1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    I know that Tex was pricey. But what will the Sox do if the three question marks, Lowell, Papi, and Drew, aren't producing? I know that Jeff bailey and Chris carter are in Pawtucket but are they enough?
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    There's no reason to go to TX at all. If Tex was interested in accepting our $168M, he could've called us. If JH was interested in offering more, we could've called him.[/Quote]

    Technically, no they didn't have to. I was just saying that in order to reel him in, they were taking the more personable, face to face business approach. I'll agree with you that I don't think the Red Sox were ever in on Santana. I think they just wanted to see the Yankees sell the farm to get him. I think they were all in on Teixeira, but they didn't want to go to $180,000,000 to get him. I don't blame them. I was for getting him at the time. I'm now glad we didn't, because I think had we gotten him, we might not have been able to extend Youk, Pedroia, and Lester (maybe).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]yeah...2 championships and 9 playoff appearances in the last 10 years really is "unsuccessful". im sooo embarrased to be a fan[/Quote]

    I'm surprised you didn't go with the 26 World Championships rebuttal. I would have. I'm just busting chops, so don't go pinestripezac on me.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roast1999. Show Roast1999's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]yeah...2 championships and 9 playoff appearances in the last 10 years really is "unsuccessful". im sooo embarrased to be a fan[/Quote]

    OK, so you are telling me that New York fans and media have found failing to win the World Series every year after 2000 despite having the highest payroll in the league fine with them? Doubtful.

    If you look back, I believe my question to Lowell was if he believes the last 8 years have been a success. That is assuming, however, that you know how to read. That may be a stretch. I didn't know you could win two World Series and make the playoffs nine times in 8 years.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    OK, so you are telling me that New York fans and media have found failing to win the World Series every year after 2000 despite having the highest payroll in the league fine with them? Doubtful.

    If you look back, I believe my question to Lowell was if he believes the last 8 years have been a success. That is assuming, however, that you know how to read. That may be a stretch. I didn't know you could win two World Series and make the playoffs nine times in 8 years.[/Quote]

    Not winning with the highest payroll was definitely a slap in the face. Yank fans are just going to come back with-you had the highest payroll to ever win a WS, which I think is funny.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]yeah...2 championships and 9 playoff appearances in the last 10 years really is "unsuccessful". im sooo embarrased to be a fan[/Quote]

    Do you really think the FO considers anything less than a WS Championship a success?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roast1999. Show Roast1999's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    Like I said to Lowell (Who is a Yankee fan I have been able to have a reasonable conversation with in the past, unlike others), I am not trying to criticize the Yankees just to criticize. My point was that while they have built a successful team in the last eight years, it hasn't been a WS-winning team, which in NY terms is indeed failure. I'm not going to say the Red Sox don't have a high payroll, because they are near the top. The Yankees are at a whole other level, and over the last eight years it hasn't paid off.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    Interesting take, but let me ask you this. As a Yankee fan, do you believe the last eight years have been a success? Since the last World Series, the Yankees have been in the playoffs all but once, but not winning is a failure in New York, right? In my opinion (not trying to be unfairly critical here), the Yankees have built themselves for regular season success, but not postseason. I think they did a better job this year, but I don't know that it's enough to change that. Like I said, not trying to be overly critical, but stating my opinion.[/Quote]

    Well, I'm not happy that they didn't win, but I don't blame that on any organizational philosophy. Free agents didn't cause Rivera to throw the ball into CF in 2001, didn't cause Torre's inept bullpen mgt in 2003, and didn't prevent them from calling a pitch out in game 4 of 2004. Without those singular events, the Yankees have 2-3 more WS and none of this conversations ever happen. The point is, the way the teams were constructed put them in positions to win the WS, but then baseball happened. Yes, there were blunders along the way, heck, check out NoMaas.org - Yankee fans have been scratching their heads at many, many moves the team made since 2002. If you understand baseball, you realinze that money can't guarantee anything, but it CAN give you more chances to be in the position to win.

    To summarize, if not for a few baseball related happening completely unrelated to team construction, the Yankees have a few more WS and crazy talk about not being able to win with FAs never happens. Plus, off topic, the Yankees have had roughly 8-10 of their 25 man roster from their system over the past years, but they still get labeled at team of high priced FAs, while completely store bought teams like the 04 sox do not. It's all perception.

    Also, Roast, feel free to lob anything my way without the qualifiers. I thkink you're a great poster and enjoy the discussion. I never take offense.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    Juxtapose the current Red Sox approach with the modern-day Yankee approach, and then consider the recent results.[/Quote]

    Both have made the playoffs the same amount of times since 2003. The results once they were in weren't due to organizational philosophies. For example, the Yankees faced a 2003 Marlin team with Beckett, Penny, Pavano, etc....the sox faced two of the worst teams to make the WS in modern history, including one whose #1 was.........Josh Fogg.

    Tell what you think the differences are between the two organizations from a philosphical standpoint. I can tell you they're not as different as you'd like to think.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]Like I said to Lowell (Who is a Yankee fan I have been able to have a reasonable conversation with in the past, unlike others), I am not trying to criticize the Yankees just to criticize. My point was that while they have built a successful team in the last eight years, it hasn't been a WS-winning team, which in NY terms is indeed failure. I'm not going to say the Red Sox don't have a high payroll, because they are near the top. The Yankees are at a whole other level, and over the last eight years it hasn't paid off.[/Quote]

    I've said the same thing in many of my posts. I'm not trying to bash the Yankees and I try to be respectful to reasonable Yank fans. However, I don't think their model, as presently constructed, has been a successful one. Look at '96-2000. Those were great teams that didn't need superstars at every position. Since then, Steinbrenner and Co. have gone on a drunken blood thirsty rampage to try to have a NY Yankee All-Star team. I just don't think that equates to a World Championship. If i'm proven wrong this year I will take my lumps. The Yankees appear to have an awesome team and an awesome new ballpark so let's see how it plays out.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    Both have made the playoffs the same amount of times since 2003. The results once they were in weren't due to organizational philosophies. For example, the Yankees faced a 2003 Marlin team with Beckett, Penny, Pavano, etc....the sox faced two of the worst teams to make the WS in modern history, including one whose #1 was.........Josh Fogg.

    Tell what you think the differences are between the two organizations from a philosphical standpoint. I can tell you they're not as different as you'd like to think.[/Quote]

    Lowell,

    In 2004 we beat your team to go on to the World Series. In 2007 we beat the same Cleveland Indian team that knocked you guys out of the playoffs. You can't say that the stars were just aligned for us and we played lousy teams in the playoffs over the past few years.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roast1999. Show Roast1999's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    I had never really thought of it that way, Lowell, in regards to the the singular events and such. I think there have also been cases where the Yankees had first-round exits that were because of their organizational strategy of being built around hitters, not pitchers. When those bats went cold, the Yanks stood no chance. This year may be a different case with CC, but I am not sold on Burnett being able to pitch a full season (one of several reasons I was hoping the Sox would stay away from him).

    Thanks for the kind words. Like I have said in the past, I often disagree with you (which should be the case when it comes to Sox/Yanks fans!) but it's usually an interesting conversation that isn't filled with insanity haha.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    *
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    Both have made the playoffs the same amount of times since 2003. The results once they were in weren't due to organizational philosophies. For example, the Yankees faced a 2003 Marlin team with Beckett, Penny, Pavano, etc....the sox faced two of the worst teams to make the WS in modern history, including one whose #1 was.........Josh Fogg.

    Tell what you think the differences are between the two organizations from a philosphical standpoint. I can tell you they're not as different as you'd like to think.[/Quote]



    The Yankee philosophy seems to be to rely too heavily on a few superstars to win it all for them, rather than finding the right combination of players without regard to the stature of those players. One year, Roger Clemens was going to save them. This year, it's Tex and CC.

    By contrast, the Sox are a TEAM, comprised of a combination of players developed in the Red Sox System and otherwise acquired. The recent success of the Red Sox can be attributed to overpriced superstar and homegrown rookie alike.


    The point is not that the Red Sox are not above occasionally overpaying for a high impact player, it's that that player is considered one piece of the puzzle, not the entire pie so to speak.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    Many have attributed the Y's recent shortcomings to being built for 162 games but not the postseason. Not quite sure what that means; I suppose if you're top heavy hitting with not enough pitching. One thing we know, you have to play well enough to be standing after 162 games. In general, you can never have enough pitching when September rolls around.
    Either way, I'd be worrried if I were the Yankees. As many as they signed, they were brought in to replace a 20-game winner and some noteworthy bats (Abreu,Giambi). Boston replaces one player of note (Crisp) and he would've been platooning at best. Paul Byrd, Colon, Schilling, Cash, Cora; nothing significant. If there's team out there that looks built for the postseason right now it has to be Boston. The Red Sox are deep where a team needs to be. Buchholz with 3 innings of hitless ball this afternoon, after what Masterson threw the other day, and those two aren't even in the rotation. And let's face it; Daniel Bard is starting to look like a dominant setup guy. From what we've seenWatching him the other day, he looks so more confident out there. So by midseason or before, they stand to add Smoltz, Buchholz, Bard, possibly Bowden to their pitching depth. And if Tazawa starts out great in Portland, who knows with that guy?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    Lowell,

    In 2004 we beat your team to go on to the World Series. In 2007 we beat the same Cleveland Indian team that knocked you guys out of the playoffs. You can't say that the stars were just aligned for us and we played lousy teams in the playoffs over the past few years.[/Quote]

    I didn't say that. I said, once you were in the WS, you had very easy matchups.

    But, since it was specifically brought up, in 2007, you played Cleveland in a best of 7 and had home field advantage. Yankees played Cleveland on the road in a short series. Big difference. Doesn't matter though, it was the results that count, and the sox got the results that year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]


    The Yankee philosophy seems to be to rely too heavily on a few superstars to win it all for them, rather than finding the right combination of players without regard to the stature of those players. One year, Roger Clemens was going to save them. This year, it's Tex and CC.
    By contrast, the Sox are a TEAM, comprised of a combination of players developed in the Red Sox System and otherwise acquired. The recent success of the Red Sox can be attributed to overpriced superstar and homegrown rookie alike.

    The point is not that the Red Sox are not above occasionally overpaying for a high impact player, it's that that player is considered one piece of the puzzle, not the entire pie so to speak.
    [/Quote]

    Since the mid 90's, the Yankees have always had a mix of expensive players and home grown talent. Same as after 2000. Think about what you just said "The red sox are a team comprised of players developed and otherwise acquired". So are the Yankees. And every other team out there. Some of the misconception with the Yankees is that 4 of their "home grown talent" BECAME high priced free agents, or "all stars for every position". They're not at fault for having to pay market value to retain them.

    The sox spent 160 million on Manny and 103 million on Matsusaka. 75 million on Drew, etc......overpaid last contract on Varitek.....etc...... I doesn't matter, both teams do it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lowell4MVP. Show Lowell4MVP's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    Why does the quote feature here sometime work perfectly, and other times gives the crappy version where it spells out "quote"?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    I didn't say that. I said, once you were in the WS, you had very easy matchups.

    But, since it was specifically brought up, in 2007, you played Cleveland in a best of 7 and had home field advantage. Yankees played Cleveland on the road in a short series. Big difference. Doesn't matter though, it was the results that count, and the sox got the results that year.[/Quote]

    And yet somehow the NL opponent ended up in the WS. The Sox were clearly superior to the Cards and Rockies, but to say they were very easy match-ups seems a little silly.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fireballer58. Show fireballer58's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]Not knowing if Lowell would recover from his hip injury and losing Manny I felt like we needed to sign Teixeira.Quote]

    Exactly how I felt. I thought that the Sox needed this signing, and when it didn't happen, the Sox made smart decisions to work with what they have by signing Lester, Pedroia, Youk...and acquisitions Baldelli, Smlotz, Penny...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]Salaries of Pedroia + Youk + Lester = Salary of Teixiera

    I think we made out well.[/Quote]

    I understand your point, but why in the name of god do you care if the Sox keep payroll down? Do you hear any Yankee fans griping they just spent 450 million signing Sabbathia, Burnett and Texiera? Henry and company are richer than dirt. He should pay for bigtime talent. It demonstrates to the players that winning matters to him. After losing Manny it was imperative he brought in some big lumber to bat behind Ortiz. Even Ortiz said the same thing. Oh well, the payroll gets trimmed and Epstein gets a bigger bonus.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Pursuing Tex a mistake

    [Quote]

    I didn't say that. I said, once you were in the WS, you had very easy matchups.

    But, since it was specifically brought up, in 2007, you played Cleveland in a best of 7 and had home field advantage. Yankees played Cleveland on the road in a short series. Big difference. Doesn't matter though, it was the results that count, and the sox got the results that year.[/Quote]

    Lowell,

    We did have home field advantage against the Indians and there were no midges, but we still won the series-barely.
     

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