1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxfan1968. Show bosoxfan1968's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    think its pretty early to be comparing JE to anyone but your post is just ridiculous - especially the part of the homeruns.� Sizemore has average 26 homers/per year over 2 (full) years of at bats.� To compare the number they both have at this point is simply stupidNow its really stupid because he now has 3 HRs.� Put that in your stupid pipe and smoke it!!
    I wasn't the one that started this message and last year is history. Go by this years numbers

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Wonderful post, your memories we all have in common, especially when you start talking about the 67 sox and everything that happened from that point on. I cried with Yaz in 72, just like all of you and we kept thinking about next year. 2004 was magic, took us to the brink of despair and than one stolen base led to an incredible winning streak, against all odds. Anyway Red Sox nation has existed for a long time, I have seen the Sox in Seattle, Oakland, LA and Texas and felt right at home most of the time. I thought Johny Pesky was just being nice comparing JE to the Great Ted, but maybe he knows more than the rest of us. Anyway I hope Jacoby keeps it up, he sure is fun to watch and it seems to energise the entire team.� Big Papi beating out grounders, Logo hustling, even Manny trying harder especially on defense. Great win tonight, no Beckett no problem.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxfan1968. Show bosoxfan1968's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    yeah he has 3 home runs, sizemore has one..........see me in September - then we'll talk about how close they are in home runs.� Just because he hit 2 tonight doesn't make it any less stupid to be discussing it.� �I was just having a little fun with the stats but this is the second time you called me stupid, I like people that try to degrade other�people to convince themselves how smart they are. We can talk about HRs all day but when it comes down to the game in hitting it all about RUNS and RBI's.� I'll save you the trip to the stats #1 Ellsbury 19 runs� with 52 AB so he scores�36.5% of his ABs.� #63 Sizemore 9�runs�with 78 AB so he scores 11.5%. and they both have 9 RBIs but Ellsbury has 26 less ABs.� -->-->History is history so don't bring up that Sizemore has proven himself, ask Frank Thomas where that got him. Beside I think Ellsbury is starting to prove himself just fine. -->-->Here is some more stupid for you, Ellsbury is batting .308 now ha ha-->-->�

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    I've tried to resist posting on this thread but I can't any longer. Who in there right mind would try to compare Teddy Ballgame to a player like Jacoby Ellsbury. Teddy Ballgame didn't bat leadoff or steal bases or patrol CF. You compare like players. Manny to Williams, Ellsbury to R. Henderson, Wade Boggs to Rod Carew. Why not just compare Ellsbury to Roger Clemens.

    Ted Williams might have been the best pure hitter of all time. Was he the best out fielder or leadoff hitter or base stealer----NO!--- there are other aspects to baseball.

    Stop this foolish comparison!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from brooksie380. Show brooksie380's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Nice post, Asheville.� Let's all just enjoy watching this kid blossom... that drag bunt after a two homer night to spark the winning rally?� If you love this game, THAT was a joy to watch unfold.� He is a player you tune in to watch even if he's not paying for or against your team that night.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    ����� Ashville good post,�� �I was�thinking about runs scored myself. I didn't realize what the record was. I also didn't realize how many runs Ellsbury had until a couple of days ago.� Because he had been platooning you tend not to think of any�league leaders stat�as�being realistic for Ellsbury.� It's funny how the more he plays the more his natural�ability to put up sick numbers is realized. He is good!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Hi Asheville,

    Ellsbury actually has 68 PA (2 HBP, 1 SF), and two of his runs came as a pinch-runner.� Thus his "production rate" is a perfect one run every four PA.� Still very impressive, if a small sample, but not quite as extreme as what you describe.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbh123. Show tbh123's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    You fellas know he has a Fiance right? I'm still on the wait and see with him. Waiti til the pitchers(the good ones) figure him out second time around. Thats the true test. Youk has passed this test. Pedroia passed as well. Still would trade him for Santana.�

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wildcat66. Show wildcat66's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    NH48 -- thanks, excellent catch...of COURSE it was the Angels, not the ChiSox -- why else would that game still be going on when I was forcibly being dragged out of the car around 7pm EDT?Oh, yes, I remember Pete Runnels and his battle down the stretch in 1958 (I think) with Teddy for the batting title -- Ted had a fantastic finish and wound up hitting .328 to Pete's (I hink) .322 -- Ted was around 40 at the time. Ted had hit .388 the year before -- the closest anyone had come to .400 since he had done it in 1941.� When asked, he said that he could easily have hit .400 if he were five years younger -- "I only needed five more hits, but there aren't any 'leg hits' for a 39-year old."�� Pete won a couple of batting titles in 1960 and1962.Jackie Jensen was, as I recall, one of the 'Sox few very good trades of that period -- I think they got him for Mickey McDermott and some spare parts.� He had some very good years with them -- won an RBI crown, I think.� He was deathly afraid of flying and, as expansion loomed, and air travel became common (vs trains), he called it a career early.Ike Delock, Mel Parnell, Tom Brewer, Willard Nixon (the Red Sox answer to Frank�Lary of Detroit -- could beat the Yanks like a drum, .500 against the rest of the league), Bill Momboquette, Earl Wilson, the immortal Pumpsie (should we retire his number?) Green, Chick Schilling, Gary Geiger, Gene Stephens (Ted's official glove carrier), Carroll Hardy (the only person to ever pinch hit for Ted Williams -- hit in Ted's spot after he came out of the game whee he homered in his last AB), Sammy White of course, and my all time favorite baseball name, Matt Batts (too bad he couldn't)..Ahh, those were the days ($3.00 Box seats), but these days are even better...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Softlaw,�Nothing significant between Ellsbury and Crisp. So for all the offense we get from Ellsbury he'll give it right back on the defense. What a bunch of bull. Do you ever read what you�write? Why did they play Ellsbury over CoCo last year in�the�playoffs, why not just stick with CoCo? Francona must know that for all the positives you get from Ellsbury on offense he'll just give it back on defense. So why not stick to the veteran. Your in the playoffs, you have a veteran in CoCo who played great defense�and your going to play a rookie who will give back nothing more then your veteran. Why play the rookie, if he doesn't add anything? Why play the rookie over a mutimillion dollar veteran, if the rookie doesn't give you any more then the veteran? I know the fans want Ellsbury but why Francona? Softlaw according to you, there is no difference between the two, none. We could have had Santana, lets go back to that for a minute. The Sox had two packages, one had Lester and CoCo the other had Ellsbury but not Lester. Because there is no difference between CoCo and Ellsbury, according to you. Why not have a package of Ellsbury and Lester. Again according to you there is no difference so why not have Lester and Ellsbury in a package.This year according to Softlaw, as good as Ellsbury has played on offense he is that bad on defense. That would mean he is one of the worst outfielders in the league because he has put up wonderful numbers on offense.�That�would also mean that CoCo's defense makes up for Ellsbury's offense. Forget the stat that says the Sox are 10 and 1 when Ellsbury scores, he must have DH'd those games.�In 13 games in cf,�CoCo has 27 put�outs and no assists. 13 games in cf, Ellsbury has 31 put outs and 1 assist, pretty significant.�Ellsbury--�� 21g��� 19 runs� 9 RBI� 29 TB� 3 HR�� OBP .438�� SLG .509� AVE .298Crisp--������� 13g����� 4 runs� 3 RBI�� 15 TB�0 HR�� OBP .349� SLG�.375� AVE. 325�Softlaw show us all, how you came to the conclusion that CoCo's defense makes up for Ellsbury's offense. ���������

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    When Jake sucks, like tonight, I'm going to say so for the simplypurpose of dishing out a little of the same medicine that Lugo's beengetting everytime he slumps.

    In other words, you believe two wrongs make a right?� More likely, by stirring the pot in this fashion you will inspire greater negativity and more extreme positions all around.

    Even given your prejudice in this matter, I wouldn't say he "sucked".� Shouldn't you reserve the big guns until he has an o-fer?

    Agreed that it will make it easier for Francona to start Crisp this afternoon (which he was planning on doing regardless).

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    But you can't downplay the signifigance of the series against the Rockies.

    Significance how?� As a historical event?� Or for predictive purposes?

    He did make a few significant contributions in that series, both offensively and defensively.� He won everybody in the country a rat wrap.� He got a big hit and made a big catch (as did other players as well).

    But none of that has any predictive value IMHO.� Even good players slump and even bad players have streaks of success, so a few games don't tell us anything we didn't already know.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Why did they play Ellsbury over CoCo last year in�the�playoffs, why not just stick with CoCo?

    Because he was tired, injured, and playing poorly (or at least hitting poorly) at the time.


    Why not have a package of Ellsbury and Lester. Again according to youthere is no difference so why not have Lester and Ellsbury in a package.

    I recall that several posters were advocating this position. :-)


    Softlaw show us all, how you came to the conclusion that CoCo's defense makes up for Ellsbury's offense.

    To phrase an argument like that, you must necessarily quantify the contributions of each.� Not exactly softlaw's speciality, and Ellsbury doesn't have enough of a track record for the usual statistical tools to be particularly helpful.� FWIW, the best statistical projections suggest that Ellsbury is likely to have a 20 point advantage in BA and OBP over Crisp this year, no advantage in SLG.� Crisp's defense likely makes up all or most of that SMALL gap.

    If you read his side comments, however, softlaw believes that public opinion has gone too far on Ellsbury, and he is intentionally saying silly things in the other direction to act as a "balance".� When he is not engaged in this kind of devils advocacy, he admits that Ellsbury is (or will be) a better player than Crisp.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    30, Tired, you don't make a�move like that just because he's tired, they were all tired, it was a long season.They made the move in the playoffs because CoCO couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. He was still playing great defense.There isn't a GM out there who thinks CoCo is better than Ellsbury, that's why they didn't put Lester and Ellsbury in a package together. CoCo has peaked and Ellsbury is just getting started

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from detourjazz. Show detourjazz's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    "WILL NOT GIVE US NUMBERS"

    Softlaw. .. first of all. unless you a.) have a time machine or b.) have the ability to go ahead in time. .

    DONT use the FALLCY OF saying such a specific thing as HE WILL NOT. No one. . knows that. .

    2.) YOU are a bashing troll. . stop it. . be a fan. .enjoy the game, and unless you're out there. . doing better. . . SHUSH

    3.) give him a break. he's young..he's new. .and POTENTIAL is something he has. .and all these negatives aren't anything but someone wanting to be negative. .

    THANK YOU

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Hi Berto,

    Guess I was jumping from A to C without going through B. :-)� Crisp was banged up in September/October, as he often is because of his "reckless" style of play.� Because he was banged up, he wasn't hitting.� Because he wasn't hitting, he got benched in the playoffs.

    There are reasoned arguments for and against Ellsbury as an "igniter" in the playoffs, but I don't think that question can fairly be answered by summary stats lines...� Maybe if somebody wants to go through the games one inning at a time, they might make a case for it?� I seem to remember some "timely" hits, if not in any great quantity.

    Softlaw objects to people (unfairly) ragging on Coco, and he believes the appropriate answer is to (unfairly) rag on Ellsbury.� I disagree with that approach, preferring to offer props to both, but I can see where he is coming from.� The general tone of discussion on this board doesn't give Crisp enough credit for his work over the course of the season.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Jacoby Ellsbury proved in that series that, for as long as he is aproductive player, he can get it done on the biggest of stages. Thatdefinitely counts for something.

    I'll give you that, Octavarium.� There may be some players who cave under pressure (though I think there are more who are unfairly slapped with that tag).� Ellsbury doesn't seem to be one of those.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3283346. Show user_3283346's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Myself I love them both. They both cover alot of ground in the field, both have above average arms. It does seem to me that ellsbury is more productive at the plate even though Coco looked good today. If i had my way we should keep them both! Those two plus Lugo can really create some havoc against good pitching which is something that could be useful for the middle of the linup to drive in rbi's.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    �� A hit, is a hit, is a hit. What is a hit? A hit is any ball that hit's the ground without someone touching it. A hit is any ball that gets caught up in the sun and should be an out but because the outfielder can't see it, it's considered a hit. On a normal day a can of corn is an out but on days like yesterday a can of corn becomes a jet stream double.� I saw three balls hit, two by CoCo and one by Cash. You take what you can get, unless you choose not to see the obvious. A hit is a hit is a hit. Thank God for that! Some people who choose to proove a point fail to see the obvious.It's funny how Ellsbury didn't do much in the WS last year, even though he was 7 for 16.On Sept. 30 he went 3 for 4, last day of reg. season.On Oct. 20 he replaces Crisp in game 6 of the alds and goes 1 for 5.�game #6.� Baseball is a game to� be played every day and this rookie sits for three weeks�goes 1 for 5. What should be expected,3for5. Ellsbury should not take a back seat to Crisp. Drew has been cold of late should he sit? Crisp will be traded and because of that he should be a backup. That's it,� a late inning replacement, like Ellsbury was last year in the playoffs. This is the kid who needs to play every day. He will get better the�more he plays. Splitting time with CoCo helps CoCo it doesn't help Ellsbury and it doesn't help the Red�Sox in the long run.�

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    It is a fact that Crisp hit .500 against the Rockies, and don't swing the double edged sword of small sample.

    Please explain why we can draw conclusions from certain small samples but not in others?� That isn't a debatable point, that's simple statistical fact.

    Ichiro is a punch and judy slaphitter with blazing speed for leading average and OBP.

    Ichiro is exceptional for his style of play, not for his overall value.� Most players have a BABIP (batting average on balls in play) around .300.� Ichiro's is over .350 for his CAREER.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Softlaw, the term "superstar" is pretty nebulous itself, so I'm not going to debate whether Ichiro is or isn't one.� I agree entirely that his fame stems from a couple outstanding skills rather than from a "complete package" of production.

    As for that two-edged sword, I would encourage you to swing it everywhere and anywhere it applies.� There are some good arguments to be made in favor of Ellsbury, but they aren't based on a mere 150 AB.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from badgealbert. Show badgealbert's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    THERE IS NOR EVER HAS BEEN ANOTHER TED WILLIAMS. HOWEVER SO FAR HE ACTS LIKE HE COULD BECOME ANOTHER PETE ROSE . THIS IS MENT AS A BALL PLAYER NOT ONE WITH THE PROBLEMS PETE BROUGHT ON HIMSELF
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Can I claim credit for Joba's meltdown?� He's on my fantasy team, thus guaranteed to have a miserable season.� Any other Yankees you would like me to curse? :-)

    Several teams are having pitching problems right now.� I have to think that the Red Sox are better situated than most to put an effective staff back together, especially with Beckett and Colon returning soon.� The surprise here, at least to me, has been the success of the Angels in the face of losing Lackey and Escobar for the entire season to date.� Saunders and Santana have both stepped up their games this year.



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    Question:� Are the Red Sox a better team with Crisp and Ellsbury, or only one of them?

    I think the Red Sox should trade Coco Crisp for Jake Peavy and Chase Headley (though we might have to throw in one of our highly-talented young pitchers like David Pauley to get it done).

    Otherwise I'd stand pat for now.� Our pitching might be scary at times, but it isn't obvious at this point who to cut or who to acquire, and I don't know that we would get anybody worthwhile for Crisp right now.� Trading him for a fungible short reliever just doesn't improve the team.� I'd rather attempt to fix the pitching through what we already have in-system first.

    Note that Kielty just underwent hand surgery.� If Crisp were to be traded, our fourth outfielder would likely be Jonathan Van Every.� Zero major league experience...


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury is no Ted Williams......but

    I can find 95% of what I'm looking for on Baseball-Reference.com, a TERRIFIC database site.

    Not sure whether I found runs scored as a pinch runner as a split, or whether I got that from the game log...

     
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