1. You have chosen to ignore posts from quint869. Show quint869's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Absolutely right.

    I like Ellsbury, great kid, good talent, and I want him in CF for the full season, but is his overhyped and then some.

    .300 plus or minus, decent OBP, little to no power, and 30 steals (leading off) 40-45 batting down the order.

    Thats about it, good player, someone I want on my team, but lets not go insane.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from vbredsoxaddict. Show vbredsoxaddict's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    I agree we need to see him play an entire season.� I think he'll live up to most people's expectations.� Speed is such a valuable asset (we don't need to remind anyone about Dave Roberts).� Ellsbury creates such a spark when he is in the line up.� Remember when he made it home from 2nd base on a wild pitch?�

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    .300 plus or minus, decent OBP, little to no power, and 30 steals

    Quint, read Keith Law.� You are missing his #1 talent: GREAT CF DEFENSE!!!

    That's a whole lot more valuable than hitting 20 home runs.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from quint869. Show quint869's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    yea no kidding, thats about the only thing we can agree on, so i left it out

    Also Crisp is actually better.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from denversawx. Show denversawx's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Gentlemen,Somebody please�tell me of a better everyday player to come up in the sox organization in the past 15 years.� I was at game 3 of the series at CURS field here in Denver...Ellsbury changes everything about the lineup...He's Cano but with wheels, and will play a top notch CF...Try pitching to Youk with him on first and Papi on deck.� You guys are nuts..Nuts... all of you...He's Grady Sizemore's brother for crying out loud.� 50 swipes

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from denversawx. Show denversawx's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    you are quoting Keith Law...dont you watch the games yourself?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maddog2020. Show maddog2020's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    the same yankee fans who say ellsbury is over hyped or no good are the same ones that say melky cabera is the greatest player they have seen in 20 years & would not trade him for santana or clemens in his prime.��

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Right now I'd say Ells and Coco are interchangable.� Coco's D isbetter, nearly comparable speed as a baseball value.� Ells is fasteroverall.� Coco has more power.� I see nearly identical SB and Avg/OBP.

    Either you are higher on Crisp than I am, or you are not giving Ellsbury quite enough credit.� Ellsbury projects to be roughly a .290 hitter based on his minor league numbers (including that stint at AAA that causes people to temper their expectations).� Crisp seems stuck at .270...� That difference in batting average should be the difference between roughly a .330 and .350 OBP, and the extra singles help to compensate for Crisp's greater home-run power.

    That said, there is some reason to hope that both players will outpace these stat-based projections.� Ellsbury's performance in 2006 at AA translates to roughly a .300 BA and .370 OBP.� He ripped through the league again in April 2007 before being promoted to Pawtucket and initially struggling.� But in August he caught on fire, carrying that success through September and October in the majors.� The statistical projections average this out to a .345-.350 OBP (depending on the system), balancing weak numbers in May-July at Pawtucket and similarly ordinary numbers in A-ball against the streaks of success with which he began and ended the season.� An alternative explanation is that he is rapidly improving -- just took a couple months to adjust to AAA after his mid-season promotion.� If this is actually the case, then all of the statistical projections are underestimating him.

    Crisp, too, may have greater potential than he showed last year.� We can see his success from 2004-2005, before his hand injury, but that is fading in the rear-view mirror.� Yet even this year, he averaged .300 from June 15th onward.� Am I picking my endpoints to emphasize his hot streaks?� Of course!� Yet there remains hope that he hasn't completely forgotten how to hit -- and that additional distance from that injury will help him recover his past success.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from quint869. Show quint869's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    you are aware that Ellsbury spent most of his year in Pawtucket, where he slugged, you guessed it, .380.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kdurradio. Show kdurradio's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    My take on this is fairly simply. First, Crisp cannot hit. His at bat's are terrible. Speed is his asset, but speed is not utilized when he hits endless lazy fly balls and pop-ups. He's totally overmatched at the plate. He's the best defensive centerfielder I've seen in a Red Sox uniform, but he simply cannot hit a lick.

    I did not want the Sox to trade Ellsbury under any circumstances. Is this because I think he's a lock for Cooperstown? Of course not. But winning two World Series in four years allows for certain luxuries as a fan, the biggest of which is that there's no need to be desperate to win now. So while the team would certainly be better with Santana, that's pretty easy, and it also would deprive us of the blast we might have watching Ellsbury run the bases. That's what I want to sit back and watch, because I doubt we've ever seen anyone quite like him in a Sox uniform, slapping his way onto first, then scoring on a gap single, rounding third base like a flash in the process. That's the luxury we now have. The desperate pressure to win once before we all die is gone. Instead, we can sit back and watch the kid play, and see if he has greatness in him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeflonPete. Show TeflonPete's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    i knew that title would get you in here.� My topic is about how Sox fans have completely overhyped Ellsbury over the last couple of months.� Here is Kieth Law's (Used to be a scout for the Toronto Blue jays, now does scouting for Espn) top 100 prospects.http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3221365I�hope all of the Ellsbury enthusiasts saw that he is the #5 CF prospect in the game, and the #8 OF.�nothing is certainthe numbers require analysis - over half of the 18 guys rated above Ellsbury have never played above AA ball, so they've got tons of potential, but they're a ways away from the bigs.................

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tsawyer8. Show tsawyer8's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Ells and Coco are interchangeable? Ells was the spark-plug that helped win us the division, that won us the championship series after Tito BENCHED Coco and that helped us win The Series! When has the word spark-plug been used in association with Coco in the last year and a half? Last year Coco had a career high 28 swipes, Ells will do about that in the first half, 50 last year. Power? Coco had 6 homers last year, 8 the year before. I think Ells can come up with that whopping total. OBP? Coco's career OBP is a stunning .329 Ells conservatively, .390ish. Defense? Coco has turned himself into a gold glove caliber center fielder no doubt, but after watch Ells play last year I strongly believe he will be on par with Coco in no time.
    Scoring from second on the pass ball? He was waved home by Hale! If you didn't see it, you shouldn't bring it up. I seriously doubt that every time there's a pass ball and he's on second, he'll try to score. It's like saying that, "I don't know why everyone's making such a big thing about the Buchholz no-hitter. He's not gonna do it every time he's on the mound." It was just fun to watch.
    This is the RED SOX not The Rays, salary is NOT a concern! Especially with Crisp making only about 9 million for the next 2 years. This about the Sox seriously needing a lead off hitter, which Coco and Lugo are not.
    Coco pressed because of other players performances? What are you his Mom? He couldn't play as well as the other boys cuz he had a tummy ache. Christ! Tell me Dr. Phil, what was his excuse for sucking in 2006?
    Maybe Tek, Drew and Lugo were pressing to pick up Coco?
    Now that we've got Kielty, let's get what we can for him. Sign Patterson and play ball!!!!
    GO SOX!!!!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tsawyer8. Show tsawyer8's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    And hating the Sox.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hatrzdog. Show hatrzdog's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Somebody please�tell me of a better everyday player to come up in the sox organization in the past 15 years.

    Better sox positional prospect in the past 15 years?� I seem to remeber some guy named Nomar who came up through the system and then owned this city for a couple of years.� We forget that, for a time, he looked like a first-ballot hall of famer.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauljmc. Show pauljmc's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Since you are a Sox hater, it is hard to believe what you write. Yes Ellsbury maybe over hyped, then he may not be. Lets see what a full season brings. I would rather have Ellsbury then any of the old guys the Yankees have.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lopi1122. Show lopi1122's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Jacoby Ellsbury apperaed in 44 mlb games last year, including playoffs. In 141 plate appearances,� he hit .350 with 3hr� 22rbi� 11sb(11-11)� 15xbh� .411obp 11bb and 28 runs scored. Average that out to a full season and you have a much better player than Coco Crisp. Coco Crisp has shown no signs of improvement. Jacoby makes better contact and has more speed. Not to mention he is an above average fielder. We may not see the highlight reel catches like we have with Coco, but not many teams in the MLB do. He is a spark plug to an explosive offense. He is only 24 years old and is only going to get better. He resembles, in some ways, a younger Kenny Lofton with more potential. If he stays healthy throughout his career, we could be looking at one of the best outfielders/leadoff hitters in baseball for many years.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheRedStain. Show TheRedStain's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    "completely overhyped Ellsbury"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You spelled "Hughes" wrong.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stri1. Show stri1's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Don't play the tired old objective vs. subjective card, that's a load of nonsense. This is the friggin' internet, we're all subjective here.

    The best foundation any of us have for assessing Ellsbury is his turn in the playoffs. Period. And we all know one of the single biggest factors in turning the Cleveland series around was sitting Coco and playing Ellsbury. He was the offensive catalyst with timely hitting and disruptive base-running. Whether Jacoby is streaky or not is a red herring. Nearly all ballplayers are streaky to some degree. The real question is whether he is clutch. He sure was last October, offensively and defensively. The playoffs not only reflect a player's fundamentals, they also tell us a lot about their intangibles. And if you hadn't figured out by now, Jacoby's intangibles are off the charts.

    Bottom line: I'll take a playoff series over a minor league season any day in terms of assessing what a rook's potential might be.

    Oops, but that sounds so subjective, I forgot I'm supposed to stick to just the numbers. Hey, did you here about this cool new idea from Bill James? Its called a closer-by-committee, statistically there's no way it can fail!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tsawyer8. Show tsawyer8's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    �Yes tard, I read, then I respond. This is you, "As for scoring fm second on a PB/WP, though exciting, it's a rather dumb rookie play." and my repley was- he was waved in by the 3rd base coach. Are you saying the coach is a dumb rookie? I don't think so.I was willing to cut Coco some slack for 06 too until 07 came along. OBP .330, 6 hr (2 less than 06�and played 40 more games) 84 strikeouts..... I can go on and on.Ells had 9 stolen bases in 33 games and�about 7�of those 33 games he came in late for defense. You saying Tito wouldn't let a guy who 9 and 0 in 33 games loose for the season?�Even if he get caught�7 times, he's disrupting the hell out of the opposing�pitcher and he's in scoring position the other 50 times.So he's a streaky .300 hitter....� Coco's a streaky .260 hitter. Which one do you want again?I did misunderstand your salary statement. My bad.I just reread your post. What Billy Rohr question?I did notice that you avoided reponding to most of my post though. I guess I got the rest of it right.Other that the salary thing. There is nothing eles I mistook. It seems simple, you like Coco. I get it.�� Me? �I just want the best player we have in centerfield.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack. Show fenwayjack's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Oh well if Keith Law said, by all means, we shouldn't expect much from Ellsbury.� Btw wasn't he one of the many fools who predicted Manny would be traded every single year since 2003?� I couldn't care less what these guys predict.� They create something when nothing is there.� I watch the games and make my own judgements.� Of course it'll take a full season for Jacoby to prove he wasn't just a flash in the pan last year.� I don't know a single Red Sox fan who expects him to be a slugger.�� But he appears to have a good swing, makes contact, and is fast as hell so he'll beat out a lot of ground balls too.� He's be a major distraction for pitchers when he's on base too.� One thing is for sure we'd much rather have him than that mediocre Melky Cabrera Yankee fans were once so high on.�

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fredtangel. Show fredtangel's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Hmm, lets see, the sox were down 3 games to 1 to the Indians when they� inserted Ellsbury into the lineup and I'm trying to remember what happened after that...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Another brainless comment by Sox hater. Have to love a Yankee troll who hangs on a RS thread espically after RS have won 2 WS in 4 years, no life I guess.

    Scouts can rate Ellsbury where ever they want. But those of us who have seen him play no the real deal. Hit almost 500 in AA, well over 300 AAA and over 300 in Playoffs & WS. But its more the energy he brings to a team that makes him a special player. Lets not forget T.Brady was drafted in the 6th round, so much for scouts opinions, its what they do on the field that matters.

    If I were Sox hater I would be more worried that Joba lives up to the hype of being rated no.1 by same scout. Because if doesn't do it in starting rotation along with the other 2 rookies [Hughes / Kennedy], he can watch playoffs on TV right alongside his favorite Yanks.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    Hey I've got a wacky idea.� Why don't we just let the kid play a full season and see how he does?
    It is so good to read comments that make sense. So many Yank and Sox fans are putting such lofty expectations onto a bunch of 21-24 y.o.'s who have less than 4� months M.L. experience and I don't understand why. Let's just give them a chance.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    the same yankee fans who say ellsbury is over hyped or no good are the same ones that say melky cabera is the greatest player they have seen in 20 years & would not trade him for santana or clemens in his primeI have not seen one Yankee fan who said that they wouldn't trade Melky for Santana. Maybe they said that they didn't want to trade, Melky, Hughes, Kennedy and a bunch of other kids for Santana. I think we need to keep somethings in perspective and stop being such "fanboys" all the time. Ellsbury has potential up the yahoo, but let the kid blossom into it. Stop putting such pressure on the kid. I still can't believe that Pesky said that Ells could be the next Ted Williams (did he really say that?). That had to be one of the dumbest comments ever made; I mean that statement certainly� raises the temperature of the fans and expectations.If�he starts the year in CF, I hope he at least gets off to a decent start, because I think the "fanboys will be merciless if he winds up going the first couple of months batting .220 with 5 S.B.The same thing goes for Clay B., Joba and Hughes. Let the kids just play.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Ellsbury overhyped?

    the same yankee fans who say ellsbury is over hyped or no good are the same ones that say melky cabera is the greatest player they have seen in 20 years & would not trade him for santana or clemens in his prime.Show me one comment by a Yankee fan that said they wouldn't trade Melky for Santana!� Show me one fan that said he was the greatest player to come out of the organization in 20 years! Not even drunk Yankee "fanboys" would say something as ridiculous as that. Maybe the fans did not want to trade Melky, Hughes, Kennedy and 2 other prospects for Santana.Let's not confuse objective or even basic subjective points of view with those of� the "fanboys". Just like I say to all the Yank fans who are screaming and yelling for the coronation of Joba, I will say to you, let Ells play into his role. I have seen so many different projections for Ellsbury and I am not quite sure where he will actually end up. Even Pesky got into it with his ridiculous comment that we are possibly seeing the next Ted Williams (Did he really say that?) Can you all put anymore pressure on the kid? Even better, why would you put such pressure onto this kid? He had a great call-up and exceptional post-season. Minor league numbers were great, no question! Does anyone remember Shane Spencer and what he did not turn into to! �Let the kids play and let's enjoy watching them as they possibly become the future of the sport. If the Sox and Yanks are banking 2008 on the success of these kids, then I think both teams might be in for a long season. I hope they all continue to grow and contribute. In that way, this great rivalry will continue to go on for many years to come.

     
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