1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan84. Show redsoxfan84's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]...sorry but it's obvious you don't know the game...[/Quote]

    Okay Ted Williams...I mean WillCO, enlighten me.

    Many people on this board disagree about whether it was dirty or not.  I happen to think it was a tough, physical, aggressive play.

    Having an opinion, that is within the rules, and shared by many others means, I obviously don't know the game...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nickarcese. Show nickarcese's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    All banter aside on this issue, we don't want Justin or Julio taken out.  It will happen tonight.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan84. Show redsoxfan84's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]"Don't get your heads too blown out of porportion when you are all still wet behind the ears when it comes to baseball and winning."....sorry, we shouldn't have to wait 86 years like you did. Suddenly this team buys two titles and  you become know it alls. Shocking. As for complaining about ESPN...the network is a blatant cheerleader for the Sox and you're still complaining. As for Coco Crap...if that play was put on Pedroia by, oh I dunno...Derek Jeter...you'd all be crying like the bed wetting babies that youa re. [/Quote]

    Um...if you can read, you would see that I said, If ARod did it I would be okay with it...it baseball.  Like a few years ago when Delgado plowed through Mienkiewitz, he was in the baseline and got hammered.  Dougie got mad, and said something, I like that, but Delgado did what you want him to do... 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from WillCo. Show WillCo's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]Okay Ted Williams...I mean WillCO, enlighten me.

    Many people on this board disagree about whether it was dirty or not.  I happen to think it was a tough, physical, aggressive play.

    Having an opinion, that is within the rules, and shared by many others means, I obviously don't know the game...[/Quote]

    ...O.K. Maury Wills, I'll ask this question then,...when was the last time you saw a "take out slide" on a straight steal of a base?...should I wait for the answer 'till hell freezes over?

    ...if you've played the game and/or followed it at all then there's no doubt in differentiating between the time and place for the 2 different types of slides and when they're supposed to be applied...

    ...Coco's was obviously an attitude slide with a message attached, nothing else...take off the blinders, it's all right to critisize the hometown guys once in a while!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PumpsieGr. Show PumpsieGr's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    All I can say is that this game has changed since Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes.
    Second baseman aren't what they used to be, either. The old Reds player Vada Pinson told a story about his rookie and the first time he played against the Pirates. His teammates told him that the Bucs' second sacker was a real jerk and that there was $100 bounty for anyone who took him out with a slide. That was big money in the 50's, so Pinson awaited his chance eagerly. When it came, he slid hard -- right into to Bill Mazeroski whose calves were the size of 'Tek's thighs. It was like sliding into a mighty oak, and it jarred Pinson head-to-toe. He got up bewildered and looked over to the Reds' dugout. where he saw the entire team was doubled over in laughter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from HHS1964. Show HHS1964's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    Maddon is just a big sissy and we will now watch the Devil Rays begin to sink in the standings. Their run is over.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WillCo. Show WillCo's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]Maddon is just a big sissy and we will now watch the Devil Rays begin to sink in the standings. Their run is over.[/Quote]

    ...put yourself in Maddon's shoes...he may not have been aware of Bartlett putting his knee down intentionally or not on Coco's 1st steal attempt, then he see's Coco go after his 2nd baseman on a barrell roll slide in an obvious move to send a message on his 2nd steal attempt ,not to steal the base!...I see Maddon doing what any manager would have done in similar circumstances which is to protect his player...

    ...that being said, I'm not totally down on Coco but think that maybe his message was misdirected out of sheer pain and anger more than anything...I'm sure Coco was thinking that he might miss more time with yet another injury and that couldn't have made him too happy...Iwamura sure looked surprised as if to say "what the hell was that all about?"...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamroz. Show jamroz's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    Take another look at it. Iwamura had one foot on the bag. He was going to get hit no matter what. The slide was hard but it was retaliation for the earlier block. Sutcliffe made it sound like Crisp slid at him with a bat in his hand.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]I didn't see the original play, but if Bartlett blocked the base with his knee, that's completely inappropriate, and Crisp was well within his rights to retaliate.  Maddon is completely out of line since it was his player that injured Crisp.  And Sutcliffe is completely out of line for not catching it in the first place.  What's the point of hiring players to commentary if they are not picking up on that?[/Quote]

    Bartlett did indeed drop his knee in front of the base as Coco slid in head first. Crisp was very fortunate not to have a broken or severly sprained finger.

    Crisp's slide into Iwamura was not overly dirty , he was just sending a message to the Rays infielders.

    Fans in Boston comlain daily about Lugo...the Rays have got to be sorry they let him get away, this guy Bartlett is horrible. He can't hit, has no power, and his fielding is marginal at best. And then he pulls a dumb move like the knee drop on Coco.

    The Rays have some good young starting pitchers, but beyond that the only guys that really impress me are Iwamura, Crawford and Upton.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan84. Show redsoxfan84's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]...O.K. Maury Wills, I'll ask this question then,...when was the last time you saw a "take out slide" on a straight steal of a base?...should I wait for the answer 'till hell freezes over?

    ...if you've played the game and/or followed it at all then there's no doubt in differentiating between the time and place for the 2 different types of slides and when they're supposed to be applied...

    ...Coco's was obviously an attitude slide with a message attached, nothing else...take off the blinders, it's all right to critisize the hometown guys once in a while![/Quote]

    Don't take things personally, I disgaree with you, no big deal.  Life is not black and white and neither is baseball.  Read this board there's a lot of people who agree with you and a lot who disagree with you...seems like you may be having a rough day, sorry if you are.

    I NEVER said Coco's slide was not trying to send a message, it may and probably was, but that still does NOT make it a dirty play, which was my point.

    No you don't see guys slide hard very often on a stolen base, but it happens.  Look at the play last night, Iwamura was 3 feet past the base (in the baseline), and tagged Crisp on the head.  The whole play was unusual.

    Still, I agree Coco may have been trying to prove a point, but proving a point does not mean dirty...IMO

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikebruno18. Show mikebruno18's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    My biggest problem with the whole thing is a manager walking out to make a pitching change and starting an exchange with an opposing player in the dugout.  That's horsesh!t.

    So Coco may get plunked tonight, I don't think that's going to itimidate a team with Beckett, Lester, Timlin and Colon able to handle this down the road sometime.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from StandardDeviation. Show StandardDeviation's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    Bah!  I hope the Sox slide like this on all their steals from now on.  Let's put some fear into the other team.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]I agree that Coco isn't dirty and I do believe Madden might be over reacting perhaps trying to light a fire under his team. But having said that, Coco's slide was very late and very agressive much more like trying to break up a double play and not just a routine slide.[/Quote]

    Right you are and if you watched the previous base stealing attempt by Coco you'd know why he went in hard.  Head first slide and the 2nd baseman threw his knee down which could have broken Coco's hand or jammed his shoulder.  Madden is as old as the wheel so he was clueless as to what got Coco so angry. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from brianbosox. Show brianbosox's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    I Agree that the slide was hard because of the previous steal attempt and it was the correct thing to do.  After the game, CC said next game throw at him and not at his teammates. 
    Did Madden say anything after the game or just the yelling match during the pitching change?  Maybe, he did not see or know what Bartlett did. Just a thought. 
    Sutcliffe and ESPN is a joke.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]CC was making a statement, not he is not a dirty player at all but when he stole earlier  the knee was dropped in front of the bag as if a catcher blocking home plate, which typically is not done. I think what CC did was great and yeah he did throw up his arm a little but the hard take out slide was right on the money. You see when a player gets hit by a pitch the other pitch will throw high and tight if not plunk someone. You need to police things out there and I for one think it was great and I'd like to see more players lower the shoulder when coming in to home plate if the catcher has the ball, in the old days it was like a freight train coming through and it was up  to the catcher to hold on to the ball......[/Quote]

    I'm a RS fan, but I don't see how one guy blocking the base on a steal warrants you trying to hurt the next guy with a slide like that.  I don't see how what the first guy did was dangerous at all.  I don't CC is generally a dirty player, but I think that was a dirty slide and I can't understand why he was so upset about finding a knee in front of the bag.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]I Agree that the slide was hard because of the previous steal attempt and it was the correct thing to do.  After the game, CC said next game throw at him and not at his teammates. 
    Did Madden say anything after the game or just the yelling match during the pitching change?  Maybe, he did not see or know what Bartlett did. Just a thought. 
    Sutcliffe and ESPN is a joke.[/Quote]
    IF CC says that, then why did he slide hard into Bartlett's teammate, for something Bartlett did?  That's hypocritical.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brianbosox. Show brianbosox's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    A position player does not have a chance every game or every pitch to do retaliate.  He did it on the next steal attempt which was the very next chance he had to do it.  He did not wait until the next game or next series to do it but the next time he was on base. 
    Is he supposed to wait until Bartlett is covering 2nd on his next steal attempt against the Rays in Auguast?  He did the right thing.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WillCo. Show WillCo's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]



    Don't take things personally, I disgaree with you, no big deal.  Life is not black and white and neither is baseball.  Read this board there's a lot of people who agree with you and a lot who disagree with you...seems like you may be having a rough day, sorry if you are.

    I NEVER said Coco's slide was not trying to send a message, it may and probably was, but that still does NOT make it a dirty play, which was my point.

    No you don't see guys slide hard very often on a stolen base, but it happens.  Look at the play last night, Iwamura was 3 feet past the base (in the baseline), and tagged Crisp on the head.  The whole play was unusual.

    Still, I agree Coco may have been trying to prove a point, but proving a point does not mean dirty...IMO

     

    [/Quote]

    ..first off I wasn't the one who typed the comment "So what makes it appropriate to slide hard on DP, but not on a stolen base??  It's okay to go in hard like that to make a guy drop the ball while turning a DP, but it's not okay to try and steal a base?  Either it's right or it's wrong.
    ...that's just plain a fool's logic that simply doesn't apply even on the most elementary level of understanding how baseball is played...you KNOW that isn't true so please don't defend it...

    ...secondly it wasn't me who started the pissing contest with the "Ted Williams" reference...but I was more than obliged to follow it up...
     
    ...what made the "whole play unusual" was Coco's slide towards the SS side of the bag which had him do a half barrel roll directly into Iwamura forearm up...again, not knocking Coco for his hard play but don't tell me it's appropriate in a base stealing sense which it clearly wasn't!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]

    A position player does not have a chance every game or every pitch to do retaliate.  He did it on the next steal attempt which was the very next chance he had to do it.  He did not wait until the next game or next series to do it but the next time he was on base. 
    Is he supposed to wait until Bartlett is covering 2nd on his next steal attempt against the Rays in Auguast?  He did the right thing.

    [/Quote]
    If he follows his own advice, then one way or another, he retaliates against the very guy who did it - not against someone else.  I agree he might not have seen who it was, running with his head down.  But doesn't it seem wrong to get back at someone who didn't do it in the first place?  I mean, Coco thinks so - that's why he's saying the Rays should not retailiate against anyone but him.  In the old days, I think someone in Coco's position just would have asked his pitcher to drill him.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skier7303. Show skier7303's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    bottom line, both plays were dirty.

    bartlett broke an unwritten rule by dropping his knee down to block second base.  he knew it, and when maddon watches the replay, he'll know it too.

    Coco's slide into second into iwamura was clearly dirty, but it was retaliatory.  one for one, right?


    that's how the game is supposed to be played.  it used to happen A LOT more years ago.  i don't expect anything further to come out of this, because when all the sox players and coaches and Rays players and coaches watch the replays, they'll see both players got their shots in and it's done.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brianbosox. Show brianbosox's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    bottom line, both plays were dirty and it should be over and done with unless one of the team has a screw loose. 
    If this escalates, there is something wrong with whoever starts it tonite.  Hopefully, it will not be like Petey and the beanballs a few years ago from both teams.  Let the Yankees have the beanball wars with the Rays as they have the last few years.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan84. Show redsoxfan84's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]..first off I wasn't the one who typed the comment "So what makes it appropriate to slide hard on DP, but not on a stolen base??  It's okay to go in hard like that to make a guy drop the ball while turning a DP, but it's not okay to try and steal a base?  Either it's right or it's wrong.
    ...that's just plain a fool's logic that simply doesn't apply even on the most elementary level of understanding how baseball is played...you KNOW that isn't true so please don't defend it...

    ...secondly it wasn't me who started the pissing contest with the "Ted Williams" reference...but I was more than obliged to follow it up...
     
    ...what made the "whole play unusual" was Coco's slide towards the SS side of the bag which had him do a half barrel roll directly into Iwamura forearm up...again, not knocking Coco for his hard play but don't tell me it's appropriate in a base stealing sense which it clearly wasn't![/Quote]

    You did start it with the "you obviously know nothing about the game" comment.  Although you may be too old and crazy to remember that.

    As for "fool's logic", that would be saying someone doesn't know the game because they disgaree with you...

    I'm done with this chat...have a great night, I am sure you are heading to bed now.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Victory12321. Show Victory12321's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    Let me guess




    Not so  long ago the Rays were "playing hard and thats how you should play the game"


    Now all of a sudden, they are bit cocky  and  playing to hurt people?

    and Maddon is out of line?

    Get real folks and stop the flip-floping


    Now lets hear how Shields is a dirty player.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DADDYOBOB. Show DADDYOBOB's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    [Quote]Let me guess




    Not so  long ago the Rays were "playing hard and thats how you should play the game"


    Now all of a sudden, they are bit cocky  and  playing to hurt people?

    and Maddon is out of line?

    Get real folks and stop the flip-floping


    Now lets hear how Shields is a dirty player.[/Quote]

    It's all just baseball, that's how the game is played.  If a middle infielder blocks the bag, which they are allowed to do, they should EXPECT that their chances of getting injured the next time are substantially increased.  If the opposing team is willing to block the bag, then they should be willing to carry their bloodied middle infielders off the field.  The only way a base stealer is going to get that bag back is to go in spikes first.  Coco made it clear that he was taking the base back for his team.  I seroiusly doubt that the Yankees want Jeter blocking the bag and winding up on the DL.

    As for Shields, he pretty much screwed his team for the rest of their road trip.  He will probably miss a start and the Rays will now have a tired pen for the rest of the games in this road trip.  Plunking Coco in the 6th or 7th would have been a lot smarter.  It just shows how much inexperience the Rays have at being in the position they are in.  They acted like the last place team they have always been, instead of the team that was challenging for the lead in the division.  It wouldn't surprise me if the Rays wind up pointing to this road trip as the beginning of their unravelling.  Shields isn't dirty, he just wasn't smart.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from badgealbert. Show badgealbert's posts

    Coco slide was not dirty!! What is wrong with Madden?

    THESE PANTYWAISTS SHOULD HAVE TO PLAY WHEN YOU HAD THE LIKE OF TY COBB SLIDING INTO WITH SPKIES HIGH
          IF YOU THINK THE ESPN ANNOUNCERS STINK YOU SHOULD HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE TWO CLOWNS WHO BRODCAST THE TAMPA BAY TEAM.

     

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