1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]Moon...I think the point is Manny isn't on the team anymore. The situation has been static for 8 months. At this point everyone has their opinion. Mine in fact is in tune with ypurs. But since there is nothing new to talk about it becomes tedious.

    bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Moony,

    My stats are meaningless, yet yours aren't. Nice! At least you admit you never expected anything much from Lugo. Too bad you can't take away the fact that he was the wire to wire SS on the first division winning and title team we've had since the early 20th cenury. He is what he is, and he's not a bust compared to all these other weak hitting union vet SS's. Some numbers are higher some lower. Get a reality check.

    Oh, and Manny's not coming back, except reincarnated as a tanking slug.[/Quote]

    I know Manny is gone. I'm not the only one talkin Manny, everyone, even you, keeps on going and going and going. I'm over it, really, I am, but when someone tries to minimize his contributions to the rings, I am going to speak out on the side of truth and reality. I have said countless times, Manny is a jerk, but even jerks can be damn good players.

    You have your own view of what the word "bust" means. To you, a player who bats .100 but plays all year for a winning team, can not be a bust, cause they won, right? You have never answered what you would call a bust even if the team wins it all despite how much he sucks.
    He's getting paid way more than most SSs, he has not earned his union pay. He is a bust. Not from high expectations, but from near total failure in all areas except speed.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote] You'll be hearing from me if "the talent" of Jake results in another year of low OBP and lower BA and OBP than Crisp. I doubt you'll be here, fool.[/Quote]

    I know I have mentioned this months ago, but Ellsbury's career OBP is better than Crisp's best OBP (2005). Ellsbury's 50 SB last year are equal to Crisp's best TWO seasons (2006-2007). Look, I like Crisp, and I hope he does well in KC, but don't discount Ellsbury. If you don't see the talent, and see what many scouts see, then maybe you should open your eyes a little more.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    yawn another Softy thread spouting the same drivel we've heard for months.

    The truth:

    1.) All intelligent Sox fans should want the TB, or at least career, Lugo to get the starting job and succeed this year, Lowrie is more suited to a utility role.

    2.) Lugo has been a bust up to this point in a Red Sox uniform, was demoted in '07 after historically bad #'s and had more errors than extra base hits in '08 before being hurt, whereupon Lowrie outplayed him

    3.) Hearing things like "I don't see the talent in Lowrie" from a guy who admitted to watching only a few reg season games is a laugh. Softy admits to disliking/ignoring stats (like the ones that show Lugo was awful/outplayed), and is overall very ignorant about the game ("Pujols is yesterdays news"). So we have a #1 pick in '05, minor league hitter of the year in '07, outplayed Lugo in '08 w/ a broken hand, and now the guy who has seen the kid play in 3-4 reg season games and the playoffs (and trashed the walk-off ALDS hit when all the real Sox fans were celebrating) is going to say he "can't see the talent"???

    hahaha.....ladies and gentleman board jester Softlaw/s/e/2

    Yes Lowrie still has a lot to prove and hasn't earned the job and yes pre-2007 Lugo would be the best choice to start. But the BS Softy spews up here is pretty much worthless and rooted in the wrong and ignorant hate agenda he's had on Lowrie (and Ells) for months. Disgusting.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxman16. Show soxman16's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    I agree that Lugo gets SS to start the year. He looks good right now and actually stronger than usual. Lowrie has never impressed me from day 1 and still has not shown me much. Go Lugo and Go SOX.. I still think SS is up for grabs between these two but for now I believe you start Lugo and take it from there unless Lowrie just catches fire somehow..

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    Hyperbole does nothing but undercut your position. Lugo's near career high levels in RBI's undercuts your claim that he's a total near failure "in all areas but speed"

    Getting a lot of ground out RBI's b/c you hit in a World Champion lineup while batting a pathetic .237/.294 still makes you a bust.

    When you hit 40 points less than you are supposed to in both avg and OBP, don't score the runs a leadoff hitter should (see Ellsbury-2008) and are demoted to 9th, but happen to run into a decent RBI total (that many people here have shown is deceptive) doesn't make you a success.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]

    I know I have mentioned this months ago, but Ellsbury's career OBP is better than Crisp's best OBP (2005). Ellsbury's 50 SB last year are equal to Crisp's best TWO seasons (2006-2007). Look, I like Crisp, and I hope he does well in KC, but don't discount Ellsbury. If you don't see the talent, and see what many scouts see, then maybe you should open your eyes a little more.[/Quote]

    Great post.

    The guy is full of ignorant hate and been destroyed by many for months w/ the simple stats that show how clearly Ellsbury outplayed Crisp as a Red Sox. There really is no debate. One had a great '07 postseason, the other an awful one. One had a good '08 postseason the other a good ALDS and awful ALCS.

    Regular season? It's no contest. Ellsbury totally outplayed Crisp's 16 months in his 7 months. Crisp was injured in '06 but not '07.Ellsbury was injured for 2 months in '08 and STILL outplayed Crisp's healthy '07. Ellsbury won the starting job over Crisp last year. Crisp was a good soldier who thankfully pulled it together with a few good weeks at the end of the year (was hitting .247 Aug 18th) and was traded for a solid player who will help us.

    Time to move on and support the player who is here Softy instead of trashing him AND THEN making idiotic trade suggestions like "Ellsbury and a pitcher we go back and forth on w/ Cleve" for Grady Sizemore. Fool.

    In his 5 months without a wrist injury Ellsbury had a .375 OBP. In the 2 months he was hurt, a .271 OBP. That is why he ended up at .336 in '08. He's bound to improve. Why don't you give him till July or August this year before you start with the same old pathetic hate and lies Softflaw.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from czap. Show czap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    Hey softhead, You now only have Lugo now that your precious Coco is gone. All your marbles into the Lugo basket makes you an idiot. If you cant see that he doesnt understand the game and is a bust I pity you. Yes he will start. He plays only shortstop and makes 9 million a year numbnuts. Lowrie made him look stupid last year even when Lugo was healthy. I like a shortstop who makes the routine plays. Lugo didnt perform last year his stats prove it. Ells and Lowrie outperformed Lugo and Crisp and you cant deal with it. Coco is gone and Lugo would be too if we could have got a bag of balls in return. How dumb are you? Sorry to be you. Watch some games and get back with me.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]

    As far as jed goes, he may not be the next Nomar, but, if Lugo is improved enough to be a reliable #9 hitter and less-error-prone SS, I really really like the thought of Lowrie in the utility role. He plays a nails 3B to go with his SS and hits decent. Thats a weapon we need and haven;t had (I love Cora, but seriously).[/Quote]

    And I see it differently.

    In fact, if Lugo is the starter, I think the Sox need a utility infielder. I see no reason why Jed Lowrie should be sitting on the Boston bench, getting about 30 at-bats over the first 2 months of the season, while 30yo career minor leaguer Gil Velasquez is getting actual playing time in Pawtucket.

    I do agree Lowrie is a solid 3b with a great arm, and that is probably where his future is. The Sox don't have a 3b between Lowell and Middlebrooks right now, unless you count Lowrie. Popular consenus seems to be Youkilis moving to 3b to accomodate Anderson, but there might be other openings by the time Anderson gets here.

    If Lugo is the starter, get a decent utility infielder. REally, you only need a guy who can fill in for one day. If one of the starting infielders goes down, Lowrie is a bus trip away.

    There are no reasonable utility guys left, but players like that are not all that tough to acquire...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    Ells and Lowrie outperformed Lugo and Crisp and you cant deal with it. Coco is gone and Lugo would be too if we could have got a bag of balls in return. How dumb are you? Sorry to be you. Watch some games and get back with me.

    Story of the guys existance on this board right there. Nailed it.

    I personally will be giving Lugo 35-40 starts before I start asking for changes or congratulating him for playing his best ball in Boston That is surely more time than Softflaw will give Ellsbury, b/c the man spiteful and vindictive.

    Lugo has been a bust to this point. I am praying for .270/.335/7 HR/50 runs 50 RBI, 25 steals and under 18 errors from Lugo in 125-30 starts.

    Sad thing is that's below average, really does nothing to erase his awful 07-08.. and Softy will be dancing in the streets saying "I told you so" as Lugo piddles along near his career averages (ones lowered greatly by an awful 07-08) when in reality almost EVERYONE here WANTS Lugo to put up those #'s and to try to earn his paycheck/be the starter.

    and yeah softy, buy the MLB package and WATCH SOME GAMES THIS YEAR, when you tell guys who watch 155 reg season games that you've watched 15... and then HATE on the youth of the team we've watched grow as ballers, while defending the historically bad vets we've all watched underperform... you don't have any credibility.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]

    And I see it differently.

    In fact, if Lugo is the starter, I think the Sox need a utility infielder. I see no reason why Jed Lowrie should be sitting on the Boston bench, getting about 30 at-bats over the first 2 months of the season, while 30yo career minor leaguer Gil Velasquez is getting actual playing time in Pawtucket.

    I do agree Lowrie is a solid 3b with a great arm, and that is probably where his future is. The Sox don't have a 3b between Lowell and Middlebrooks right now, unless you count Lowrie. Popular consenus seems to be Youkilis moving to 3b to accomodate Anderson, but there might be other openings by the time Anderson gets here.

    If Lugo is the starter, get a decent utility infielder. REally, you only need a guy who can fill in for one day. If one of the starting infielders goes down, Lowrie is a bus trip away.

    There are no reasonable utility guys left, but players like that are not all that tough to acquire...
    [/Quote]

    I understand what you are saying, but I doubt Lowrie gets only 30 AB in the first couple of months as a utility player. He very well might play twice a week at both short and third, and possibly a game or two during the first two months to give Pedroia a day off. So I can see him getting 120 AB early, and that is with no injuries, just to give Lugo and Lowell more time to heal and not push them too much. I think this is what the Sox envision.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    never said Manny to the Yankees, said LA-SF (if 3 yrs) and Yanks as darkhorse... get your lies straight... LIAR

    and yes when your leadoff guy gets demoted to 9th, has an OBP UNDER .300! and doesn't score runs like he did the previous several years., despite stealing 30 bases... HE'S A BUST
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]
    To you, a player who bats .100 but plays all year for a winning team, can not be a bust, cause they won, right?

    Hyperbole does nothing but undercut your position. Lugo's near career high levels in RBI's undercuts your claim that he's a total near failure "in all areas but speed". You know that's not true, and you also are familiar with his career averages.
    While a guy hitting .100 isn't going to be on the field in a major league uniform, anytime a team has a starter member go wire to wire and wins the division and a title, no such player is a "bust". The problem with most baseball geeks is they play this little pretend game where they think they are junior GM's. They don't know a frickin' thing about the details, other than how to look at the stat book and use hindsight to make claims of who is the best fantasy team player.

    I'm interested in winners in a team sport, and only look up stats to expose the childish games that fantasy code pink punks like to worship to disaffect certain players for the latest season.
    [/Quote]

    criticizing horrible moves by a GM is not pretending to be a GM, it is discussing reality.

    i chose hyperbole to try to get an answer from you, and you still never have answered.

    what would it take for you to call Lugo a bust? .150, .180, .200, .220?

    you claim just because he started "wire to wire" that shows he cant be a bust.

    i asked a valid question. of course .100 wouldn't play all year... duh!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    [Quote]Like him or not, soon to be gone or not, Lugo was a wire to wire starter on a division and WS title team who will always be a winner on that team. And, yes, Manny was a member, as well. Big difference is that Lugo isn't a quitter like Manny, when he doesn't get what he wants.[/Quote]

    bigger difference is, we could have still won with any and all other ML SS's, we couldn't have won with just any other LF'er.

    you really have no clue.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    Moonslav, we also wouldnt have won a 2004 WS without Derek Lowe. But thats for a different thread.

    This round goes to Moonslav AGAIN. As he continues to lay down objective and reasonable thought.

    Softlaw, when youre trying to make any hard conviction and really analyze you need to neutralize as many other variables as possible. If you are judging a player purely on team performance, you are failing to do this. There are just too many variables that go into winning a WS, and therefore the correlation between WS rings and talent of starting ss isnt as strong of a correlation as you seem to imply. If you judge individuals purely on team results, your logic will also suggest things like: Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino (1 superbowl to 0), Pat Burell is a better outfielder than Jason Bay (1 WS ring to 0), Jamie Moyer is a better pitcher than Brandon Webb....

    The point is you need to look deeper than team results because it accounts for too many variables to make any hard convictions on specifics. You need to neutralize variables, and yes, individual performance (stats) do this far better than team results.

    Playing for a winning team is not always the best gage of individual success, as many chumps have won championships and many HOF's never have.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    I hope he fails! (oh wait, that's Obama).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    Great post Drewski, sums up the multiple flaws of our board jester quite well
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    baseball is far FAR less of a team sport than football or basketball FOOL. If you had a player play as bad as Lugo's been here at SS as the QB or starting power forward those teams would never win. How many times do teams in those sports with one of the worst players in the league at those positions (as Lugo was in '07) win titles? almost NEVER. Horrible analogy.

    And I put NY as a "ugh it's possible" 2nd-3rd likely destination for Manny, behind LA, BEFORE Cashman said they were not going to be interested... spiteful little loser

    So keep finding accurate at the time quotes from weeks and weeks ago that nobody cares about. Everyone knows you are the sad pathetic little fool w/ no baseball knowledge... you just keep proving this point with your pathetic pointless lies

    As for your idiocy:

    Pujols is yesterdays news (spelled his name wrong twice)

    He's not worth Youk (1 yr older) Buch/Bowden in a trade

    Ellsbury and a pitching prospect can be traded for Sizemore or Hamilton

    Lugo lived up to expectations and wasn't a bust

    Ellsbury deserves to be in an Indians hat b/c he is Native American but sucks so he is "no Jim Thorpe" (racist A-hole)

    Crisp was better than Ellsbury

    Lowrie has shown no talent

    Keep up the good work Softy, everyone here knows you are a fool and a joke..

    On Decemeber 20th the Sox were the favs to land Tex, considering NY had yet to make a better offer and all the media was presenting it as such, Henry WAS bluffing Boras, On February 2nd it WAS possible Manny could go to NY... I said LA was the favs... but NY wasn't ruled out yet...

    go away little baby boy, and take your ignorant hate with you...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Lugo sharp, Likely Starter

    And who is Charley Barclay? does he know Pujhols or Puhols? Maybe Jim Thorp??
     
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