2006. One good example was Beltre's inside-the-park HR in Seattle during the August collapse, where he basically gave way to a disinterested Manny Ramirez, and the ball bounded too far awy before Crisp realized Manny wasn't going to chase it down, either. At some point after that, Coco seemed to realize who is in charge in the outfield.

    Both Hairston and Bell are guys who have had multiple chances, and only last year got something right. Both are just as likely, if not more, to return to being the marginal players they were before.

    Just as Coco Crisp has had multiple chances as his offensive numbers trended downward.

    I guess the big difference between them is that Crisp has had solid seasons as a full time starter. Hairston had a well-timed hot streak in limited duty, reminiscient of Shane Spencer in 1997. I think Hairston is better than Spencer, and comes from a better baseball pedigree, but I don't think he is going to be a productive full time player. Not for very long, anyway. I would be surpised if he wasn't platooned with Edmonds this season for as long as Edmonds is healthy.

    And as I said, the bullpen in San Diego seems to be a place where a lot of people have excelled coming from nowhere. Seanez was a stud there after being a textbook journeyman, kind of like 40yo Doug Brocail last season. Linebrink could barely crack the Houston bullpen. Bell was a washout with the Mets. Meredith never got a fair chance in Boston, so he is a different case.

    I know at one point, they planned to move defensive butcher Kevin Kouzmanoff to LF, but I guess the Edmonds trade changed that. I wonder if this means they have soured on Kouzmanoff, which would be odd since he was one of their best hitters last year.

    I could see the San Diego Padres trading from their thirdbase surplus -- Kevin Kouzmanoff or prospect Chase Headley -- for a high-OBP, leadoff-hitting outfielder such as the reasonably priced Reggie Willits of the crowded Los Angeles Angels outfield.

    It's quite obvious you and I differ on Willits, and I can't recall myself ever being less impressed with a .293 hitter. (And your response to my last post on him was deleted or moved before I could read it.) I could be wrong about the guy, but I just don't see it yet. But disagreeing about him is nothing, since Willits himself will settle the argument on the field one way or the other.

    But I would think even if you are right about Willits, a very highly regarded prospect like Headley would be able to land a better regarded CF. Although most of the teams with a CF surplus (Arizona, Seattle, Cincinnati) all do seem set at 3b, and Anaheim's only other expendable CF option (Matthews) is expensive and massively overrated, it does look like some sort of deal should happen. I suppose the Reds could have an easier time moving Encarnacion (Philadelphia? Cleveland?) than the Mariners will have with Beltre.

    I would think the best match might be Cleveland, who have 3 CF's in Sizemore, Gutierrez and Trevor Crowe. I could see Headley going for one of the latter two. Before San Diego signed Iguchi, I was wondering if the two teams were going to undo the Kouzmanoff/Barfield trade from last year. It would have made sense for both teams, and I can't think of the last time two teams undid a trade like that within one season.

    I would think the Edmonds trade showed they obviously have some willingness to spend.

    The San Diego Padres may be tapped out after overpaying for Jim Edmonds at this point in Edmonds' career.

    Possible, in which case it was odd to spend all the cash on a 37yo part time OF. They did get him cheaply in terms of minor leaguers, and I'm sure that weighed into their decision. But I would think they could have found a better option given the talent they have available to deal, especially since Edmonds days in CF could very well be over. I can see why they chose Edmonds over Geoff Jenkins, but if they could have made a deal for, say, Luke Scott (before he was dealt) or Matt Murton or Juan Rivera or Jacques Jones, I would have thought it made more sense. Maybe not Murton, since he is very slow and doesn't cover much ground. But if that is what they want, Scott Podsednik can be had yesterday.

    Then again, Kevin Towers is running a playoff-caliber team on a limited budget and I am not, so what do I know. :)

    Is Crisp such a bad deal when an injury-plagued lunatic like Milton Bradley is commanding $5mill per season?

    A healthy Milton Bradley posts on-base percentages and OPS that far exceed those turned in by Coco Crisp, who has durability issues of his own.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6406/career;_ylt=Al16wxPvcnherYUskSz2816FCLcF

    Milton Bradley cost Texas only a one-year commitment (compared to the two years and $11 million remaining on Crisp's contract) and did not cost the Rangers Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Gerald Laird or Taylor Teagarden.

    Bradley is defintely a very talented player. He was outstanding for the A's in the 2006 post-season, and as a baseball player, he doesn't have to prove his talent to me.

    He is also coming off a bad injury, and while he says he'll be ready, I'm not holding my breath. Heard that line before from plenty of guys who've been on the DL for prolonged periods at the start of the season.

    Not to mention, Bradley has shown he can fly off the handle and earn himself a suspension. I remember watching that bottle-throwing game on ESPN a couple years ago. We all saw his tirade this year that ended his season. And I've heard stories about the way he all but seperated himself from the entire Cleveland team, but with all stories like this, I hate to hold them against a guy because I cannot verify anything. The bottle incident and the umpire tirade did tend to lend them some credibility, though.

    Despite what half of this board thinks, Crisp isn't going to get us Saltalamacchia, unless we throw in one of the big three. Teagarden is probably going to be a 1b/DH, and might even be able to platoon with Broussard this season if he can get and stay healthy. I would bet he never spends any time behind the plate. I don't see them dealing him, not only because they rally need a RHH thumper, but also because he is a Dallas native and a Longhorn alum. Being a Longhorn is the second best thing in Dallas, behind only being a Cowboy.

    I like Laird, and would have considered dealing Crisp for him. I'm sure Daniels would have, too, but our GM held off, no doubt due to the whoIe Santana thing. I have mentioned in several other posts that signing Bradley probably killed Texas' interest in Crisp. Unlike in, say Minnesota or Atlanta, where they have only acquired minor league talent as a CF safety net. (I like Pridie a lot more than Anderson.)

    Despite our differences, I hold your opinions in high regard.

    Our differences are harmless. You do bring some very good points to all your arguments, as well. It's good to get multiple opinions and viewpoints. That's what this board is all about :)


     

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