1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    First of all, this is a negative post. If you don't like listening to critical opinions of the Pats- don't read it.

    I was thinking about the Mike Vrabel situation and realized that pretty much everybody from the glory days is gone. What have we got left? Brady and Belichick? And let's be honest Bill has been outcoached several times over the last few years- most notably in the Superbowl against the Giants. And Tom, while he has gotten better, has developed much more of a gunslinger mentality. Which negates his gretest asset- his brain.

    We can only replace so many people before the identity of the team completely transforms. And it has. Talent aside, it seems like the defense lost it's balls when RAC left. And does anybody think, as irritating as he could be at times, that Charlie Weiss wouldn't have made the proper adjustments and hung at least 28 on the Giants in the SB.

    What happened to physical? It seems like press coverage has gone out the window. I am sick of all the other team's WRs looking so comfortable. When was the last time an opposing WR was afraid to go across the middle against us?

    I hate to keep going back to the Giants game, but the old Pats never would have lost that game. They didn't call him Big Play Willie Clay for nothing. Or Ty Law, Bruschi when he was still at full strength, Rodney when he was still healthy. They always seemed to come up with a play. Does anybody think that Ty Law would have dropped that pass to win the Superbowl? That's what happens when you replace an elite playmaking corner with one that is simply good. Year after year they shed clutch playmakers like Troy Brown. You can only lose so many of those.

    Or even last year. Yes Tom Brady missed the season, but they weren't going to do anything with the defense that Bill put on the field. You can talk all you want about them missing the playoffs. But they missed it by one game. After giving up 41 points, or whatever it was, to the Jets. I didn't get to see the game becuse the NFL hates it's fans. But there is absolutely NO excuse for giving up that many points to the Jets.

    Then there is the supposed genius of Bill. He essentially cut one of the Pats top 3 defensive players in Vrabel so that he could spend the money on an injury prone running back over 30. Yet everyone seems to be ok with this. Don't even get me started on the Caldwell experiment that cost us a Superbowl. Maybe it wasn't a great idea to overpay for a SB MVP, but I'm also guessing that Bill could have done better than Caldwell. People can trot out the "In Bill We Trust" crap if they want, but he hasn't won anything in 4 years. And maybe I'm forgetting somone. But outside of Mayo, when was the last time they nailed a draft pick?

    Maybe Spings and Bodden really produce this year and they sign Taylor, the defense stops playing back on it heels and gets more aggressive and they find a steal or two in the draft. I would love to see that happen. It's going to have to. You can't win a championship without a good defense.

    If it doesn't, they are in trouble. I don't think this offense is as good as everybody thinks it is. The OLine is very overrated. I will never forgive them for the tankjob they pulled in the Superbowl 2 years ago. Maroney is an absolute bust. You people can talk about his head all you want. I don't think he has the physical tools either. Taylor is old and injury prone. They have no real pass catching TE. We really don't know what precent Brady is going to be at. They have no third reciever. Welker is nice. I love Moss, but he reminds a bit of Marvin Harrison- I'm not sure he's built for playoff football if you know what I mean.

    All that said, I think the Pats have a chance to be a pretty good football team. But that's all they are. There's nothing special about them anymore. They don't feel like a championship caliber team anymore. What do you guys think? Am I just being too negative?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Over?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    I remember people saying this all the time about the 49er's back in their hey day 1981-1998. They changed that team over a couple times and were pretty much always in the Super Bowl hunt. You can look at the negative aspect in every team and every player. Then you can flip it and look at all the postives and overestimate. My guess the Pats are in transition and gearing up to be competitive for the next 5+ years and hopefully bring back some more Lombardi trophies back to Foxborough. I really feel if we had Brady last year we would have had just as good of shot as anyone in the AFC to win that Super Bowl.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from philbert. Show philbert's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    First, Thanks Prairemike for that link, that waa a great movie. Second, daf, this team is a still a very good team, with three good offfensive weapons in brady, moss and welker and a very good Dline with warren, wilfork and seymore. They have the draft picks to shore up the linebacker and secondary corps with very good talent in a year that by reports is deep in both areas.

    One thing BB needs to do is draft well. I think that some of the criticism about some of the past drafts is valid, with 2006 looking like a good case in point. But it's way too early to say the dynasty is over. I think there is one or two more rings left before that.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    i think they are just reloading we have 6 picks on the first day of the draft and recently picked up 2 good CB's in the FA and the blocking TE we have missed for years. In the draft i see us picking up at least 2 OL, a safety, and a DE to eventually replace seymore (i don't see us resigning him at 9 million a year) instead we resign wilfork to a long term deal. taylor gives us a hard hitting RB to compliment maroney's speed similar to dillion/maroney or johnson/lendale white combinations. We have a solid core of veterans with a large group of rookies after this draft. we are gonna be reset for another 10 years of superbowl contention. We also happen to have the best coach in the NFL, the best QB, and arguably the best WR. so over, no not at all....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Matt Light, Richard Seymour, Kevin Faulk, and Bruschi were all there back in 2001. Am I missing anyone?

    I see the Pats being contenders for a long time. Calling it a dynasty or not I do not care.

    You cant win the SB every year, but the Patriots have come as close as anyone over the past 8 years.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1r3d12. Show m1r3d12's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Its just beginning. One game at a time, looking forward to 2009.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Zchowdary. Show Zchowdary's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    I think you are watching the sb dvds and getting too emotional about the players. We all miss those days but the way to keep a dynasty going is to keep refreshing the team. It's not just the players that make a dynasty, its the whole package. We can't just name the pats dynasty to players like Ty Law and WillieMac. The New England Patriots are truly a special team. To win 3 of 4 Sbs, make AFC title game, go 16-0, nearly become something unreal(18-1), and still be the vegas favorites for 09(without our FA pickups like Bodden) over a decade in this " All teams have a chance" Era of the NFL is truly mindboggling. Look at the colts, they r in cap hell now, they tried to pay their way to greatness, but the Pats? Its the whole package baby. They did it with average players who looked great then, and now their refreshing the D back to Championship level. Even after Brady is gone, they will still be a contender, as seen this past season with all the injuries no other team could possibly handle. We were close to having TWO more SBs the past 3 years, and every year they go in with a team that has a better shot than 29 other teams to win it all...These are the New England Patriots, the last year in, year out Superpower the NFL will ever see, at least until BB and Kraft and probably Brady are here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    This is a very good football team. To say the '04 Pats would have beaten the '08 Giants is inane , futile speculation and for the record the 08 Giants D Line is better than the Pats 04 D Line. The hardest thing to accomplish in the NFL is to be consistently good. The shcedule, the structure of the draft, the salary cap and free agency make for competitive balance. Competetive balance is just another way to say "you won't this good forever ". This team was a TD away from winning its 4th Super Bowl this decade.

    I do think the Pats have lost and really never compensated for two players. Willie Mc Ginest and Ty Law. The Pats have not had as good a pass rushing OLB/DE as Mc Ginest since he left. Asante was good in coverage, but he did not play as physical as Law did. No one team gets its vets picked over quite like the Pats (Samuels, Gay, Wilson); take a good look at the contracts these former Pats got and you'll realise that it would be next to impossible to keep these players Patriots and remain under or at the cap. The schedule the Pats had in 07/08 saw them face five playoff teams during the regular season and they still went undefeated until the SB. A fluke statistical anomoly occured (and that coupled with divisional alignment) and the Pats failed to make the playoffs despite having an 11-5 record with a back-up QB as starter. Does anyone think the Colts can win 10 games with Jim Sorgi at QB for the entire year ?

    Players change, schedules change, coaches change, and rules change. The point is you have to adapt. If can win roughly 70 % of your games, despite changes, you're doing remarkably well.

    I still think this current incarnation of the Pats has some deficiencies; best rectified by acquiring players (Draft or Free Agency) that can best help the team win a Super Bowl. I don't think anything is over. You just do the best you can to remain competitive and it's not an accident that the Pats are high on the list of teams predicted to win the Super Bowl year after year; they are pretty good.

    How can an offense that surpassed the scoring record, against the aforementioned competition, be overated ? Because too many of the offensive linemen made the pro bowl ? That makes no sense. Brady finally had a decent receiving corps and he crushed the single season TD record. That offense is still intact with some minor FA losses and gains.

    What you see happening over the 08 draft will continue with 09 draft; the Pats will continue to address deficiencies on O and on D.

    Football is a business and like any other business it has employee turnover. As long as the Patriots organization can continue to acquire great players that function well within their system I don`t see them going 8-8 any time soon.

    Call it a dynasty in ten years. No one called the Steelers a dynasty in 1978.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Daf,

    First of all, I think your post is full of crap! You can't live in the past as players get old, skills, diminish, and yes-player turnover occurs. That said, the Patriots have had problems on defense during the past few seasons which I attribute to poor tackling. Case in point (I'll use your example of the SB against the Giants), we had them on 4th down needing to make a miracle play. I don't blame Rodney for the Tyree catch; I blame the D-line that had like 3 or 4 players all with hands on Eli and yet he was allowed to wrestle havhimself away from pathetic arm tackles and make a great play. That should never have happened, but it did.

    This is why, we need to get younger on defense because I attribute some of the poor tackling to our defense playing "not to get hurt" by not throwing their bodies around. I'd also like to bring up the fact that we have blown a draft or two with some bad picks. However, do I think the dynasty is over? Hell no!!!! The Pats have been to one SB, one AFC championship game against the Colts (which they could have won) & I dare you to say that this isn't a team that doesn't figure to be in the SB hunt year in and year out.

    Once re-tooled, I fully expect us to win another SB or two. Hell, they almost accomplished this with lesser talent a la year of the Caldwell experiment as you put it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    I’m listening but I still can’t hear anything.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Brady a gunslinger? Isn't a gunslinger a quarterback who throws the ball around carelessly? Brady had eight interceptions to go with his fifty touchdown passes in 2007. I think that is a remarkable statistic. He set a record for touchdown pass-interception differential that it is hard to see ever being broken. He takes remarkable care of the ball. (Lifetime he has 197 touchdown passes and 86 interceptions.) He's the opposite of the Favre, the quintessential gunslinger, who has 310 interceptions to go along with his 464 touchdown passes.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Daf great post if you are Jets fan which we are not. I don't know where to start so I'll just say this, BB is not perfect I think we can agree to that but name any coach you rather have? Because ask just about any other team's fans and most will say give us BB for a season.
    Can you name a QB that you rather have when the game is on the line? No I think Brady will be as good as he has been since he took over for Drew.
    Players come and go, we can't keep guys playing on wheel chairs. The 2007 giants came into that game full of confidence and took it to the Pats, we didn't have the answer to all that blitzing.
    I love knowing every year we are going to have a better chance than most to reach the SB and this will continue for many many years to come. We are loading up and with this year's draft we will have the youth needed on D to be that great D we all remember. The jets are looking for some fans, I'm sure they'll love to have you.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    [Quote] Case in point (I'll use your example of the SB against the Giants), we had them on 4th down needing to make a miracle play. I don't blame Rodney for the Tyree catch; I blame the D-line that had like 3 or 4 players all with hands on Eli and yet he was allowed to wrestle havhimself away from pathetic arm tackles and make a great play. That should never have happened, but it did.[/Quote]

    Yes, the D-line had him, but it was not Eli breaking those tackles. He had a whole lot of help from his offensive line pulling Patriot players off of him, but that is only a penalty if the refs throw the flags. The Giants got away with a lot, yet nobody gives them any credit for that.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedyaz2. Show tedyaz2's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    They were never a dynasty!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedyaz2. Show tedyaz2's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    How can cheaters be considered a dynasty?.....since they got away with it for so long?

    The Pats will always have an ** next to their SB wins!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from trollslayer. Show trollslayer's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    I guess the jets dynasty was over 40 years ago, and the giants couldnt start one fool!

    Do you have ** next to your IQ *1
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    [Quote]They were never a dynasty![/Quote]

    Sorry to dissapoint you kid...but 3 championships in 4 years IS a DYNASTY! LOL!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    [Quote]How can cheaters be considered a dynasty?.....since they got away with it for so long?

    The Pats will always have an ** next to their SB wins!
    [/Quote]

    Huh? Why?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Dynasty of Deceit is most accurate

    or maybe better -

    Dynasty of de-cheat! :0
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Apparently - Dynasties require cheating. Pats fans are always quick to bring up the steroid steelers, the cheating 49ers, and the cheating broncos.

    competitive teams - even those that occassionally win superbowls demonstrate that they don't need to cheat. To get to that so called dynasty stage, however, I guess it takes thinking outside the rules (I mean box).

    The bad news is that the only modern "dynasty" not break football rules (as far as we know) are the Cowboys. Sad day when that happens.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    What's a dynasty?

    I prefer to think in terms of sustained excellence.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    Oh . . .

    and before I forget . . .

    Is it over?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THFDsI0AEvc
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    [Quote]Dynasty of Deceit is most accurate

    or maybe better -

    Dynasty of de-cheat! :0[/Quote]

    LOL! Jealous Colts fan! Can't even come close to thinking his team is a Dynasty!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Pats Dynasty over?

    [Quote]

    LOL! Jealous Colts fan! Can't even come close to thinking his team is a Dynasty![/Quote]

    LOL - exasperated Pats fan! Calls out a colts fan because he has no effective rebuttal to the link between multiple championships and cheating!
     

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