1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Here are the words from NE Insider. After you read his explanation of the Vrabel/Cassel trade, ask yourself this: which explanation makes more sense...the ESPN media-ites, or his:

    1. Early on we called every team we thought might be interested and ALL of them basically told us no deal wanted except for KC. At no time did WE EVER make a demand for a specific draft pick or a player be involved. That is bad business since you pigeon hole yourself and your trading partner. The best trades are those that work for both teams perceived benefit.

    2. We were so tight up against the CAP we needed to create room quickly to sign Fred Taylor and Baker who were our prime targets in early FA. They fit what we wanted perfectly. We feel we are set at RB now and Baker is the type of combo tight end we like. Above average blocker and a good receiver which makes him a 3 down TE.

    3. We called all the teams again several days before the FA period began and except for KC we had no interest. Our feeling was they were trying to play hardball because we were against the CAP and if not for KC they were correct but we were doing the trade ASAP.

    4. Vrabel will always be revered as long as I am involved in football but we needed to clear the CAP. There was no desire to cut Mike but his play had slipped and with Bruschi, Guyton, Mayo he was not going inside. KC stepped up and took him on Friday for the proverbial pick to be named later which was really CAP space or cash to us. Great move for KC since he will help them and a better move for us since we freed up the money to immediately sign Taylor and Baker. It was a win-win and was really separate from the Cassel trade but was done with a belief the Cassel trade would follow. Mike knew what was going on every second and was IMHO not upset at all because in essence Mike will be the 3-4 coach on the field for KC which is what he has always wanted to be. The paperwork was at the NFL on Friday signed and agreed to since Mike passed his physical it was finalized. When Cassel was traded we tidied up the pick to be named later by linking it to the #2 on Saturday. There never was going to be a pick later. KC did us a big favor here. Reese did an amazing job with Bill during this entire process and has already eased the loss of someone as important as Scott.

    5. The Cassel trade was agreed to later in the day but unlike other teams we wanted to tell Matt and Scott wanted to talk with Thigpen. The paperwork reached the NFL mid Saturday. When Schefter announced this our phone started ringing off the hook. By the way Shefter knew before paperwork got to NFL but kept his word and did not announce it. Detroit, Denver (don't really understand that one), Bucs, Vikes, and several others wanted in. We could have just shafted KC and pulled trade back but we were never really offered a better deal than Detroit's #33 and we would not shaft another team we already had a deal in place with.

    6. We were never offered a first by ANYONE.

    7. We received calls every minute on the minute it seems from ESPN and they were not hung up on but they get nothing from us. Shefter somehow knew before we let it out, he is good, and I believe he was asked to wait til we had told all parties involved and he was a man of his word which is why he has access to us.

    8. Mortenson is a liar. We would never tell anyone about a failed trade. It is bad business and unethical and why would we want to make ourselves look bad?? That should have been a red flag for everyone. ESPN has NO access to anything Patriots unless a player talks with them and most have little use for them. Worst yet the information was wrong about the late offer from Denver which was a #2 and a conditional pick next year if I remember right. Bad trade for us since a #2 pick in the upcoming draft is priceless at the top. A lot of teams want to drop into the second round this year.

    9. Some of the above info I was privy to and some is heresay and from talks with someone involved so take it for what it is worth.

    I find it laughable that anyone would believe Bill would do anything to harm our football team but then we are taking about ESPN and the ESPN mindset of news without credibility are we not?????

    Thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Awesome analysis. Nailed what I and most intelligent Pats (and football) fans should already know about the deal or what they should have expected was the case.

    Morons like Callahan on WEEI need to chill out and ESPN/Mortenson need to check what they spew before they spew it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Amen, brother. How can any Patriots' fans believe anything about BB and their great team that originates from ESPN?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    This explains why ESPN doesn't like the Pats. There's a fued going on and it sounds pretty nasty.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Thankfully we now have the NFL Network so we don't have to listen to the ESPN bozos. I'll take Adam Schefter anytime over the losers at ESPN.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ScottJ123. Show ScottJ123's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    ESPN Has been on the decline it takes every story and runs it 50 times through. The reports are guessing and rumors the facts are we Traded a QB and a linebacker we all liked for the second round pick. Now we sit back come draft day and see what fall's out of the first . Then all the talk will begin again on how the PAT's Stole Christmas LMAO

    Scott
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Thanks TP...makes perfect sense and is kind of what I assumed the whole time. Luckily I don't watch the mindless blather at ESPN so I don't really know what's being said, but to me the deal makes perfect sense for both sides.

    KC doesn't really know what they're getting and Vrabel isn't the guy he used to be, plus we had severe cap issues and not much interest to work with. It all equals a HIGH #2.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    If I read this correctly, the pats got nothing for Matt Cassel.

    My interpretation then is that this deal was done some time around the day Pioli left the pats or before.

    Pioli tells Belichick he wants matt. Belichick agrees to lock him up with the tag with these caveats. 1. He's got to know Brady is healthy enough to go next year. 2. He has the right to back out if an outlandish offer is made on Cassell by another team. It did not transpire so KC took Cassell without having to negotiate for him as a free agent.

    If the story above is true, Belichick in this case truly took care of his own which is what he wanted and did not care about getting something for Cassell.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    [Quote]
    If I read this correctly, the pats got nothing for Matt Cassel.

    My interpretation then is that this deal was done some time around the day Pioli left the pats or before.

    Pioli tells Belichick he wants matt. Belichick agrees to lock him up with the tag with these caveats. 1. He's got to know Brady is healthy enough to go next year. 2. He has the right to back out if an outlandish offer is made on Cassell by another team. It did not transpire so KC took Cassell without having to negotiate for him as a free agent.

    If the story above is true, Belichick in this case truly took care of his own which is what he wanted and did not care about getting something for Cassell.
    [/Quote]

    No, you didn't read it correctly....the Pats got a #2 pick in the second round for Cassel and Vrable.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from justme2. Show justme2's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Great stuff. quite boring. No wonder ESPN hates the Pats.. NO DRAMA !!! LOL... Thanks for the update NE.. As usual you are spot on...

    Also, there will be negative comments posted to your updates. PLEASE ingnore them completely.. The vast majority on this board look for your posts first, and read every word as the gospel..
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsgrl. Show patsgrl's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Seriously, what did everyone think NE would get for Cassel with a $12million price tag?

    And why would NE want a first round to tie up alot of money on an unproven player?

    I am sad to see Vrable go but they traded him as a courtesy to him, he still gets his contract and gets to play. Otherwise he would have been cut.

    Stuff happens, now how they use the pick and the cap money is the big question.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    [/Quote]

    No, you didn't read it correctly....the Pats got a #2 pick in the second round for Cassel and Vrable.[/Quote]


    Really? Here is the quote:

    "KC stepped up and took him on Friday for the proverbial pick to be named later which was really CAP space or cash to us...When Cassel was traded we tidied up the pick to be named later by linking it to the #2."

    Nowhere in the comments did it mention the pats compensation for Cassell. All this says to me is that the deal was set up to essentially give KC a nearly exclusive shot at the deal unless an outrageous offer was made that could not be turned down.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mainerguy. Show mainerguy's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    I understand this is beating a dead horse, but it's these pieces that should futher the understanding that spygate was only as big a deal as it was because of media outlets like ESPN and their sensationalism.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Faucet - I was not suggesting that it was a bad deal for the pats, just that they got nothing for Cassell. Ultimately, this is no big deal because the got more for Vrabel than they should have.

    The facts, however, are that the pats were only in a tight cap situation because they chose to put themselves there by franchising cassell. Without doing that they would have been 21-22 mill under the cap.

    Believing now that they really got nothing for cassell, it appears that they never really expected to get much of anything for him so they did a favor to Pioli by locking Cassell up with the tag to give Pioli an almost exclusive shot at him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    ESPN is to sports journalism what The NAtional Enquirer is to real journalism. Mortenson basically speculated and lied and in the process tried to torpedo Mc Daniels tenure in Denver before he even started. He had no way of validating his sources. Again, it is all sensationalism at its worst. Doesn't matter because the Pats don't make business decisions based on what some clown from ESPN thinks or says.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    How are you figuring NE got nothing for Cassle and more for Vrabel????

    Please elaborate. I mean I am seriously shaking my head.

    Nowhere in that passage does it mention anything about Vrabel being dealt for a #34. Ne just decided to include Vrabel.

    It mentions CASSEL being dealt for the #34 adn the Pats viewing whatever they got for VRABEL as a "cash or cap space," meaning they expected nothing for him, most likely something like a 7th.

    Methinks you are reading the way you want to and not the way it is supposed to be read. If ANYTHING, it implies what is borderline obvious. That Vrabel was a pure salary dump that they tied to Cassel at the last minute, and they got nothing for Vrabel, which is fine because he was likely to be cut anyhow.

    The only other plausible scenario is that NE likely wanted this year's second because it is basically a first rounder and provides instant help/youth. And KC was probably starting negotiations with a future second rounder which most likely would not be as high.

    My gues (in that case) would be that the bargaining had come down to a late round pick for Vrabel and next year's second for Cassel. And Ne just packaged them to get the pick they really wanted.

    Simply saying that they were going to get a #34 for Vrabel (which is patently ludicrous) doesn't make it so.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    The scenario that unfolded is painfully obvious because it is so bloody logical.

    DET, DEN, KC, etc, all did exactly what I would have done. They waited. They saw NE's cap situation, thought that NE could demand something liek a pair of first day picks if a line of suitors showed up, and did nothing, hoping a lack of action would force NE to lower its demands.

    Along comes KC, and they offer a #34. As soon as the other FO's hear that they think that it could be cheaper than they thought and that Cassel might get moved. Detroit is thinking, we ahve the #33 or #20 if it comes to it. And DEN is thinking, well if we can flip Cutler for the #19 and then the #19 for Cassel, we come out with the Qb we want and lose nothing.

    At that point the, because Pioli was so aggresive it was simply too late. Cassel was probably on a plane to KC for a physical. The paper work had likely been drawn up. And NE didn't want to squash a deal that was already there for 13 or 14 spots in the draft, knowing that the deal with KC might not be on the table later if they broke it off at the 11th hour.

    I don't know how anyone (without an obvious angle of slandering NE) could see this as anything different. If DEN or DET had come up more aggressively then Cassel would be in one of those cities and NE would have a #33 or a #19.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    No attempt to be slanderous, and I understand your point.

    Here is my point - the words used to describe the compensation for the vrabel deal were "a pick to be named later", then within the cassel dealing, they "tidied up" the above noted "pick to be named later". That's it.

    You tell me where specifically in that post it states what the compensation for Cassel was.

    Yes Vrabel was a cap dump, but that is unrelated.

    Whether or not NE Insders words (through TP) are miss written, I can't say, but the comprehension of what was written is clear. And it can easily be extrapolated that Belichick was prepared to help Pioli by locking up Cassell.

    If the other teams did the right thing by waiting (and if you know this then Belichick certainly did), then it was a foregone conclusion that Cassell was going to KC, and the tag is what made it happen.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    [Quote]
    If I read this correctly, the pats got nothing for Matt Cassel.

    My interpretation then is that this deal was done some time around the day Pioli left the pats or before.

    Pioli tells Belichick he wants matt. Belichick agrees to lock him up with the tag with these caveats. 1. He's got to know Brady is healthy enough to go next year. 2. He has the right to back out if an outlandish offer is made on Cassell by another team. It did not transpire so KC took Cassell without having to negotiate for him as a free agent.

    If the story above is true, Belichick in this case truly took care of his own which is what he wanted and did not care about getting something for Cassell.
    [/Quote]




    In other words, if your own personal assumptions are correct, than BB got "nothing", and just took care of Pioli. I guess you consider the 34th overall pick as "nothing". Do you really believe that BB was instead offered the 12th overall pick...and turned it down? If hes' bent on taking care of his own, why not take care of Josh McDaniels in Denver?

    As for Vrabel, the Pats preferred trading him, rather than releasing him. By trading him, they saved over $3mil. on the cap, which they used to resign James Sanders...who they otherwise would have lost. Besides, if they released him, he would have ended up with their chief divisional rival, the NY Jets.

    At the end of each season, BB carefully evaluates each player. Clearly, the soon to be 34 year old Vrabel, like Rosevelt Colvin the year before, had declined. To paraphrase Bill Walsh, "I rather get rid of a declining player a year too soon, than a year too late".

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    [Quote][/Quote]

    No, you didn't read it correctly....the Pats got a #2 pick in the second round for Cassel and Vrable.[/Quote]


    Really? Here is the quote:

    "KC stepped up and took him on Friday for the proverbial pick to be named later which was really CAP space or cash to us...When Cassel was traded we tidied up the pick to be named later by linking it to the #2."

    Nowhere in the comments did it mention the pats compensation for Cassell. All this says to me is that the deal was set up to essentially give KC a nearly exclusive shot at the deal unless an outrageous offer was made that could not be turned down.[/Quote]





    Are you seriously arguing that the Pats got the 34th overall pick just for a formerly great, but clearly fading, 34 year old LB? Surely you jest.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Yes it is clear. As clear as air. As long as you stop editing out the word "linking."

    It says the pick to be named later, ie, Vrabel, was tidied up, by linking it to the #34 which was for Cassel.

    Again. I am realy at wits end trying to understand how anything else could possibly within reason be inferred there.

    It mentions Cassel clearly, obviously.

    He is the #34, Vrabel is the PTBNL, and they just connected the two in what was an obivous salary dump of Vrabel and a first/best offer deal for Cassel.

    Please, show me where it says that Vrabel is a #34.

    "When Cassel was traded we tidied up the pick to be named later (sic, which was for Vrabel) by linking it to the #2 (sic, which is for Cassel) on Saturday. There never was going to be a pick later."

    The word linking, linking, linking. As in they linked the PTBNL to the #34 which was going for Cassel.

    Believe me, my entire life is devoted to parsing sentences and evaluating meaning. I have taught literature and english at the college level for the past seven years. I have edited legal documents as a moonlight for the past five. And I have taught Aristotalean logic classes that define and analyze propositions like this.

    Vrabel was already dealt for a PTBNL. That happened day one. When Cassel was dealt on day two -- for the second rounder -- NE eliminated the PTBNL by linking the two deals.

    Your reading implies that Vrabel's pick was linked to Vrabel's pick, unless you are just going to ignore the word linking and call it a day? I cannot see any way that Vrabel's pick could be linked to Vrabel's pick, which is the logical incorrect reading you are forcing on this.

    Vrabel's pick was linked to Cassel's deal when Cassel was traded for the #2. It is so simple. How are you reading it any other way?

    Like I said in my last post. Logically there is only one way this could be speculated, and that is that the Cassel + Vrabel deal didn't happen together and Ne threw in Vrabel. But in reality it was probably negotiated together so Ne could execute a salary dump.

    NE keeps Vrabel from the Jets and Fins, just in case. But Ne essentially gets to get rid of his salary as if he were cut, which is what they probably wanted. Win. Win. They don't need any compensation for Vrabel, because they just wanted to remove him from the division while clearing his salary to get younger.

    NE gets a borderline first for Cassel, which is what the conservative pundits were assuming to being with (i.e., Reiss).

    There is no collusion. BB doesn't help out rivals by sending them free QBs. And Pioli isn't going to surrender a #34 for Vrabel. What you are saying makes zero sense on any semantic, syntactic, logical and business sense that could be explored.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Once again I miss out on whatever you guys are talking abotu because i simply do not watch, read, or listen to ESPN...ever for any reason. So I have no idea what was said about the Pats other then what i read on this forum. This was a great deal, the only issue i had with it is we should have gotten at least a 4th rounder for Vrabel. But now we have 3 2nd round picks which means we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. We can move up if we want, we can trade a 2nd round pick for a pick in next years draft if we want or we can stay put and draft 5 players in the first 3 rounds and not only get younger but add alot of of very good talent to this team. This draft could be the best draft of teh belichick era and if it is it happened after Pioli was out of town.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    TP - I cannot make assumptions for you so they can be only mine. They are my observations. Discount them if you desire.

    Per my comments, according to the information you cited, the 34th pick was for Vrabel. NE Insider cites no information in the text you posted that the compensation garnered was for cassel.

    The compensation cited was for the "pick to be named later" which was specifically attached in the text to the Vrabel trade.

    Per your original thread post, no 1st round pick was offered for cassel, so if I am taking the post at its words then the #12 was not offered.

    IMO - per my posts, the Cassel arrangement was agreed to between Pioli and Belichick long before FA was opened, and Pioli got there first. In this situation, Belichick cannot take care of 2 of his former lieutenents when they both want the same player. You can't split that player in half. I think Pioli got there first and had a deal ready.

    I don't disagree with anything Belichick did. He dumped salary, got a pick, and gave a player to one of his own who had served him faithfully for years.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    Will be interesting to see how the Broncos deal with ESPN, also as more Pats coaches and front office join other teams will they start building a wall like the Pats do against ESPN. Overall I think the whole leak job was false from the start. Just ESPN as usual trying to stir the pot. The whole trade was based on finances. For the Pats it cleared 18M from the Cap. Now we can start pursuing free agents and renegoiate expiring contracts. So when you look at the complete picture whatever free agents you pick up plus if we can negotiate a new contract for Wilfork, Mankins, and/or Seymour could also be factored into the trade since they couldn't be performed with the cap money all tied up. Last you have to believe that BB has total confidence in Tom Brady being ready for training camp. Lets face it nobody knows the status of Brady better than the Patriots.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    NE Insider Sets Record Straight on Cassel Trade

    [Quote]




    Are you seriously arguing that the Pats got the 34th overall pick just for a formerly great, but clearly fading, 34 year old LB? Surely you jest.[/Quote]

    Tex,

    Of course he is. This is UD when he is at his worst. He is trying to twist this obvious scenario to make it seem like a.) NE made a mistake in franchising Cassel, and b.) BB is colluding to help his erstwhile comrade, who is now actually a rival.

    So NE is colluding and made a mistake. Two contradictory insinuations that he is making. The fact that NE played both well isn't possible for him.

    Effectively cutting Vrabel to a bad team (which is what NE did) that won't vie for a playoff spot during his short shelf life, and dealing Cassel on day one for a borderline first really messes with UD's plans, which included NE being tied up with Cassel and Brady not making it back on time.

    So a solid fall back is trying to work the words of an article into some weird conclusion where NE gets a #34 for a washed up OLB, and KC gets a free QB. And (most importantly) BB looks like a bad guy who runs his team like a corrupt politician.

    But he can't change the facts. Ne got rid of Vrabel, without him going to MIA or NJ, and they dealt Cassel in time to make some solid FA moves, AND got one of the most desirable picks in the draft.

    Yeah the low first high second is great, there is at least one article where BB talks about how it is his favorite spot to draft. Top-tier talent as rock bottom risk. And the Vrabel cut pays for whoever they take at #34 for the next few years!

    What is not to like? Unless you are a Colts fan, of course.
     

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