1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Maybe not just a virtue, patience could be the single most important virtue to the implementation of the Sox short and long term strategy. Patience means sticking with Bucholz, who had a great day today and is progressing and maturing this Spring Training. Patience means supporting Jacoby, a tremendous young talent who has so much game and is such a joy to watch. Patience means giving Jed Lowrie time to get healthy and develop. Patience means ensuring that our new cadre of stars like Youk, Dustin and Lester reap the full benefit of their contributions to this great franchise, not just guys who have made their mark elsewhere and come to town as pre packaged all stars. And patience is in holding on to our top players who are not yet part of the top 25 -- Anderson, Reddick, Tazawa, Bowden and Bard. Be patient, Boston. Don't fall prey to the quick fix.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Dabro your point is well taken if by being patient you don't mean just accepting losing seasons, because you're paralyzed(or cheap!) and refuse to make the necessary changes to help the team. I'm all in favor of giving youth time to develope.

    But the Red Sox are an elite team in Baseball, and to whom much is given, much is required. The fans in the Nation deserve a chance to win EVERY season because we support our team like no other fans in the game. And that sometimes means making trades as needed to ensure a shot at a ring.

    This very year I expect that we will be faced with trading some of our youth at the deadline. It's a path I strenuously pleaded with this management not to take, but by refusing to add via free agency they have sealed their fate. They could have saved ALL of our youth by simply spending money. The question now is whether that decision will actually cost them more money in the long term, because we'll be trading top tiered prospects that may have lowered team costs for years to come. But what's done is done.

    I believe it will be quite clear that we need a STUD bat in our line-up by the trading deadline. They will be forced to make a deal-or to publicly be revealed for the chumps who by dereliction of duty, cost us the 2009 season. There will be no middle ground to hide in.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Other teams have this kind of patience too. They just call it the Minor Leagues.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roast1999. Show Roast1999's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    I've seen you post things like this in other areas, Teakus, and I just don't buy your assertion of the Red Sox being cheap. Who did you want them to sign? Obviously Tex. A) They offered him a TON of money and he declined. B) They probably could have offered him more, and I don't think he would have accepted it.

    So who did you want? Dunn? Do you think he was going to be OK with coming off the bench? That's what he would have needed to do. I just don't get your assertion that the Red Sox were cheap this offseason, just because they didn't go out and sign superstars. You don't have to spend tons of money to have success. The signings the Sox made were smart ones in my opinion, and aren't lengthy, lucrative deals.

    If the Red Sox have a middle of the pack offense, they are still going to be a serious threat for the World Series.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Dabro- It is indeed a virtue. And it is indeed the hallmark of the current organization of the Red Sox. And it is indeed the reason why (Teakus) we are in a position to win every year. Luckily, while many of the most ardent posters here have absolutely no concept of patience, the actual management of the Red Sox does. Teakus, if we have to give up top prospects to get a bat before the deadline, so be it. But, the reason we will be in a situation to get someone good for them is because we have protected the farm studs and not given them away in knee-jerk deals. If a move is required mid-season, the Sox can make it happen precisely because of the patience and restraint shown by management.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from keepmanny7. Show keepmanny7's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    what do you mean by stud bat? they have the mvp in the 2-hole and one of the other top 4 vote-getters probably hiting cleanup. just because you like to see guys with numbers like 40 HRs and 130 RBIs in their hitting stats when they step up doesnt mean they are required to win. and ortiz may still be capable of that anyway.

    trivia: who led the 1998 Yankees (the best team of their dynasty) in HRs and how many did he have?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from campp. Show campp's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    hey- i want some of that coffee you`re drinking...BUT you speak the truth. something very SPECIAL is at work in side the boston red sox, which is producing studs like youk, pedroia, papelbon etc etc lars anderson etc etc...whatever "it is", i hope brian cashman is unable to figure "it" out anytime soon. theo, larry, tom and john henry deserve our sincere thanks for giving us such a great product...no matter how this season turns out. the red sox truely are a community affair. [we`ve come long way since 1965..dave morehead or no dave morehead!]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from smiley-beni-2817. Show smiley-beni-2817's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Congratulation Dabro! You´re very
    objective. And by the way... don´t
    pay attention to "Seabeachedfred-1", he´s
    a very low class people. You just
    keep telling us the truth.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    I don't disagree with the idea that we could use another strong bat. On the other hand, if I were to prioritize I would place that acquisition below what was accomplished -- developing a potential rotation that is 8 men deep, developing a bullpen that is also potentially 8 men deep, beefing up the bench, and signing our young talent to long term deals. That said, sure I would like another bat as long as it fit in with the Sox overall criteria -- OBP, ability to contribute in many ways, etc. Also, I would like to see the long term catcher issue addressed. That in my mind is even more important than the bat. But overall I think this team can compete this year, win 95 games, and if things fall into place, compete in the playoffs. Regarding me being a supporter of Theo, I'm not sure what you want me to say. I have been a Sox fan since 1967 and I waited a long, long time to see the Sox set up for success. Now that I have my two world series rings, thanks to this ownership / management team / manager & coaching staff, what am I supposed to do -- wish for the bad old days? Thanks but no thanks. I'll take the new Red Sox who, as Joe Torre pointed out in countless interviews, have completely changed their strategy in the past 6 years to the detriment of the boys from the boogie down.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from evil12. Show evil12's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    To Answer your trivia question about who led the 1998 Yanks in homers.....It was Tino Martinez with 28 round trippers, Bernie Williams was second with 26, followed by Strawberry and the biggest crybaby ever Paul O'Neil with 24 a piece.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from keepmanny7. Show keepmanny7's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    thanks, evil. that just goes to show that you dont need some beast hitting homers every 12 at bats to be a great team. you need pitching and offensive balance.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Those 1990's yankees teams are exemplary models for winning teams. I like your comments. When you look back at those teams, what do you see -- solid starting pitching, exceptional middle relief / set up / closer, many solid multi-dimensional role players, a lot of players in their primes, a lot of players who hit for average and hit in the clutch, and lots of young talent to juice the whole thing, along with a very talented manager / coaching staff.

    Hmmmmm.......Sounds familiar -- a little bit like the 2003-2009 Red Sox!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PSFever. Show PSFever's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Patience is only a virtue if it helps our team. Signing Youk, Pedroia and hopefully Lester of course are all good moves, as is developing and promoting kids from the farm. If the season breaks down because of guys like Mike, Smoltz, Penny, Baldelli, Kotsay, Papi, Drew, Wakefield or Tek because of age, health or not wanting to trade a prospect or two to help our future now "not later" then it's a failure.

    There can be a fine line between Patience, Pride and Stubborness. We also know a team on paper isn't necessarily the same team on the field.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    We have 2 starting position players (Lowell and Varitek) who are 35 plus. We have 2 starting position players who are in that 32-34 borderline stage (Ortiz and Drew) and everyone else is in their prime. We are 8 deep in terms of potential starting pitchers and the same for relief pitchers. We have 3 proven closers (Paps, Saito and Smoltz!). My point is that age wise the team has almost a perfect mix. In terms of injury, yeah, some guys are coming off injuries. And? All 30 MLB teams have key guys coming off of injuries. So what is your point? The big picture is this: We have so much depth to the 25 and 40 man roster that several guys could go down for chunks of the year and we could compete. I think we are deeper than last year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PSFever. Show PSFever's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Dabro your projecting our success on what you see on paper, thats my point. It's great to be optomistic but I doubt the majority of our fans will agree we can still compete with a healthy Yankee or Rays team if a few of our key guys go down in the starting lineup. Baldelli with his health issues and Kotsay coming off surgery probably couldn't sufficiently replace any of our starting OF's, or Papi long term without hurting our offense. Tek and Bard need to produce against right hand pitching to support our offense, regardless of what some think. Our starting pitching looks strong but only if a lot of question marks work in our favor. Our bullpen is deep and our young arms are pitching well in spring training but they have yet to face pressure, or an every day starting lineup.

    Yes we appear to have a good team but there are a lot of things that need to fall into place, otherwise we could be the third place finisher. I love Theo and stick by him but this season falls strictly on his shoulders after an "off season" of risk taking to save money and prospects.

    Hopefully we have a great season
    !
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    [Quote]To Answer your trivia question about who led the 1998 Yanks in homers.....It was Tino Martinez with 28 round trippers, Bernie Williams was second with 26, followed by Strawberry and the biggest crybaby ever Paul O'Neil with 24 a piece.[/Quote]

    In fact, none of their four recent WSC teams ever had a hitter with over 30 HRs. In fact, they didn't have a dominant offense at all. They finished 9th, 1st, 3rd, and 6th in offense in those four years. That's not even in the top 1/3 on average.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Yes we appear to have a good team but there are a lot of things that need to fall into place, otherwise we could be the third place finisher.

    We have the best talent in BB. Anything can happen to us, just as anything can happen to our opposition. Already, ARod is due to miss 40 games. That's part of BB. If they can lose ARod for 40 games, we can afford to lose one of our guys for 40 games. If they can trade for a replacement, then we can trade for a replacement. If we lose 4 guys on offense and 2 SPs and 3 RPs, we'll lose.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    I agree that the Rays are formidable. Regarding the Yanks, take a pen and paper and make a list of yankee question marks. It is a truly staggering list. So I am not sure what your point is. Every team has lengthy lists of question marks, including the Sox. I am optimistic we will compete this season and win a lot of games. As far as winning it all, who the heck knows? That is why they play the season!
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    The Sox haven't been proven to be cheap-yet. And please understand that it is my profound hope that it NOT happen. If they choose to trade for a much needed bopper before the deadline, they would simply have chosen a different path to success than I recommended. It is their perogative to do so. But understand that when evaluating a players value much more goes into the equation than simply his salary structure. Teixiera was actually a bargain when you considered that his signing would allow us to keep ALL of our top tiered prospects, mitigating salary cost increases for years to come. Yes he was overpriced-but such is life when you are THE stud player available in free agency. The hand simply was stronger for his side than ours. In past and hopefully future years it was the Sox who held the trump cards.To SpacemanEephus+others I ask you to understand that nobody has been more vocal about not trading our youth away than I. But now we are going to be forced to do exactly that it would seem.

    I have painstakenly explained that the "Red Sox Way" from 2003-2008 was to have a strong youthful foundation, some cheaper journeyman dice roll type players, and the STUD pieces needed to solidify the offense. We have never won a world series...ever...without having at least two STUD bats in our line-up. Stud appears to require explanation here, because many want to label Pedroia a stud, or Lowell a stud. These are great players (and Pedey is my current FAV Red Sox player), but these are not true studs. Ryan Howard? STUD. Pujols? STUD. Arod? STUD. Ortiz+Manny in their prime? STUDS. Now don't get distracted because I used the M word, just stay focused on my point. We lost approx. 20% of studliness value by exchanging Bay for Manny (and gained a much better person, as I have said). But we also face other serious concerns. David Ortiz has declined 3 yrs in a row, and precipitously in the past two yrs. I estimate his current stud value to be 65-70% of his peak value 3 yrs ago. We also must understand that Youkie had a CAREER year which at age 32 he's not likely to repeat. He's gonna have a great yr. IMO, but to expect a repeat is unrealistic. Lowell is looking surprisingly healthy, but must still be considered a risk to miss time. Drew? 'nuff said there. The guy has a major back problem and WILL miss significant playing time this season.

    Ok-no need for overkill here I think you have my point. We NEED a bonecrushing, awe inpiring Big Bat. Theo+Henry are at least as smart as I, and clearly have more access to insider info. So they must have agreed with my assessment, right? YES. They most certainly did, as evidenced by their attempt to trade for Hanley Ramirez less than 3 weeks after the Tex deal died. So we are all on the same page, Sox management and I, about the teams needs. The question was what to do about it. I wanted to sign Tex, then Dunn when it appeared Lowell would miss more time, then Abreu when Drew's back reports started coming in. Again, all these players have problems but we do not get to choose the free agency list. But they are all gone now, water under the bridge as it were, and trades are all we have for improving the team. I believe it will be necessary by the deadline, some here do not. One side will be proven right and the other wrong.

    The final proof of Red Sox managements willingness to do what's right for this team this year will be what moves they make, if any, at the deadline. I am hoping to sing their praises loudly if they do what it takes to land the stud we need. Remember, we have all agreed, Theo, John+I, about our teams need as described above. If they allow the need to go unfilled they will deserve criticism because they will be allowing us to miss a shot at the ring to save a buck. If they get the stud we need, the only question would be if in the long run it was worth it financially to trade away 3 or more top tiered prospects to land him. So there you have it. My take on things. I don't give a rats patooey about winning this argument, I only want us to have a shot at winning it all this and every year. Let's all see how things go down shall we?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    I would rather trade for the right player / "bat" than sign the wrong bat through free agency. There are solid reasons for why very few teams were interested in Dunn, Abreu, etc. The Sox will bolster their position players over the next one or two years. They will not stand pat. But what they do depends on how Lowell, Ortiz and Drew look in June and July. Look, these guys are all very good players with records of accomplishment and world series rings. We need to see a little bit more in terms of how they respond to injury and age before we take them out of the equation. More important for a bat then me is getting a catcher of the future. We know that Varitek is not part of the future, just a transitional guy now, so let's address it asap.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    [Quote]I would rather trade for the right player / "bat" than sign the wrong bat through free agency. There are solid reasons for why very few teams were interested in Dunn, Abreu, etc. The Sox will bolster their position players over the next one or two years. They will not stand pat. But what they do depends on how Lowell, Ortiz and Drew look in June and July. Look, these guys are all very good players with records of accomplishment and world series rings. We need to see a little bit more in terms of how they respond to injury and age before we take them out of the equation. More important for a bat then me is getting a catcher of the future. We know that Varitek is not part of the future, just a transitional guy now, so let's address it asap.[/Quote]



    I agree about our need for a catcher bro, and think most agree there. But let me ask you one very direct question. Do you think Red Sox management should do what it takes THIS SEASON AND EVERY SEASON to make it to the World Series? I don't want to misread you, but it almost seems by your post that you are prepared to wait "one or two years" to address our teams needs. If by this seasons trading deadline it is apparent that we need to make a trade to compete, as I believe is likely, are you willing to pull the trigger-even if it means adding salary now? That is the ultimate crux of our discussion.

    Let me also say, not that I believe you would do this, but any suggestions that I want to win it all now at the expense of our ability to compete in future years would be false. I believe that properly managed teams of elite status like our beloved Red Sox should be able to have short, medium, and long term planning that allows for a competitive team EVERY season. Just to make that perfectly clear. I await your response, and appreciate the intelligent and civil discourse.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Well, sure I would be happier if we had a top notch in your prime catcher. On the other hand, if you take the Yankees for example, they have glaring fundamental / structural weaknesses at many positions / roster areas. They decided to invest basically in starting pitching so they should be good, but they have huge holes. Does that mean their off season was an abysmal failure? Probably not. And neither was ours.

    As far as winning the world series, I am pretty consistent on this:
    1) The goal is to win 95 per year
    2) The goal is to make the playoffs
    3) The goal is to build a team that is deep and varied enough so that after playing a ridiculous 162 games we have something left in the tank for the playoffs
    I think we have put ourselves in the position to achieve these goals. Does that mean we will win a world series? Who the heck knows? There are many variables in baseball, there are 30 teams, there are several elite teams, and lady luck has a heck of a lot to do with it. I would love to win a world series every year. But that is not an attainable goal. I think it is just important to never sacrafice the long and medium term at the expense of the short term. There are always trade offs, always. I think the Sox are super mindful of this. I think the Yankees fans suffer alot because they are actually only focussed on the short term. In NY, it is win it all every year or nothing. That fosters really bad baseball strategy, certainly not one that Gene Michael implemented in the 90s.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    Well Dabro I agree with much you say, but vigorously disagree with you on this off seasons FO performance for the reasons I've cited above. They didn't fix what most can see needed fixing, and have now left a trading deadline trade as our only option for having a shot at a ring this season. Regardless, the proof will be in the proverbial pudding. When the deadline approaches all will be revealed. If by the deadline my prognostications prove correct and we need that Big Bat, will this management group spend the resources necessary to acquire him/them? Or will continued cost savings be the order of the day, at the expense of on the field performance? We'll all find out together. I assure you the Nation will be watching closely, and this ownership group will be held accountable for it's decisions.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Patience Is A Virtue

    [Quote]Well Dabro I agree with much you say, but vigorously disagree with you on this off seasons FO performance for the reasons I've cited above. They didn't fix what most can see needed fixing, and have now left a trading deadline trade as our only option for having a shot at a ring this season. Regardless, the proof will be in the proverbial pudding. When the deadline approaches all will be revealed. If by the deadline my prognostications prove correct and we need that Big Bat, will this management group spend the resources necessary to acquire him/them? Or will continued cost savings be the order of the day, at the expense of on the field performance? We'll all find out together. I assure you the Nation will be watching closely, and this ownership group will be held accountable for it's decisions.[/Quote]

    While I agree that the nation will be watching, how much will we hold them accountable if they don't make the move for a big bat? Theo's history is one of risk taking at the deadline, 2004 working out well, 2007 working out despite the failures of Gagne. In this economy, I think the big bat will be available in July if the Sox need that.

    As many have said, there are many ways to win. I can recite many championship teams that had weak spots in the lineup. To me, Tek is the weakest spot coming off last year. Lugo can always make up for some of his weaknesses with speed. That said, 1-7, we appear to be stacked. Papi had an off year in 2008. Many players in the league would take his stats everyday and twice on Sunday.
     
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